Sand has refused to give us the complete interrogation statements of Kyle Bolaski and Jerry Ucci. He claims that no statements were taken from them as to all events preceeding the meeting at the field. The only statement he gave was the 1st one from that night which only details from when they are at the field, nothing about any events leading up to the field! Yet statements were taken of every other witness! In some case twice and in the case of Julie, 3 times! Why would you not take statements of the KILLER? Or the person that lured Vinnie to the field! They obviously did take statements! They are either holding them out or have deleted everything preceeding the field then gave us that altered copy. A lot of testimony came out in the trial from interview statements of Ucci that are not in the statements given to us. Bolaski and Ucci make very incriminating statements about the real events! Corey Bolaski said they were in Kyle’s truck all along and the rifles were also in the truck! Kyle says they are in his truck and says the 30-06 rifle is his!
PROLOG: THERE ARE 113 PAGES MISSING FROM THE ENTIRE GRAND JURY MINUTES GIVEN TO US AS ARE NUMEROUS PARAGRAPHS, LINES AND EVEN WITNESSES! PARAGRAPHS 1-17 OF KYLE'S TESTIMONY ARE MISSING. KYLES TESTIMONY STARTS ON LINE 19 OF PARAGRAPH 17. I WILL NOTE SOME OF THE DISCREPANCIES IN EACH TESTIMONY BETWEEN THE GRAND JURY AND ORIGINAL POLICE TESTIMONY ON A SEPARATE PAGE. I WILL NOTE THEM FROM EACH PERSON. SAND NEVER BRINGS OUT ANY OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS BROUGHT OUT AT TRIAL WHICH INCLUDED POLICE VIDEO'S, 911 TAPES, EYE WITNESSES AND MORE.)
ON THIS PAGE ARE KYLE BOLASKI'S ENTIRE GRAND JURY STATEMENTS AND HIS POLICE STATEMENTS OF HIS INTERVIEW BY OFFICER JENKINS. THE DISCREPANCIES ARE OBVIOUS AS ARE ROBERT SAND'S MANIPULATION OF THE GRAND JURY. HIS LEADING OF BOLASKI NUMEROUS TIMES THROUGHOUT THE QUESTIONING IS ALSO VERY OBVIOUS. PARAGRAPH 69, LINES 21-23 SAND OFFERS TO "STEP OUT" WITH BOLASKI! THROUGHOUT THE TESTIMONY REFERS TO VINNIE AS THE "AXE MAN" YET REFERS TO KYLE AS MR. BOLASKI! SAND LET'S KYLE GO ON AND ON, LETTING HIM SAY WHAT EVER HE WANTED, WITHOUT EVER INTERRUPTING BOLASKI OR CROSS EXAMINING HIM THROUGHOUT HIS ENTIRE TESTIMONY.
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Kyle Bolaski-GRAND JURY
19 THE WITNESS: I do.
20 BY MR. SAND:
21 Q. Would you introduce yourself, please, to the grand
22 jury?
23 A. Hello, everybody. My name is Kyle David Bolaski.
24 Q. Would you spell your last name?
25 A. B-O-L-A-S-K-I.
0018
01 Q. How are you feeling today?
02 A. A little nervous.
03 Q. Okay. So I think everyone will understand that.
04 We're in an intimate setting here, as much as you can, if
05 you try to relax, I'm going to ask you a number of
06 questions. When I'm done, members of the grand jury may
07 have some questions, as well.
08 A. Okay.
09 Q. Before we get started, I need to make sure you
10 understand that the grand jury is considering charges
11 against you; understand that?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. And do you understand that you don't have
14 to be here?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. You want to get up and leave at any point, you're
17 allowed to do that?
18 A. I'm here for the time being.
19 Q. Okay. And that any answer that you give, the
20 grand jury can consider in deciding whether charges are
21 appropriate or not against you?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And they can be used against you?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. If you need a break for any reason, whether that's
0019
01 personal or because you want to consult with someone
02 outside of our presence, let us know, and you're
03 absolutely able to do that.
04 A. Okay.
05 Q. Okay?
06 A. Yep.
07 Q. So tell us how old you are?
08 A. Twenty-four years old, I was born in January,
09 1984.
10 Q. Where did you grow up?
11 A. Springfield, Vermont.
12 Q. How old is your brother Corey?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. How old is Corey?
15 A. He's twenty-two.
16 Q. You go to school in the area?
17 A. I went to Springfield High School.
18 Q. And how far?
19 A. I graduated.
20 Q. What year did you graduate?
21 A. 2002.
22 Q. What have you done for work since graduating?
23 A. After completion of high school, I went to school
24 at U Mass Amherst. I attended Stockbridge School of
25 Agriculture at U Mass Amherst.
0020
01 Q. What did you learn at Stockbridge?
02 A. I studied turf grass management. I pursued that
03 and graduated with an associates degree in that.
04 Q. Okay. And so what kind of work have you done?
05 A. After college, I started working at golf courses.
06 I worked at golf courses throughout high school and
07 continued working at golf courses after college. I
08 worked at six golf courses in the state, as well as
09 landscaping. I've done that ever since I was about ten
10 or eleven. I'm interested in the green industry.
11 Q. In the what?
12 A. Green industry. Landscaping.
13 Q. Where are you living?
14 A. Currently live in Springfield.
15 Q. Okay. Back this past summer, where were you
16 living?
17 A. Chester.
18 Q. Whereabouts?
19 A. North Street. Mom, mom has a business, Simply
20 Country, in Chester. I rent an apartment upstairs.
21 Q. Where did your brother Corey live?
22 A. Downstairs.
23 Q. In the same building?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. And this past summer, what were you doing for
0021
01 work?
02 A. Was working at Homestead Landscaping in Stratton.
03 Q. It's fine, these are the folks who make the
04 decisions, so don't feel like you have to, I mean, if you
05 want to tell them, that's fine. I know the setup is not
06 ideal. If we were in the upstairs room, I'd stand in
07 way that you could look at all of us at the same time.
08 A. I'm just trying to get a focus.
09 Q. I know.
10 JUROR: Everyone is staring at you.
11 BY MR. SAND:
12 Q. We are not meaning to split you like that. It's
13 the reality of how long -- I know you were here
14 yesterday, and we can get done.
15 A. That's fine.
16 Q. What did I ask you -- what you doing for work this
17 past summer?
18 A. A spread technician, applying pesticides and
19 fertilizer at Homestead Landscaping.
20 Q. All right. What did Corey do for work?
21 A. Corey works at MJS Landscaping in Rockingham.
22 Q. And we met Jerry Ucci yesterday.
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. How do you know Jerry?
25 A. I met him beginning of the summer. He started at
0022
01 Homestead when I started at Homestead. And we met there.
02 He was a co-worker of mine.
03 Q. Friendship developed?
04 A. Yep.
05 Q. Are you guys close friends, good friends,?
06 A. We grew to be close friends, and he eventually was
07 living with me because he didn't have a place to live, so
08 told him he could stay at my apartment.
09 Q. Okay. Before August of this year, Mr. Bolaski,
10 did you know a person by the name of Vincent Tamburello?
11 A. No, sir, not at all.
12 Q. Ever meet him?
13 A. Never.
14 Q. Had you ever heard about him?
15 A. Never.
16 Q. When is the first time that the name Vincent
17 Tamburello popped up on your radar screen?
18 A. I heard briefly about a series of events that
19 occurred, I guess it was on Saturday, through one of my
20 friends, Gib Bastian.
21 Q. What did Gib tell you?
22 A. He said that he had knocked him out and he had to
23 go to the emergency room, and that was about it, on
24 Saturday. Wasn't too concerned with, you know, what had
25 happened. I wasn't involved so, you know, I really, it
0023
01 was an unfortunate event, but like I said, I wasn't
02 involved so --
03 Q. Who told you about what happened to Gib?
04 A. Gib.
05 Q. How did he tell you that, in person, by phone?
06 A. By phone.
07 Q. When did he tell you that?
08 A. Saturday night.
09 Q. Was that the day that he had been punched?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You know where he was when he told you that?
12 A. I think he was on the way to the emergency room.
13 Q. Who called whom?
14 A. I believe I may have called him just to see what
15 was going on. He's a friend of mine.
16 Q. Going on in general, or going on about this
17 incident?
18 A. Just called him in general.
19 Q. Other than -- this floor squeaks. I'll try to
20 stand still. I'm a natural pacer, but, sorry -- other
21 than that conversation with Gib, did you have any
22 discussion with anyone about Mr. Tamburello on Saturday?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Where did you spend Saturday night?
25 A. At my apartment.
0024
01 Q. Okay. And did anyone spend the night also at the
02 apartment?
03 A. Jerry Ucci.
04 Q. Jerry did?
05 A. Yes, sir. Like I said, he had been living there.
06 Q. Okay. You have a pet, we've learned?
07 A. Yes, his name is Harley.
08 Q. All right. Was Harley there?
09 A. Harley was there.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. He's always with me. Never leaves my side.
12 Q. What is Harley?
13 A. Harley's a Husky Border Collie mix. Year and a
14 half. He's very fast.
15 Q. Fast. We're going to walk through in some detail
16 Sunday.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. What time did you get up?
19 A. Approximately nine-thirty, ten o'clock.
20 Q. Okay. What did you do?
21 A. We had intention to be working for my father. I
22 had been working at Homestead during the week. On the
23 weekends usually I'd try to make some extra money by
24 working for my father. He had side jobs, and he had some
25 landscaping projects that we had going on at his house,
0025
01 so we went there. We did a little bit of work.
02 Q. We being who?
03 A. Jerry Ucci and myself.
04 Q. All right. So --
05 A. So we worked there for a few hours, and, you know,
06 we'd been working all week, so we said, you know what,
07 let's go have a little enjoyment. So we went up on the
08 hill by my house, and I had to hang some scouting
09 cameras. I'm an avid hunter, deer hunter.
10 Q. Is what a scouting camera?
11 A. It's essentially a digital camera where you hang
12 on a tree on various trails, actually takes pictures of
13 the deer that are coming through, so you can decide, you
14 know, where, where the best spot to hunt. So we went up
15 there for about an hour and a half. Jerry had split off
16 from me, and I went on my cameras. He actually stalked a
17 deer a spike horn he told me about it.
18 Q. What is that, stalking?
19 A. He saw it, he was trying to get up close as he
20 could. It's pretty neat. He told me about it.
21 Q. With the intention to kill it?
22 A. No, just to see how close he could get. He said
23 it was pretty neat encounter, actually.
24 Q. What vehicle were you in?
25 A. I was in my truck.
0026
01 Q. What kind of vehicle is that?
02 A. Ford F350.
03 Q. When did you get that Ford F350?
04 A. I purchased that in July, I believe.
05 Q. What condition was that truck in?
06 A. Brand, pretty much brand new. It was a 2005.
07 Excellent condition.
08 Q. At this time, are there any guns in your car?
09 A. Yeah, a .22, semi-automatic, Marlin, that I always
10 keep in my truck.
11 Q. Scope or no scope?
12 A. Had scope, three by nine.
13 Q. Why do you keep a rifle in your truck?
14 A. Well, I always have, especially when I go
15 scouting. Like to have one in the woods because to
16 target practice. It's nice to have one when you go out
17 in the woods. Not to use against animals in particular,
18 but coyote season is year round, if you do see coyotes,
19 it is legal to take them.
20 Q. And any point this day, Sunday, did you fire that
21 .22?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. When was that?
24 A. It was later on in the day. Riding in Popple
25 Dungeon.
0027
01 Q. What did you fire at?
02 A. A tree.
03 Q. For what purpose?
04 A. Just to see how it was shooting.
05 Q. Who was with you at the time you fired that .22?
06 A. Jerry Ucci and Corey, my brother.
07 Q. Just the three of you?
08 A. Yeah.
09 Q. So let's back, how was that gun working?
10 A. Fine.
11 Q. The .22; fine?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Did anyone else fire it that day, before you get
14 to the ball field?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. So when you were done firing at the tree, you put
17 it back in your truck?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. So let's, we're back now, you're hanging the game
20 cameras. Where is Jerry?
21 A. Right, we actually separated. He went one way, I
22 went the other way.
23 Q. Come back together again?
24 A. Yep.
25 Q. What happens next?
0028
01 A. We proceeding to back down to my house, my
02 parents' house, and we decided to get some lunch, went
03 down to McDonalds, never a good idea. But we went down
04 to McDonalds to get some food, and I knew my brother was
05 going to be coming back. He was working with my father
06 that day, and so we were waiting for him to have lunch.
07 Ended up showing up around two or two-thirty. And which
08 case Corey came with us.
09 Q. So, you've gone back to the Springfield area,
10 lunch at McDonalds, and you're going to your parents'
11 house in Springfield?
12 A. Yep.
13 Q. And then Corey and your dad show up?
14 A. Yep. Actually a part I left out, too, I was doing
15 some laundry at my parents' house, so I couldn't really
16 afford to be, to be doing at the Laundromat, so I was
17 doing laundry intermittently trying to get that done at
18 the same time.
19 Q. I think the parents in this room will give you
20 credit if you were actually doing it and not just
21 dropping it off. So, okay.
22 A. I was told I had to.
23 JUROR: He's brainwashed.
24 BY MR. SAND.
25 Q. It's one of my favorite expressions, a little
0029
01 a side, you do it quickly, you do it willingly, and you
02 do it badly, then you don't get asked again.
03 Okay, all right. So you didn't have a
04 plan at the start of the day to hang out with Corey, or
05 did you?
06 A. Not originally. It was when we met up, we had
07 planned to work pretty much all the day at my father's
08 house. We had been trying to wrap up a project that
09 we're working on. Given that that is Sunday, we said
10 let's enjoy a day, we got to go back to work tomorrow and
11 start our workweek all over again, as we all do, I
12 figured it would be nice to have some time to ourselves
13 to enjoy the day.
14 Q. So it's now you and Jerry and Corey?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. In your truck, vehicle?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Where do you go?
19 A. We had, we head towards Chester where we were
20 living at the time. And we decided to stop at a Gould's
21 Market, which is in Chester. I'm not sure if you guys
22 are familiar with that. Corey had to get a soda, and so
23 Jerry and I waited in the truck. Actually another
24 co-worker of ours, Ian Sutherland, had stopped, and he
25 was talking to us about just whatever, you know. And he
0030
01 had mentioned -- we'd told him we were going to do some
02 scouting, we had plans for scouting -- he had mentioned
03 his stepfather had some acres up in Popple Dungeon Road
04 that we could go up, potentially look at, check out, so
05 we said all right, and so that was the plan. Corey got
06 back in the truck, and I'd stopped at Mike Gleason's
07 house. I'd given him some hostas, and I wanted to make
08 sure he got them in the ground. But I had driven by his
09 house, they were wilting. I said got to get these into
10 the ground, Mike, got to get these in the ground. I
11 talked to him, you better get those in the ground today,
12 you're going to lose them if you don't.
13 Q. What kind of hostas?
14 A. Variegated green and while leaf. Just a
15 variegated hostas. Purple blooming flowers. So I talked
16 to him, told him we were going to go scouting. He said
17 I'm going to get them in the ground, I'm going to get
18 them in the ground. So we left, and we made our way up
19 to Popple Dungeon and drove out there to where we thought
20 he was talking about and --
21 Q. He being Ian, your friend?
22 A. Ian's, yeah. Where he said that the land was.
23 And I ended up on a class-four road with my truck.
24 Q. Was that, were you not happy about that?
25 A. No, it was pretty narrow. I have a full-size Ford
0031
01 F350, I was where deer would possibly be, so I said,
02 okay, we'll take it driving down there. My brother's
03 complaining in the back, you know, it's bumpy. He's in
04 the back seat, bang, banging around. He said calm down
05 here, he said I'm sick of sitting back here. Along the
06 way we'd stopped and seen some deer runs where the deer
07 crossed the road and stopped and checked it out, looked
08 for tracks, you know, looked like a good area to hunt,
09 possibly during bow season. And one of those stops is
10 when I had stopped to fire the .22.
11 Q. Okay. How many doors to the truck?
12 A. It's a two-door with a folding-out four doors.
13 Q. What does that mean?
14 A. When you open the front doors, there is latch you
15 can open the back door, back two doors.
16 Q. So you can't open the back door without opening
17 the front door?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. All right. And the doors open, how do we describe
20 that?
21 A. The front door is -- say this is, okay, the front
22 of the truck is facing you guys, those doors open that
23 way, obviously. The back doors open this way, opposite
24 ways.
25 Q. So when all four are open, there's sort of like a
0032
01 triangle shape?
02 A. Yep, yep, that's correct.
03 Q. All right. Another way to describe it, the front
04 door opens to the front, the back doors open towards the
05 back?
06 A. That's correct.
07 Q. Okay. Does that work?
08 A. That works.
09 Q. Okay. So best estimate, what time is it when you
10 fire the .22?
11 A. It's probably, we were on that road for possibly
12 an hour, seemed like it never ended, of course we had
13 gotten out a few times, Corey had to go to the bathroom
14 once. We were looking for deer signs, rubs, where deer,
15 bucks would rub trees and stuff so --
16 Q. Just so we're clear, sorry to cut you off, the
17 male deer rubs against a tree, you can see the sign of
18 that?
19 A. Yeah, that's correct.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. Typically this time of year they were trying to
22 get the velvet off their antlers. They carry velvet
23 throughout the summer. They rub the trees to get the
24 velvet off. This was approximately maybe three-thirty,
25 this point, quarter of four.
0033
01 Q. It's Jerry, it's Corey?
02 A. That's correct.
03 Q. Okay. How much you have to drink at this point in
04 time, alcoholic beverages?
05 A. Maybe one beer at that point.
06 Q. What alcohol is in the vehicle?
07 A. It was a six-pack of Budweiser there.
08 Q. You had one?
09 A. Yep.
10 Q. When did you have that?
11 A. I think I may have had that towards the end of the
12 road, down, coming out.
13 Q. Okay. Is Jerry drinking?
14 A. Jerry, I think Jerry had one, yeah.
15 Q. And your brother?
16 A. I'm pretty sure, yeah.
17 Q. Okay. And have you smoked any marijuana at that
18 point?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. At any point on Sunday did you smoke marijuana?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. At any point on Sunday were you in a vehicle when
23 someone smoked marijuana?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Any point in Sunday when you were in a vehicle
0034
01 when you were aware there was marijuana in the vehicle?
02 A. Yes, sir.
03 Q. Whose was that?
04 A. Jerry had a little bit.
05 Q. Your testimony is that Jerry did not smoke that at
06 any point on Sunday in your presence?
07 A. No, sir, no.
08 Q. No, he did not?
09 A. I didn't see him smoke it any place.
10 Q. All right. Did you use any illegal drugs on
11 Sunday, August 17?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Your brother is complaining because he's in the
14 back seat?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Is that a bucket seat, a bench seat?
17 A. It's a bench seat in the back, but Fords, the Ford
18 seats in the back aren't very comfortable, kind of bench
19 seats that's not very cushioned, I guess. I can give him
20 credit why he was complaining because it wasn't very
21 comfortable.
22 Q. Where, if you have three or four people in your
23 truck, where does, where is the .22 kept?
24 A. The .22 is usually kept in the back seat. I
25 typically have a gun rack. I had a gun rack in my other
0035
01 truck, but the gun rack didn't fit in this truck, because
02 the windows is larger in the back, so it was in the back
03 seat at that point.
04 Q. All right. So I don't know what -- you made a
05 hand gesture?
06 A. The barrel was facing down or under the seat.
07 Q. Towards, under the back seat?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. And then the stalk?
10 A. The stalk would be facing towards the front.
11 Q. So is it on the back seat, on the ground, on the
12 console?
13 A. The butt would have been on the console the barrel
14 would be facing down.
15 Q. All right. So the front seats are those bucket
16 seats?
17 A. They are, it's a, I think they call it a
18 two-thirds, then one, so in a sense you can move
19 two-thirds of the seat with one side and the other side
20 is single seat. But has a folding down arm rest.
21 Q. All right. Was that folded down?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So, the driver could rest his arm on that arm
24 rest, and the passenger could rest his arm on the arm
25 rest, as well?
0036
01 A. That's correct.
02 Q. So was the .22 resting on the arm rest at all?
03 A. Yes.
04 Q. All right. And that's the wooden butt end of the
05 stock end that would go against your shoulder if you were
06 firing?
07 A. That's correct.
08 Q. Pointed downward with the barrel under the back
09 seat?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Yes?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. So Corey is complaining, you now tell us
14 understandably because he's in the back seat. What do
15 you do?
16 A. Well, we're still on this road, first of all,
17 clear that up. And we're coming down to the end. I had
18 got a phone call from my mother at her store. At this
19 point it's approximately four, four-thirty. She's
20 getting ready to close, she closes at five. And Harley
21 wasn't with us at that point, my dog Harley. She had
22 been watching him because they were, we were working
23 earlier, and bringing a dog into the woods when you're
24 scouting isn't a really good idea. You got him pulling,
25 chasing deer, trying to, you know, it's not a good idea.
0037
01 Got my hands full. So I left him there. So she calls at
02 approximately four, four-thirty, and I answer, she says
03 where are you? I said I'm on a back road, Popple
04 Dungeon. She says, well, I'm getting ready to close,
05 it's getting close to five, will you come pick Harley up?
06 I said yeah, I'm on this road, I'm trying to get off this
07 road, never been down this road, so I'll be there as soon
08 as I can. So, we mosey on down, make our way out of this
09 road and head toward Chester and proceed to my apartment
10 building and her store to pick up Harley.
11 Q. What is her store?
12 A. Simply Country.
13 Q. Which is what?
14 A. It's a, like interior decorating general store
15 type. She sells curtains and decorations and crafts.
16 It's a country store.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. Furniture.
19 Q. Up to this point had you been the only driver of
20 your truck?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did you have a valid license to drive?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you have a valid license to drive?
25 A. Yes, sir.
0038
01 Q. I think we might have heard you didn't have a
02 license. That's not correct; right?
03 A. No.
04 Q. You do have a valid license?
05 A. Yeah, I have it in my pocket right now.
06 Q. I will confirm that you have a valid license.
07 A. Yes.
08 Q. Okay. So do you get Harley?
09 A. Yes we pick up Harley, and we switch vehicles.
10 Q. All right. Because?
11 A. Because Corey was distraught about being in the
12 back seat. He said I want my own truck, I got to drive,
13 I want to be driving, I'm sick of being back here, I've
14 had enough so --
15 Q. Other than the call from your mom indicating that
16 she is closing and that you can come get Harley, had you
17 gotten other phone calls from the time you, Jerry, and
18 Corey set out?
19 A. Well, we had switched vehicles. We were making
20 our way to Springfield.
21 Q. Time out. Before you switched, I'm sorry. So, up
22 until this point, have you gotten any other calls?
23 A. It was on our way out that I got the call from
24 Tristan.
25 Q. After switching?
0039
01 A. Yes.
02 Q. So --
03 A. I believe.
04 Q. So, I'm just, trying to block, break it down into
05 blocks of time.
06 A. Okay.
07 Q. Before you switched, had you gotten a call?
08 A. No, sir.
09 Q. Any follow-up from Gib?
10 A. Nope.
11 Q. About any of that?
12 A. I hadn't spoken with Gib at all except for that
13 more that day.
14 Q. So no calls at all related to Gib, or
15 Mr. Tamburello or anyone up to this point?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. So you switched vehicles, and you pick up or get
18 into Corey's vehicle. What is that?
19 A. It's a GMC 2500 HD.
20 Q. HD?
21 A. Heavy duty.
22 Q. Okay. Pickup truck?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Yes. Who is driving?
25 A. Corey's driving.
0040
01 Q. Who is passenger?
02 A. I'm the passenger.
03 Q. Front seat?
04 A. Me.
05 Q. And who is in the back seat?
06 A. Jerry.
07 Q. How's the back seat ride in that vehicle?
08 A. It's better, it's much more comfortable. Harley,
09 as well.
10 Q. Harley's in the vehicle, as well?
11 A. Yes, in the back seat.
12 Q. So you gone to your apartment in Chester, you've
13 parked your truck, you've switched to Corey's truck?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. Where are you intending to go?
16 A. We were headed back towards Springfield. I wanted
17 to go back up in the orchard where I had hung my cameras
18 to check out some more spots. Corey's with us this time,
19 he wanted to do some brook fishing at a brook locally to
20 our house. But we were headed in that general direction
21 back towards Springfield.
22 Q. All right. What did you do with the .22 after you
23 got back to -- go ahead.
24 A. This for me?
25 Q. Yeah, it is for you.
0041
01 After you got back to when you switched
02 vehicles --
03 A. I put it in Corey's truck.
04 Q. You transferred the .22 out of your vehicle and
05 you put it into Corey's truck?
06 A. That's correct.
07 Q. Why did you do that?
08 A. Because my intentions were to go scouting again.
09 Q. All right. And just may have asked you this
10 already. At any point for the rest of that day did you
11 fire the .22 again?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Okay. So you're back in Corey's truck, you're
14 heading out; what happens?
15 A. We get going, we're going, going on the Tribow
16 Road and got phone call from Tristan, and Tristan is
17 distraught, scared. When I say Tristan, I mean Tristan
18 Blanchard.
19 Q. Let me just ask you this: Who gets a phone call?
20 A. I do, on my cell phone.
21 Q. Tristan calling you?
22 A. I'm pretty sure it was Tristan that called me,
23 yes.
24 Q. What might another option be?
25 A. I may have called him. The best of my knowledge,
0042
01 I believe he called me.
02 Q. How do you know Tristan?
03 A. Tristan is, he's a friend of Corey's, also a
04 friend of mine. But he graduated with Corey. And they
05 are more closer friend than Tristan and myself, so, but I
06 do, we live in the same town, so I hung out with him from
07 time to time. And I know his girl friend, Michelle
08 Lachapelle. She graduated a year ahead of me, and that's
09 how I know them.
10 Q. Before this conversation was Tristan, had you
11 heard anything about Tristan having problems with anyone?
12 A. That day?
13 Q. That day?
14 A. No. Not that day
15 Q. Okay. Had you ever heard of Tristan having
16 problems with Mr. Tamburello?
17 A. Only through Gib in that conversation with Gib.
18 Q. From the day before?
19 A. Yeah, just briefly about what had happened. I
20 didn't know much about it.
21 Q. Your recollection you get a phone call from
22 Tristan?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. And describe that conversation.
25 A. Just Tristan's very distraught, upset, on the
0043
01 verge of crying. He may have been crying. Says I've
02 never been so scared in my life, myself, my girl friend,
03 this guy's driving by my house, he's chasing me. He's so
04 scared, doesn't know what to do. Upset, distraught. I
05 have never heard him like that before in my life. And he
06 said I don't know what to do, Kyle, I don't know what to
07 do, Kyle, I don't know what to do, I'm so scared. So
08 scared. Just crying. And man, he must be in trouble,
09 must be in trouble. So I said, Corey, better go back and
10 get him out of the situation. Corey turned around, we
11 get him out of situation, he says, he told me he was at
12 his house, he told me the guy was driving by his house.
13 I obviously didn't know who this person was. You know, I
14 just had heard a little bit of what had gone on. It was
15 very little. But we went back there. Corey turned
16 around, we were heading back towards Tristan.
17 Q. Did you go there?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What happened when you got there?
20 A. Tristan was standing out front on the cell phone,
21 he hung up, his cell phone. He was crying. He was pale
22 white and shaking. He said, he said I've never been so
23 scared in my life, I don't know what to do, I don't know
24 what to do, I've never been so scared for me and my girl
25 friend, I don't know what to do. Well, Tristan, just get
0044
01 in, get in the truck, I'll get you out of here. Because
02 he said this guy had been driving by his house back and
03 forth, so I said Tristan get in, come with us. So his
04 girl friend, Michelle, and Jordan were there, and he told
05 them to go inside and lock the doors, and he called Gib
06 and told Gib to come over, and Gib would be there
07 momentarily, protect them. Apparently this guy was after
08 Tristan.
09 Q. Had you heard a name of that guy?
10 A. At that point?
11 Q. Yes, by that point?
12 A. At that point, he had told me, yes.
13 Q. What name did you hear?
14 A. Vinny.
15 Q. All right. So now does Tristan get into Corey's
16 truck?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Corey's driving?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You're in the front passenger seat?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Who is directly behind you?
23 A. Jerry Ucci.
24 Q. And that would leave Tristan behind Corey?
25 A. Yes, sir.
0045
01 Q. Okay. Where do you go?
02 A. Tristan immediately grabbed my dog and was
03 crushing my dog, scared, he was pale white, he was
04 absolutely petrified, scared out of his mind. I never
05 seen him like that in my life. So we leave there. I
06 said Tristan, calm down, calm down, Tristan, you're all
07 right, you're all right, we're going to get you out of
08 the situation. He won't know where you are, we're going
09 to get you out of here, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine.
10 At that point when we were making our way back towards --
11 originally planned to go, back towards Tribow Road, we
12 took right by Jiffy Mart and through the stone village in
13 Chester, and Tristan started to explain what had
14 happened. And never been to scared for his life, he
15 never been to scared for his girl friend, never felt like
16 less of a man in his life, to be able to defend his girl
17 friend and his own home. He was petrified, just white.
18 I remember it. So scared, it's, Tristan, just calm down,
19 calm down. He locked like he was having an anxiety
20 attack.
21 Q. You told us how Tristan was feeling.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. What did he tell you had happened that was making
24 him feel that way?
25 A. He said that Vinny had came to his house yesterday
0046
01 and had ripped him off, had walked into his house, he
02 said he had a crazy look on his face, he looked like he
03 was drooling. He wouldn't leave his apartment. He said
04 that I never felt so threatened before. He told him to
05 leave, he wouldn't leave. He was scared. He was like
06 twice his size. He said, he said he, he needed
07 protection, for himself, he said he never been so scared
08 for him and his girl friend. He just kept repeating the
09 same things.
10 Q. Was there an event that, other than that rip-off,
11 that Tristan discussed?
12 A. He told us briefly about the incident from the day
13 before, just briefly.
14 Q. Had he discussed any phone calls or any other
15 contact that he had had with Vinny or anyone else related
16 to this?
17 A. He had just said that Vinny had been threatening
18 him and Ben Millay and Gib Bastian, he said that been
19 threatening him.
20 Q. Okay. We know he didn't say just say it was a
21 rip-off. He gave more detail?
22 A. He said he ripped him off for forty dollars.
23 Q. That's what he told you?
24 A. That's what he told my.
25 Q. Money?
0047
01 A. Yes.
02 Q. That's your, that's what Tristan told you?
03 A. That's what he told me, yes.
04 Q. Okay. So, what did you do?
05 A. So we continue on our route, Springfield, and head
06 through Chester, toward Gassetts, and make our way into
07 Gassetts, and take a right at the, used to be a driving
08 range there, and head towards Springfield, stopped at the
09 Mobile Mart in North Springfield, and Corey had to use
10 the restroom, so Corey used the restroom. And we
11 continued on some back roads up, up through and around,
12 and just cruising around. We went up Cherry Hill in
13 Springfield. Corey showed us the job side he had been
14 working or the show residence where he had been hydro
15 seeding and landscaping.
16 Q. Done what, hydro?
17 A. Essentially where you have bare ground, you spray
18 on seed with water pressure, mulch and seed. And planted
19 some trees and done some landscaping. Showed it to us.
20 We were just trying to get Tristan calmed down and make
21 him feel comfortable and get him calmed down.
22 Q. Was there any alcohol to help calm him down?
23 A. No, no, sir.
24 Q. No. Is there alcohol in the vehicle?
25 A. Yes, sir, yes, just what we had, we had like a
0048
01 six-pack in there that we had been drinking off of.
02 Q. Okay. So at this point how many beers have you
03 had for the day?
04 A. I had probably two, three beers total that whole
05 day.
06 Q. Okay. Is there any alcohol other than beer in the
07 vehicle?
08 A. At this point?
09 Q. Yes.
10 A. Not to my knowledge.
11 Q. At any point?
12 A. Not to my knowledge at that point.
13 Q. At any point that day were you in the vehicle that
14 had alcohol other than beer?
15 A. I believe so, yes. I believe Corey had little bit
16 of vodka that he had left over from the night before,
17 that he had grabbed at some point.
18 Q. Was it in the vehicle at this point?
19 A. I believe so. I didn't see him actually grab it
20 so --
21 Q. You're driving around, the four of you, calming
22 Tristan down?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. What's next?
25 A. Just cruising the back roads and just trying to
0049
01 calm Tristan down. And Jerry gets a phone call or Jerry
02 makes a phone call.
03 Q. To?
04 A. To Kirby Donahue.
05 Q. Why does he do that?
06 A. Because Tristan is very upset and distraught, and
07 he wanted to find out why he's doing this, why Vinny is
08 doing this to Tristan.
09 Q. So why call Kirby?
10 A. Because Kirby was with Vinny. According to
11 Tristan.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. I was in the front seat at this point with my
14 brother, and I didn't hear much of the conversation of
15 what was going on. So --
16 Q. Does Jerry reach Kirby?
17 A. He does.
18 Q. And describe what you could hear?
19 A. Just that Jerry had asked him, I think, why he
20 was, why he was following Tristan around, why he was
21 threatening him, why he was doing things he was doing.
22 Q. I thought you said he called Kirby?
23 A. Kirby handed the phone to Vinny, apparently.
24 Q. All right. Go ahead.
25 A. So he'd asked him, you know, what's going on
0050
01 there, why, why is he doing these things to Tristan, why
02 is he harassing people, what's going on here. And
03 apparently Vinny got defensive and had asked Jerry to
04 come to his house. Jerry said that wasn't a good idea,
05 obviously, you know, he said it wasn't a good idea. And
06 so that phone call got disconnected. And Vinny is
07 screaming in the phone, I'm fucking crazy, I'm fucking
08 crazy. This and that. And --
09 Q. How does Jerry respond to that?
10 A. Jerry got a little uptight, and I don't recall
11 exactly what he was saying, because like I said, I was in
12 the front seat. But he didn't threaten him in any way,
13 shape or form. They got disconnected. So we continued
14 on our route throughout where we were going, these back
15 roads, just trying to calm Tristan down still, and so we
16 are making our way back around, and we make our way down
17 to the Texaco station, and Jerry had called family member
18 of his, Tim Arbuckle --
19 Q. Um-hum.
20 A. -- who is related to him. Jerry's sister is
21 LeeAnn, said to Tom Arbuckle, whose Tim's brother. So we
22 called Tim, said look, this guy just said he wants to
23 meet up with me, he's crazy, and this and that, and this
24 is just what Jerry is telling me because I'm obviously
25 not on the phone. So, and so Tim suggested that we come
0051
01 to the ball field, says a lot of people there, safe
02 place, vinny wouldn't try anything there.
03 Q. You knew this how?
04 A. From Jerry.
05 Q. Jerry tells you that Tim suggests coming to the
06 ball field?
07 A. Because it's is a safe place, it's people here, he
08 wouldn't try anything, you can rationalize with him, why
09 he's doing this to Tristan, why he's, why is he doing the
10 things he's doing.
11 Q. This -- go ahead, I'm sorry.
12 A. Wasn't going to stop harass him, Tristan. Or
13 anybody else.
14 Q. The was a phone call from Jerry to Tim?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. On whose phone?
17 A. Tristan's phone.
18 Q. On Tristan's phone?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So Jerry borrows Tristan's phone to call Tim?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. What did Jerry offer Tim for his
23 assistance?
24 A. Didn't offer him anything, to my knowledge.
25 Q. What's your best estimate of what time of day it
0052
01 was where the Jerry/Tim conversation takes place?
02 A. May have been about five-fifteen, five-thirty.
03 Q. All right. So what happens after that phone
04 conversation?
05 A. I believe Jerry gets a phone call back from Kirby
06 and Vinny, and Jerry had already talked to Tim, and Jerry
07 said if you want to talk at the ball field in Chester,
08 fifteen minutes.
09 Q. All right.
10 A. They were apparently in Chester, and then driving
11 by Tristan's house and threatening him, and they were
12 doing what they were doing.
13 Q. Any discussion about what that, what's going to
14 happen at that meeting?
15 A. No, just the planning on finding out what his deal
16 was, why he was harassing Tristan, what his fixation was
17 with harassing everybody around.
18 Q. How tall are you?
19 A. How tall am I? Six-one.
20 Q. How much do you weigh?
21 A. One seventy, one seventy-five.
22 Q. Tim Arbuckle, ballpark, how tall is he?
23 A. He's probably five eleven.
24 Q. And weight?
25 A. Probably one eighty, one eighty-five.
0053
01 Q. Okay. Is there any discussion at this point
02 about, from either side, either that you're aware of from
03 the Vinny's side or from Jerry's side about bringing
04 weapons to the ball field?
05 A. No, sir.
06 Q. So, what happens after that phone conversation?
07 A. After that phone conversation we leave the gas
08 station and head towards Chester, on Chester Road.
09 Corey's driving, and we pass a slow moving vehicle,
10 pretty straight flat road, so we pass the slow moving
11 vehicle, and in doing that, state cop was turning around
12 in the turnaround that's right there, and Corey looked in
13 his rear-view mirror, he saw the woman flash the light on
14 her car when the state cop passed her, so he thought he
15 was going to get a passing violation. It may have been a
16 non passing zone, or whatever. He takes a right onto
17 Green Mountain Turnpike Road headed away from the ball
18 field at that point.
19 Q. You're on what road?
20 A. Green Mountain Turnpike.
21 Q. You turn on Green Mountain?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. From which road?
24 A. Springfield Chester Road.
25 Q. Okay, go ahead, what happens?
0054
01 A. So then we turn on the Green Mountain Turnpike,
02 now we're headed away from the ball field. And like I
03 told you before, Jerry had said fifteen minutes to meet,
04 we'll meet and talk then. So now we're headed onto Green
05 Mountain Turnpike, which is a small dirt road in Chester.
06 We turn right onto Crow Hill Road. So now we're headed
07 in the total opposite direction from the ball field at
08 this point. No longer concerned with getting to the ball
09 field.
10 Q. Say what?
11 A. We're no longer concerned with getting to the ball
12 field at that point.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. So making our way up Crow Hill Road, and we're
15 driving down the road, and, you know, Tristan apparently
16 had a bag of weed on him. So I didn't know until he
17 pulled it out, he says got a bag of weed on me. Corey
18 said, well, Can't drive my truck, then, if you got that
19 on you, because he had no knowledge of it, either. But,
20 so Tristan started driving Corey's truck.
21 Q. What's the logic of switching drivers here?
22 A. Because Corey didn't want the liability of having
23 the bag of weed that Tristan had in his truck.
24 Q. This is marijuana we're talking about?
25 A. Yeah, and I had no knowledge of him having it,
0055
01 either. Till he pulled it out. So, so we're driving
02 down this road, and we end up going towards Gib's house,
03 who lives out this way, and since this time, it's been
04 probably half hour, forty minutes since this is all
05 happened, and we go to Gib's house, we think maybe Gib
06 might be there, and we get there and Tristan calls Gib to
07 see where Gib is at because Gib's with his girl friend
08 and Jordan, and so he, he doesn't talk to Gib, I guess he
09 can't get ahold of him, so we stop there for a minute,
10 deciding what do, you know, we're no longer concerned
11 getting to the ball field at that point. Corey's truck's
12 almost out of gas. And makes a decision to head back to
13 pick up my truck. His truck is almost out of gas.
14 Q. You go back to your apartment to get your truck?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Do you do that?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What happens when you get to your apartment?
19 A. We switch vehicles because Corey's vehicle was
20 pretty much out of gas.
21 Q. All right. You had had a .22?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What was with that?
24 A. I put the .22 back in my vehicle where I always
25 have it. I always keep it right in my truck. And I put
0056
01 my dog in the back seat of my truck. And I get in the
02 passenger side of my truck, and Jerry gets in the back
03 seat. Corey goes inside. Earlier in the day Tristan had
04 said he wanted protection, he said he talked to his step-
05 dad about getting a pistol just in case that guy came
06 back to his house, he didn't feel comfortable sleeping at
07 Night, he didn't know when he was coming back, he
08 obviously broken into his house, and so Corey had offered
09 him earlier in the day protection for the night, he said
10 you can borrow my rifle For the night. Tristan
11 acknowledged the fact that, you know, okay. So Corey
12 came out, and he brought the rifle and showed Tristan.
13 Tristan acknowledges the fact that it was, it was for
14 him, it was the 30-06.
15 Q. Whose gun is it?
16 A. That's Corey's gun.
17 Q. Okay. What happened at that point?
18 A. So I told Tristan about the functionability of
19 rifle. I'm very familiar with firearms. I'm a hunter, a
20 passionate hunter, it's one of my favorite pastimes in
21 life, and I'm very familiar with firearms. So I for
22 safety of Tristan, you know, I do the right thing, I take
23 hunter education, passed a hundred percent, you know, I
24 show him the functionability of the rifle and put the
25 clip in the glove box and put the rifle in the back seat
0057
01 pointed down just like a .22.
02 Q. Did you actually put the clip into the rifle as
03 part of teaching Tristan?
04 A. Yes. I took it back out.
05 Q. Did you hand him the rifle at any point?
06 A. I didn't at that point, no.
07 Q. So the rifle ends up next to the .22?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. And the clip is in the glove box?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. And this is a functioning rifle?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. In good shape.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. No, no major defects?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. I only fire the rifle a few times in my life.
19 It's my brother's rifle, so I, you know.
20 Q. He owns it?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. He maintains it?
23 A. It's his deal. He knows it, got it for Tristan's
24 protection, Tristan acknowledged the fact that he wanted
25 it. He got it for him. Strictly. I put my rifle back
0058
01 in my truck where I always keep it.
02 Q. So now there are two rifles in your truck?
03 A. That's correct.
04 Q. The .22, that you and only you had fired earlier
05 that day?
06 A. Right.
07 Q. And Corey's 30-06 that he had gone into the
08 apartment to get and the clip for the 30-06 is in the
09 glove box?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. All right. So --
12 A. Both all right unloaded.
13 Q. Who is, who is in what position?
14 A. Corey's driving truck, I'm in the passenger seat,
15 Tristan, Jerry in the back seat, Tristan's still holding
16 my dog.
17 Q. Corey, I'm sorry, Corey's driving, you're in the
18 passenger, Tristan and Corey are in the back seat?
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. You're new truck?
21 A. My new truck, yeah.
22 Q. You like a lot?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. You're the passenger?
25 A. Yep.
0059
01 Q. Why is that?
02 A. I felt like being the passenger. I was the
03 passenger all day, you know, I been driving all day. I
04 let Corey drive my truck.
05 Q. What happens next?
06 A. We head down Church Street from my apartment, and
07 Tristan had said we're going to head back to Tristan's
08 house. At that point we had been about an hour
09 forty-five minutes since, you know, phone conversation
10 with Jerry and Vinny and Kirby. So really had passed our
11 minds that, as to the rush to get to the ball field to
12 talk with this guy. I really didn't have involvement
13 with him at this point. And I really wasn't in hurry to
14 get there myself. So, we got, went through Church
15 Street, and Tristan lives right, you take a left off of
16 Church Street, there's a green in Chester, I don't know
17 if you guys are familiar with the glean. Tristan lives
18 right there. And so Corey says, Tristan says he's got
19 some Bud Lite there, Bud Lite. Corey says I don't like
20 Bud Lite, I like Budweiser. That's what I drink, too, I
21 drink Budweiser. Corey decides he wants a six-pack of
22 Budweiser. So all right. We go to Jiffy Mart first.
23 And Corey goes in, gets a six-pack, an our intentions
24 were to go back to Tristan's house, drop off 30-06, and
25 probably have a few beers. We'd forgotten the whole
0060
01 situation at this point. We weren't, we weren't in a
02 hurry to get there. We actually forgotten about it.
03 Whole thing. You know, we went on a detour, forgotten
04 about all that. So I got a phone call from Mike Gleason
05 while I'm sitting in the parking lot at Jiffy Mart saying
06 Vinny was just at his house, he was pulled up outside of
07 his house, he was planting the hostas that I'd given him,
08 he said he was shaking with the shovel in his hands.
09 He's a big guy, you guys saw Mike.
10 Q. Did you, Mike told you he was shaking?
11 A. He said he was scared, he said he was scared,
12 Vinny was just at his house, he said he was screaming out
13 looking for Gib telling him he's going to kill Gib, he
14 was going to kill his whole family, he said, he said. So
15 Mike said nothing to do with me. Vinny's screaming I'm
16 from Boston, I'm fucking crazy, I'm fucking crazy, just
17 yelling that. That's what Mike is telling me. And
18 Tristan was worried about his girl friend that was there,
19 and Jordan was there, and --
20 Q. Who is Jordan?
21 A. Jordan was the girl that was hanging out with Gib
22 that day.
23 Q. What's her relationship with Jordan?
24 A. Just a friend of mine.
25 Q. Jordan your girl friend?
0061
01 A. No, sir.
02 Q. Go ahead.
03 A. So Mike's scared, he doesn't know what to do, so I
04 said we decided we're going to go from that point, we
05 decided we are going to go down to Mike's house. So we
06 went to Mike's house. Mike was standing out front with
07 Adrianne. Mike was standing with a shovel. He waved us
08 by. We were going to pull into Mike's house. He waved
09 us by. And Adrianne was waving us in, and Gib's car was
10 parked there. So Vinny just been there looking for Gib
11 screaming he was going to kill Gib and his family,
12 everybody else, so, excuse me, after Mike's house the
13 ball field is the next left. So as it turns out, we
14 actually ended up at the ball field. We take that left
15 and go down there. We get down there, and, you know,
16 Vinny and those guys aren't there. And we get out, at
17 the ball field.
18 Q. Where do you park?
19 A. We parked up by the tent, where there was a series
20 of cars parked there. There was probably ten cars parked
21 there.
22 Q. Who is driving?
23 A. Corey's driving.
24 Q. Is there a parallel parking, or do people park
25 wherever?
0062
01 A. Well, it was kind of, there was a lot of vehicles
02 parked in a small area. We pulled up kind of diagonal to
03 the tent. There was some parallel parked vehicles, and
04 there was vehicles pretty much everywhere, you know, they
05 were all staggered around the tent.
06 Q. What do you do after arriving?
07 A. We get out of the truck, and obviously Jerry had
08 talked to Tim earlier in the day, and so Jerry talked to
09 Tim, and Corey was mingling with a couple people, just
10 hanging out. And I was hanging out, too, just, you know,
11 hanging out there for a minute trying to, you know,
12 figure out what was going on. And we were hanging out
13 there. Had a beer there. And they pulled in up top. I
14 say they, I mean Vinny and, Vinny and Kirby and --
15 Q. Julie?
16 A. Julie.
17 Q. Okay. At some some point does Gib arrive?
18 A. Yes, I forgot that part. I'm sorry.
19 Q. So tell us --
20 A. So Gib, Gib pulls up beside me, parks beside me,
21 my -- it's hard, you have a diagram? Diagram shows where
22 he's parked? He parks Diagonally beside me. This is
23 Gib's car, this is my truck. He parked diagonally to me.
24 Q. Why don't you just move aside. I'm going for a
25 second, please, just make sure that this isn't going to
0063
01 -- all right. So using pretty good size rectangles,
02 maybe, maybe not quite as large as a shoe box, but not
03 much bigger, why don't you put your vehicles -- we're
04 going to put a triangle on top of it, so make rectangle
05 with triangle pointing in the direction that your vehicle
06 is pointing; all right.
07 And then Gib's.
08 Draw it, then I'll ask you to explain.
09 This way I get you to make the drawing, not me, and watch
10 your -- don't ink yourself -- don't explain, just draw
11 it, then we'll have -- and it's been said -- make sure
12 the ink doesn't go through the paper.
13 A. Okay, this is the tent here.
14 Q. All right. Why don't you have a seat?
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Now --
17 A. This is my truck.
18 Q. Can I tease you a little bit? I said just a
19 little smaller than a shoe box, so you got some small
20 feet here.
21 A. Sorry about that.
22 Q. All right, all right. So down in the lower left,
23 you've drawn item, you've written in tent, closer to me,
24 slightly larger, you've drawn a rectangle with a triangle
25 pointed towards the tent?
0064
01 A. That's correct.
02 Q. What vehicle is that?
03 A. That's my Ford.
04 Q. Okay. And then to the left as you're looking at
05 this page is a smaller rectangle; what is that?
06 A. That would be Gib's Honda Accord sedan.
07 Q. Between your truck and Gib's Honda, is there any
08 other vehicle?
09 A. No, sir.
10 Q. How confident are you of that?
11 A. Very confident.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. I will tell you that series of vehicles that are
14 marked around here --
15 Q. Is what?
16 A. Series.
17 Q. Lot of vehicles?
18 A. A lot of vehicles.
19 Q. Is there a bathroom place, bathroom building?
20 A. About over --
21 Q. Here you go.
22 A. Want me to draw the best of my ability or step by
23 step?
24 Q. Go ahead, take a moment and draw it as you
25 remember it, then I'll, don't explain it, we'll have you
0065
01 explain it after you're done.
02 A. All right. Like I said, these vehicles here, this
03 is a series of them, there was probably at least six or
04 eight.
05 Q. Mr. Bolaski, I think finish, then we'll talk about
06 it.
07 A. All right, all right.
08 Q. All right. My suggestion, we're probably pretty
09 close?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. Can you identify the types of trees you've planted
12 there.
13 Have a seat.
14 A. I think they are maples.
15 Q. I downloaded this landscaping thing, this is about
16 as good as that.
17 All right, let's walk through this.
18 A. Usually my design concepts are a lot better than
19 that drawing.
20 Q. This is good. Upper right-hand corner, antique
21 barn?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. This is the roadway coming in?
24 A. Sort of a parking lot there, as well.
25 Q. What is this little rectangular shape there, as
0066
01 well?
02 A. That would be Julie's car.
03 Q. Okay. Do you know Julie last name?
04 A. Kronberg.
05 Q. Okay. So I'm going to write --
06 A. Sorry, drawing isn't the best. I don't usually
07 draw on the wall.
08 Q. Yeah, I hope we didn't actually -- the good news
09 is, Mr. Bolaski --
10 JUROR: Only a little.
11 BY MR. SAND:
12 Q. I get to blame you for it.
13 Okay, so --
14 A. Little touch up.
15 Q. JK. We see bathhouse. What's the rectangular
16 building closer to me from bathhouse?
17 A. I remember there being, this is the first time
18 ever been to the ball field ever in my life, so this is
19 what I remember in that night. I think there was like a
20 podium or some sort of a, a couple buildings.
21 Q. Gazebo or bandstand or something?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. All right. Now, you identified this vehicle as
24 your vehicle?
25 A. Yes, sir.
0067
01 Q. So I'm going to put a one from your vehicle, and
02 to page left that's whose vehicle?
03 A. Gib's car.
04 Q. All right. And then some other vehicles that you
05 remember being there?
06 A. Yeah, there was a green Jeep, a Toyota SUV.
07 Q. This one is a Jeep?
08 A. Yeah, I believe.
09 Q. I've written Jeep. There is a Toyota?
10 A. Yep, SUV.
11 Q. All right.
12 A. Some sort. There's a green Chevy pickup truck
13 somewhere, I think this may be this one.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. There's also a. --
16 Q. I've written pickup.
17 A. -- Tim Arbuckle's car, which was Volkswagen.
18 Q. VW. What kind?
19 A. Green Volkswagen or soft --
20 Q. Is there, there's a tent, a tent.
21 A. There's also RV over here on this side.
22 Q. You marked that RV?
23 A. Yes. There was vehicles everywhere over there.
24 Q. So you guys pull up?
25 A. Yes.
0068
01 Q. And park?
02 A. Yes, sir.
03 Q. Who is driving?
04 A. My brother.
05 Q. All right. And how long after you arrive does Gib
06 arrive?
07 A. I think he arrived right behind us. We, he had
08 seen us going by Mike's house. He followed us in.
09 Q. So were you all essentially getting out at the
10 same time?
11 A. He got out after. He's a bigger guy, takes a
12 little bit longer to get out but --
13 Q. Who's in Gib's car?
14 A. I believe Jordan.
15 Q. Anyone else?
16 A. I'm not sure if Michelle with him or not.
17 Q. So what do you do when you get out of your car?
18 A. Just had a beer. Just --
19 Q. Okay. Talking to folks?
20 A. Yeah, my last beer, that third beer.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. Like I said, we had a six-pack between me and
23 Jerry.
24 Q. Is your testimony today that for the entire day of
25 Sunday, August 17, all you consumed were three beers?
0069
01 A. Yes, sir.
02 Q. Both, both including anything before and after the
03 incident?
04 A. Yes, sir.
05 Q. Three beers?
06 A. Yes, sir.
07 Q. Okay.
08 Mr. Foreman, we're familiar enough with
09 events, we're going to moving into a more difficult
10 subject area, and it's ten-fifteen. I don't know if this
11 works or not works, but it might.
12 Would that work all right for the court
13 reporter? The record shall reflect she's nodding.
14 How much time, fifteen minutes all right?
15 MR. KELLEY: Very well.
16 MR. SAND: We're going to break. It's not
17 clear to me what your allowance is for moving around.
18 But maybe you're told to stay here? Okay. Okay. So
19 we'll, we're going to, we're going to break.
20 You may leave, but I think you know some
21 of the limitations about what you should or should not be
22 talking. I can step out with you.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 MR. SAND: We're going to resume at
25 ten-thirty.
0070
01 THE WITNESS: Yep.
02 (Recess, 10:14 - 10:32 a.m.).
03 MR. KELLEY: Mr. Sand, the grand jury is
04 seated.
05 BY MR. SAND:
06 Q. Mr. Bolaski, if you head back. Okay. And let me
07 remind you that you're still under oath.
08 A. Okay.
09 Q. So, when we broke, you had indicated that you had
10 arrived at the ball field, and that Gib had arrived
11 shortly thereafter, and then I think you had started to
12 tell us that a vehicle driven by Julie Kronberg arrived?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Do you know Julie?
15 A. I don't know her personally, but I know her name.
16 We're from the same town so --
17 JUROR: Excuse me, I was wondering if you
18 can move on over a little bit. I can't see.
19 THE WITNESS: Sure, anything. Is this
20 good?
21 JUROR: Thank you.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 JUROR: Wondering if you could move a
24 little to the left.
25 THE WITNESS: My left or your right?
0071
01 Left? All right, we good now?
02 Do my best.
03 BY MR. SAND:
04 Q. Did you recognize the vehicle that you identified
05 as the Kronberg vehicle?
06 A. No, I didn't, I didn't know what she had driven.
07 Q. How did you know that was her car?
08 A. Well, they pulled in up top, and Vinny had gotten
09 out, and he had a Tazer in his hand.
10 Q. How do you know it was Julie Kronberg's car?
11 A. I didn't at the time until he got out and
12 apparently --
13 Q. With him getting out, how did you know it was
14 Julie Kronberg's car?
15 A. I didn't. I just assumed. It was them. I had, I
16 didn't know what she drove. I didn't know, I don't know
17 much of her.
18 Q. How do you -- do you know that Julie and Vinny had
19 any connection with each other?
20 A. Because of my brief knowledge of what had happened
21 on Summer Street there.
22 Q. From whom?
23 A. From Gib.
24 Q. So how do you know that Julie and Vinny had any
25 connection to each other?
0072
01 A. Just from what I heard briefly about the whole
02 deal.
03 Q. What was that?
04 A. That Kirby and Julie and Vinny were in the same
05 vehicle.
06 Q. What happens after the Kronberg vehicle shows up?
07 A. I guess Vinny, my, I guess -- is this Vinny guy?
08 Q. Mean back at the ball field now?
09 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Okay, go ahead.
11 A. He gets out of the vehicle. We're all down --
12 wish I could have two people here -- we're all standing
13 down by the vehicle, by the tent, doing whatever, and we
14 saw them get out, and he had Tazer, was zapping a Tazer.
15 Q. How do you know it was a Tazer?
16 A. You could see it, hear it, zapping, blue,
17 zz,zz,zz, could hear it all the way down from the bottom.
18 He's saying I'm Vinny, I'm from Boston, I'm fucking
19 crazy. Just yelling at us, yelling at us.
20 Q. What else is he yelling, if anything?
21 A. Yelling come up here, come up here, come up here.
22 Q. Are you trying to do his accent.
23 A. I tried to, but I'm from Vermont so --
24 Q. All right. How loud is this?
25 A. He's yelling at me, I was probably, I don't know,
0073
01 hundred yards or less, so, he's yelling down.
02 Q. I'm going to use my lazer pointer.
03 A. Okay.
04 Q. Where are you?
05 A. I'm approximately in between vehicle number one
06 and the Volkswagen.
07 Q. Is that here?
08 A. Yep.
09 Q. This this area?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. And this person you're calling Vinny is up here?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. And you're calling that roughly a hundred yards?
14 A. Roughly, yes.
15 Q. Okay. Had you seen this person you're calling
16 Vinny before?
17 A. No, I never seen him before in my life. I
18 couldn't point him out to you still to this day.
19 Q. Okay. Did he mention anyone by name?
20 A. Tristan and Gib, he was, he said he was going to
21 kill Tristan and Gib.
22 Q. Do you remember specifically what he said?
23 A. You want it, Tristan? He wanted Tristan and Gib.
24 Q. Okay. Is that what he said?
25 A. I remember him yelling about Tristan and Gib.
0074
01 That's the best of my recollection.
02 Q. All right. So what happened next?
03 A. So then Tim, Jerry, Corey, and I and a couple
04 girls had walked up closer to him. See, he asked us to
05 come up here, come up here, you know. We were going to
06 go talk to him, see what his problem was, see if we could
07 rationalize what was going on here.
08 Q. Anyone in your group saying anything?
09 A. Just Tim, he said, he said put that Tazer down,
10 I'm going to shove it up your ass. That's all that was
11 said.
12 Q. Okay. Mr. Bolaski, you just used the term
13 rationalize?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. So we got a group of guys, you, your brother, Tim,
16 good-sized guys?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. You got someone like Vinny, I mean you got Vinny,
19 also good-sized?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. What was your plan as you're walking up the
22 little --
23 A. To find out why he had been harassing Tristan, to
24 find out what his deal was, to find out what, why he was
25 doing what he was doing. We certainly did not expect
0075
01 what had happened next to happen.
02 Q. So you're a group, you are walking up towards the
03 vehicle?
04 A. Right.
05 Q. What was next?
06 A. So we stop about halfway, you know, by those trees
07 where the roads split there.
08 Q. In this area?
09 A. Yeah, I would say thirty yards, maybe, forty
10 yards, thirty. Thirty, probably, thirty yards away. And
11 he's just, he's yelling at us, can't recall exactly what
12 he's yelling towards us, but just seemed like he was
13 messed up, like he was on something, you know. At this
14 point he stopped and handed the Tazer off to his girl
15 friend, apparently, Julie, who was sitting in the
16 driver's seat. She's zapping it. So we're like keeping
17 our distance from them. And keep seeing him go like this
18 toward the back seat of the car. The back door was open.
19 So didn't know what was happening then. So he reaches
20 into the back seat of the car, grabs an axe, starts
21 running at us, sprinting at us. At that point we take
22 off, sprinting, I'm running, we're running away. This
23 guy's coming at full speed with an axe cocked, screaming
24 I'm going to fucking kill Gib and Tristan, I'm going to
25 fucking kill you, this and that, out of his mind, just
0076
01 crazy. So I was scared, scared for my life. I have
02 never had anybody pull an axe on me before in my life.
03 I'm assuming none of you guys have, either. You know,
04 what is going to happen in that situation? Obviously
05 it's potentially a threat to your life and others around
06 you. So we're running away from him. I'm running as
07 fast as I can. He's pretty fast. He's catching up to
08 us. And so we're all running towards the direction of
09 the tent, this way. My truck is parked there.
10 Q. Mr. Bolaski, why don't you tell us and then --
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. -- it's hard when you look back to there.
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. We sort of lost contact. So tell us, then we'll
15 use the diagram if we need to.
16 A. I'm sorry.
17 Q. That's okay.
18 A. We're running away from him, obviously everyone is
19 kind of scattering, and me thinking I'm running towards
20 protection of my truck. Corey had locked my truck, he
21 had the keys to my truck, had locked my truck when we got
22 there. And my dog was Inside, and everything else I
23 owned was inside my truck. My truck was locked. He
24 locked it, and through all the turmoil I didn't think
25 that the truck was locked. So I went to get into my
0077
01 truck, possibly in getting away from him and maybe get
02 out of there because this guy's got an axe, an axe
03 Swinging and screaming he's going to kill people. This
04 isn't good, you know, so I go to get into it. I slipped
05 and fall on the ground, and I can feel his feet pounding
06 behind me. I feel coming on to me. I can feel it coming
07 at me. At that moment I thought, all's I could think, my
08 head's going to get pinned against the side of this truck
09 with the axe. Starts hitting the side of the truck,
10 narrowly missing my head. I'm, right in front of my head
11 he starts hitting the side of my truck. Whoa, slow down,
12 he's sticking the axe into the side of my truck. All I
13 can think of, my head's going to get pinned to the side
14 of my truck. I have got to get up, I got to get out of
15 there. So I get myself off the ground. He's sill
16 hitting the side of my truck. And I roll around the
17 front of my truck. He’s still smashing away. My dog
18 inside, who is like my son to me. He's smashing my truck
19 knocking the windows out. My dog's flipping out. He's
20 screaming, I am going to fucking kill you, just out of
21 his mind. I can't explain to you. I never seen, seen a
22 guy that out of his mind. I never seen anything like it
23 in Vermont. You don't expect something like this to
24 happen, things don't happen like this. The axe is just
25 narrowly missing me. It's hitting the side of my truck
0078
01 so loud, I'm so shooken up, I thought I was done right
02 there, I literally thought I was done, it was a matter of
03 survival at this point. I thought one strike with that
04 thing, I'm done. So I went around the front of my truck,
05 I told Corey unlock the truck, unlock the truck. At that
06 point I couldn't get away. He was that close to me. So
07 I rolled to the passenger side of my truck, grabbed the
08 30-06, grabbed the clip out of glove box, put it in, and
09 by the time I came around the back side of the truck, I'd
10 seen him coming at me. I screamed at him, I said drop
11 that fucking axe now, don't come any closer, don't come
12 any closer. He had this crazy look on his face. He was
13 just, hey, just like drooping and his tongue and his face
14 was just like, hey, hey, hey, hey, just like that. This
15 guy is messed up on something, you know, I never seen
16 anything like it. He's a monster. I said drop the axe,
17 don't come any closer, don't come any closer. And he
18 kept coming at me, kept coming at me. I put one in the
19 chamber, I shouldered it, I said don't come any closer.
20 He kept coming, he kept coming, almost to the point
21 where he could get a swing at me. He's got an axe
22 probably this long, one swing could knock, hit me in the
23 head, could hit me in the back, I'd been all done, with
24 one strike of that axe. And just stopping him from
25 coming any closer to me, at this point I feel threatened
0079
01 for my life with that weapon he has. And me trying to
02 disable him from coming any closer to me, I, I fire shot,
03 shoot his leg. At that point when I saw my shot, I
04 didn't know if I had hit him or not because he was still
05 moving so well that he was still moving in, aggressing, I
06 didn't even think that I hit him, I didn't know if I hit
07 him. So at this point I try to put distance between me
08 and him, and he was still, he was still holding the axe,
09 he was ducking around, he was ducking around, trying to
10 get, trying to get at me. So I rolled around, rolled
11 around my truck toward the back. He rolled around the
12 other way, he was coming back around, and at this point
13 I'd seen Corey out of corner of my eye, I knew where
14 Corey was, Corey had run around the back side of
15 vehicles, and he came around, and when I went around one
16 side, I hadn't seen him get into my truck, but I knew
17 Corey was around there, I saw him out of the corner of my
18 eye, and I saw Vinny coming towards Corey, and I never
19 heard the shots that Corey fired from, probably from the
20 ringing of the shot of the -06, but he was still moving,
21 still aggressing, coming forward both of us at this
22 point, because I had come back around, and I saw Corey
23 out of the corner of my eye, I saw him closing in on
24 Corey, never heard the shot that Corey fired, and at that
25 point when I saw him aggressing towards Corey, fired
0080
01 again. Both times I shot were low. I never was aiming
02 above the waist. I was just simply trying to disable
03 him, put him down, because he was never giving up, he was
04 not accepting no for answer, he was never going to give
05 up. He was not. I was scared for myself, and I was
06 scared for my brother. I was not going to let my brother
07 die. Not going to let myself die. One swing with that
08 weapon, it's fifteen pound splitting maul, for me to let
09 my brother get hurt, for myself, or my own safety, I
10 would have never left my brother there, I would have
11 never left him, I would have never ran away. He was
12 coming at both of us, and all I had to do at this point
13 was try to put him down, to disable him. I wasn't aiming
14 for his chest, wasn't aiming for his head. I was not
15 trying to kill him. I was simply trying to stop a mad
16 man that was wielding an axe and coming at me. That's
17 it. And he, he went down after the, the second shot.
18 But I wasn't sure where I had hit him. I knew I hit him
19 low.
20 Q. So what did you do then?
21 A. So after that, after that, I wanted to make sure
22 that he was done. And I saw him moving on the ground. I
23 went up to him, and I was still scared, so shooken up at
24 this point, I just been faced with a life-threatening
25 experience that this guy had imposed on me, and he's
0081
01 moving around, so, well, after the first shot and the
02 second shot, which I aimed low, too, I wasn't quite sure
03 where I hit him, I went up to him, and I had kicked him a
04 a couple times to make sure he was going to stay down,
05 because I was so scared and threatened for my life that
06 at that point I wanted to make sure he wasn't going to
07 get back up. He still had the axe in his hand, and he
08 was, he was, he threatened me that badly that I felt that
09 I did not want him to get back up. If he got back up
10 then, you know, I would have had to keep him down because
11 he was, he was not giving up. Apparently was on some,
12 some type of drugs that he was just so hyped up that he
13 would not, he would not take no for answer. It's like
14 he had a wish to, you know, come at me, and he wasn't
15 giving up. And I had never met the guy before in my
16 life.
17 Q. You still had the 30-06?
18 A. I did.
19 Q. In your hand?
20 A. I did.
21 Q. You didn't just kick him; right?
22 A. I just kicked him two or three times. I went and
23 put the gun back in my truck.
24 Q. But you used the butt of the rifle to hit him?
25 A. To my recollection, I never used the blunt end of
0082
01 the gun to hit him at all.
02 Q. Where's Corey at this point?
03 A. Corey at this point had backpedaled away from,
04 away from the vehicles and put the .22 in the pickup, the
05 green pickup, apparently. I found this out after the
06 fact. Like I said, I never saw Corey with the rifle, but
07 I knew Corey was, I can see him, I know my brother, the
08 corner of my eye I can see my brother there. I know, he
09 was coming at him and he was coming at me, and I fired my
10 second shot. That's all I had to do, at that point. And
11 Corey had ran the other way.
12 Q. So, what is the order of people you, Vinny, and
13 Corey when you fired a second shot?
14 A. What is the order?
15 Q. Yeah, how are you lined up?
16 A. I was coming around the driver's side of my truck,
17 and Corey had the rifle, and he was backpedaling away
18 from Vinny, who was coming at him, intention of drawing
19 him, but I never took my focus off of Vinny, didn't want
20 him to get a point where I didn't know where he was. He
21 wasn't acting like he was hit at that point. All I saw
22 he's coming after my brother, he's coming after my
23 brother. I'm not going to let anything happen to him.
24 I'd do anything for that kid. He's my brother. I'd
25 grown up with him all my life. We've been so close all
0083
01 my life. I would take a bullet for him if I had a
02 choice. I would take a bullet for him. So, when I saw
03 him coming towards Corey, and then when I came around the
04 side of the truck, he saw me, that's when I fired the
05 second shot.
06 Q. So it's you, then Vinny, and then Corey?
07 A. Corey was coming at Vinny. I mean Vinny was
08 coming at Corey, and then I came around and saw that, and
09 then I fired the second shot.
10 Q. So Vinny is in between where you and Corey are?
11 A. Right. But triangle, he was between the vehicles,
12 obviously, to where he, he ended up towards the back of
13 the vehicles.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Fell backward with the axe.
16 Q. Let's go through it again.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Where does Vinny go down?
19 A. Between my truck and Gib's car.
20 Q. So in this area?
21 A. That's correct. But when he was approaching
22 Corey, he was in this area here, and Corey was
23 backpedaling this way, and I was coming around here. I
24 saw Corey out of my peripheral vision, but I had my eyes
25 focused on Vinny.
0084
01 Q. All right. Let me back up.
02 A. Okay.
03 Q. He's coming down towards you with the axe?
04 A. Yes.
05 Q. Which door do you go to, of your vehicle, where do
06 you go?
07 A. We talking before, after or before the first shot?
08 Q. No, I backed up now. Vinny's arrived, you guys
09 have headed up the hill.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you see the axe?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. He's coming down the hill?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. You start running?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. Where do you run to?
18 A. I run to the driver's side of my truck.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. Try to get to the safety of my truck.
21 Q. Do you get the driver's side door open?
22 A. No, it was locked at that point.
23 Q. And at any point do you get in to the driver's
24 side of your vehicle?
25 A. No, I don't.
0085
01 Q. And at any point do you actually get your whole
02 body inside of your vehicle?
03 A. No.
04 Q. You told us you slipped?
05 A. I slipped, I slipped bad, fell to my knees at this
06 point. My truck's right here when he began hitting the
07 side of my truck narrowly missing me, literally all I
08 could think of, I thought my head was going to get pinned
09 against the side of the truck, the force this guy was
10 using, the axe he was pounding the side of the truck, I
11 needed to get off the ground, I needed to move, because
12 my head is going to get pinned against this fender.
13 Q. How many blows to the truck take place while you
14 are on the ground having slipped?
15 A. I'd say somewhere between three and five.
16 Q. And you stay on the ground while he hits the truck
17 three to five times?
18 A. I slipped. He's swinging at me, swinging the axe,
19 hitting the truck, and I'm, I'm trying to get off the
20 ground, I'm trying to get away. As you know when you're
21 on the ground, fully on the ground, it takes a little bit
22 to get it up, especially when you're that shooken up,
23 he's swinging, hitting it, hitting it, probably three
24 times. He smashed the window out of the driver's side,
25 and he hit the back side, and he comes around the back
0086
01 side of my truck at me.
02 Q. How do you get from having slipped at the driver's
03 side door to the other side of your truck?
04 A. I managed to get to my feet, and I pulled myself
05 off the ground. I said I got to get up, I got to do
06 something. At this point it's either get up and do
07 something or I'm going to be hit with this axe.
08 Q. Do you pass front of or behind your truck?
09 A. I go, I go from falling here to getting myself off
10 the ground where he's banging the side of my truck with
11 the axe. I go around this side, get into my passenger
12 side with Corey unlocks the truck because now he has
13 access to my truck, anything in it, and I get the 30-06,
14 which is the most convenient rifle that is there.
15 Q. How do you get in to the vehicle to get the 30-06?
16 A. I open the door.
17 Q. How many?
18 A. One door, reach into back seat where the guns were
19 face down, I get the -06, reach in the glove box, put the
20 clip in, and then he comes around the back.
21 Q. So what direction does Vinny come at that point?
22 A. He comes from around back side of my truck towards
23 me.
24 Q. So you are closer now to the front side of your
25 truck on the passenger side, Vinny's towards the
0087
01 back side of your truck on the passenger side?
02 A. That's correct. Vinny comes around, swings wide
03 more towards Gib's car and is coming at me.
04 Q. All right. Where does shot one take place?
05 A. Shot one takes place in between these two
06 vehicles, my shot, my truck and Gib's car, he's coming at
07 me right here. I'm backpedaling like this telling him to
08 stop, drop the axe, don't come closer. His tongue is
09 like hanging out of his mouth laughing hysterically, ha,
10 ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, has no fear, no fear whatsoever.
11 Q. Where in relation to the front of your truck are
12 you when shot one is fired?
13 A. I'm around this area right here.
14 Q. So you're actually closer to the tent than the
15 front of your truck?
16 A. I'm right, right by the front of my truck.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. In between my truck right about this area here.
19 Q. All right. You know what, why don't you put an
20 S-1 for where you are when you fire your first shot.
21 Let's put a V-1 for where Vinny is when you fire your
22 first shot. Okay.
23 What happens after the first shot is
24 fired.
25 Why don't you, Mr. Bolaski, sit down and
0088
01 tell me. Then we'll see whether we want the drawings or
02 not.
03 A. All right. So Vinny, Vinny goes around this way,
04 tries to get at me this way. I go this way.
05 Q. All right. So you're saying that Vinny actually
06 passes around Gib's vehicle?
07 A. Close to it. Trying to get at like this truck to
08 get a better vantage point at me where he can get up and
09 hit me with it.
10 Q. You travel in what direction?
11 A. This way, put some distance between us this way.
12 Q. Why are you going this way?
13 A. Because he's coming around this way here, he's
14 crouching down trying to get a swing at me, popping up,
15 seeing where I am, and coming around. He was still
16 wielding the axe, looking to get a vantage point at me.
17 Q. You have a gun?
18 A. Right.
19 Q. You're suggesting he's coming after you?
20 A. Right at that point. He was still trying to come
21 at me. He would never give up, never, never was going to
22 give up.
23 Q. What happens next?
24 A. I put some distance between me and him and come
25 around here. I see him dodge around here. At this point
0089
01 Corey apparently had, he had circled around, gotten into
02 the truck, which I didn't have a recollection of
03 at that time. I knew where Corey was. I had seen him.
04 My main focus where Vinny was coming because he never
05 stopped coming at me, never gave up. If he had gaven up,
06 he could have dropped the axe, said I'm all done.
07 Q. Can you, you told us that at some point you see
08 Vinny approaching Corey?
09 A. Right.
10 Q. Can you do a dotted line for Vinny's path of the
11 travel to the point where you then see him focus on
12 Corey.
13 You can stand up.
14 A. And then Corey had obviously gone around this way,
15 I believe, and I had gone -- you want me to do for me?
16 Q. Not draw till I ask, please.
17 A. Okay. All right.
18 Q. Where is Corey?
19 A. Corey is over in this direction here, I believe.
20 Q. All right.
21 A. Like I said, I knew of his general direction,
22 because I'd seen him run around that way from the truck.
23 Q. Can you draw some dots to where you end up where
24 you are when you think Vinny has focused on Corey?
25 A. Where I think I am?
0090
01 Q. Yes, from where you shot the first time.
02 A. Yeah, I go this way.
03 Q. All right.
04 A. He's coming around this way. And I come around
05 kind of the, the back of my truck like up in here, and
06 then Corey apparently had come over here, around, he had
07 made his way around this way, because he saw him still
08 coming at me, so he didn't want apparently Vinny to get
09 at the other gun that was in the truck because this door
10 was open.
11 Q. The passenger side door was open?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Did you become aware at some point of Corey
14 standing within that area of the four vehicles that
15 you've drawn here?
16 A. I, I saw him, I saw him in this area over here.
17 Q. Put a C there, if you would, please.
18 A. It's kind of a C.
19 Q. Okay, we'll call this a C.
20 A. It's a shorthand.
21 Q. Okay. What does Vinny do at that point?
22 A. Vinny focuses attention on Corey.
23 Q. All right.
24 A. So when I come around this way, I see him focus
25 attention on Corey coming around this way.
0091
01 Q. You come around the front of your truck?
02 A. Come around the front of my vehicle, yes.
03 Q. All right. And what prompts you to fire the
04 second shot?
05 A. I see my brother here, and I see him coming
06 towards, Vinny coming towards my brother, and at that
07 point he's facing me, too. So then by the time I fired
08 up, pulled up to take another shot, he's still fully
09 functional, still coming at us, still not getting any
10 sign of backing down, he's still fully aggressive moving
11 fine. I mean, if I had taken a shot to the leg, I would
12 have said, I'm done, but he never dropped the axe, and he
13 never gave up. I saw him going to Corey. I said I'm
14 going to do anything for my brother. I'm not going to
15 let him get at Corey with an axe. I didn't know Corey
16 had a gun.
17 Q. Would you put an S-2 where you were when you fired
18 the second time?
19 A. I believe I was in the, about in the general area
20 of the first shot.
21 Q. And a V-2 --
22 A. And he had --
23 Q. -- for where Vinny was, this a V-2?
24 A. Yeah, yeah.
25 Q. For where Vinny --
0092
01 A. Yep, yep, he ended up right here, back at Gib's
02 car.
03 Q. How about a V-3 for where you think he ended up.
04 How does -- I think you can close your pen
05 cap now -- how far does Vinny get from sport V-2 to spot
06 V-3?
07 A. I mean apparently, he apparently, when you get
08 shot, I mean, you can obviously move five feet, you can
09 obviously manage to go a little bit further, you know.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. It's not like he just dropped right there.
12 Q. He didn't collapse right to the ground?
13 A. He obviously made it to the end of that vehicle
14 because he was standing there when I shot him the second
15 time.
16 Q. When you fired shot two, are you aware of where
17 Corey is at that point?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Where do you think Corey is?
20 A. Corey is right here. Shot two. I saw him out of
21 the corner of my eye. I saw Vinny coming after Corey, so
22 I fired the second shot.
23 Q. How do you know Vinny was coming after Corey?
24 A. I saw him advancing towards Corey, saw Corey
25 backpedaling. I didn't know he had a rifle.
0093
01 Q. Were you aware where shot -- you told us you
02 weren't even sure that he was hit by shot one?
03 A. Right, that's correct.
04 Q. Where were you aiming?
05 A. Low.
06 Q. Low on his body?
07 A. Low on his leg.
08 Q. Where were you aiming for shot two?
09 A. Low on his body. Both shots were low.
10 Q. Are you aware that shot two hit him?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Where did you hit him?
13 A. I thought I hit him in the leg. I was aiming for
14 his leg.
15 Q. For shot two?
16 A. Yes. Both shots were low. Neither shot was
17 intended for kill shot.
18 Q. Say again?
19 A. Neither shots were intended to be kill shots,
20 otherwise they have been above the waist. You know, I'm
21 a good shot. I, I wouldn't, I wasn't trying to kill the
22 man. I was just trying to simply disable him and keep
23 him from causing any further harm or danger to my brother
24 and myself. Meanwhile my dog's flipping out inside,
25 during all of this. And I don't know what's going to
0094
01 happen. This guy's an absolute crazed mad man who is
02 enraged, it seemed to me like a steroid rage, it's what
03 it seemed like to me. He was, he was beyond human power,
04 because any man that takes a shot in the leg and doesn't
05 go down on the first shot, still aggressing coming toward
06 you, is obviously not in the right state of mind or he's
07 obviously on something, some, something that's not,
08 beyond human power. Because I don't, I, if I got shot in
09 the leg, even if it didn't hit bone, I would say this guy
10 means business, I'm not going to come after him with
11 an axe.
12 Q. After Vinny goes down, after you approach him,
13 what do you do with the 30-06?
14 A. I still have it in my hands.
15 Q. What did you do with it?
16 A. I have it in my hand. I kicked him a couple times
17 to make sure he was going to stay down.
18 Q. And then what do you do with the gun?
19 A. I put it in the passenger side of my truck.
20 Q. Did you ever hear Corey fire the .22?
21 A. Never.
22 Q. Did you have an awareness of whether he had a .22?
23 A. Nope, I knew it was in my truck, but I never saw
24 him grab it. My focus was watching where Vinny was
25 going, because he was still trying to come after me,
0095
01 because then I saw him turn on Corey. When he came into
02 the scene, I saw Corey out of corner of my eye, I saw him
03 coming towards Corey, came around, that's when I shot him
04 the second time because he was advancing towards Corey.
05 Q. At the ball field, did you fire any other gun
06 other than the 30-06?
07 A. No, sir.
08 Q. How many shots did you fire?
09 A. Two.
10 Q. How sure are you of that?
11 A. Positive. Hundred percent.
12 Q. Hundred percent?
13 A. Positive.
14 Q. Okay. After you slipped and your truck is being
15 smashed, why didn't you run away?
16 A. After I slipped and my truck was being smashed, I
17 was already, he was already close enough to me at that
18 point that he was closing in on me, he was right there,
19 you know, I had him trashing my truck right beside my
20 head. I thought he was going do kill me, so I thought he
21 was after me, that, I thought my life was in danger.
22 Q. So I'll repeat my question. He was smashing your
23 truck?
24 A. Right.
25 Q. You go around to the other side?
0096
01 A. Right.
02 Q. You open up the truck, you reach in, you get the
03 30-06, you reach in the glove box?
04 A. Right.
05 Q. You load the 30-06?
06 A. Right.
07 Q. Why didn't you run away?
08 A. It's close, the area, fairly small area where you
09 have to run around vehicles. If I had ran through here,
10 I could have been caught by him easily. I mean, there's
11 only so far you can run. There's fences everywhere,
12 fence here, ends right here. It's river and a bunch of
13 woods, and, I mean, I was already, he already tried to
14 kill me with the axe. I had nowhere to go at that point.
15 It was, it was matter of staying alive. Just a matter of
16 survival at that point.
17 JUROR: You said afterwards you went over
18 and you kicked him. Where on his body did you kick him?
19 THE WITNESS: In the back of his head. I
20 just wanted to make sure he stayed down, didn't get
21 back up. He caused tremendous amount of, obviously
22 caused tremendous amount of fear in me. I wanted to make
23 sure he didn't get back up.
24 Yes.
25 JUROR: At this same point, then, you put
0097
01 the gun back in your truck. What made you think you
02 could get the, put the gun away at that point?
03 THE WITNESS: Because I realized he wasn't
04 going to get back up. I was making sure he was staying
05 down. I made sure he stayed down. I put it away because
06 I realized I didn't need it.
07 Yes, sir. There
08 JUROR: Could you tell by the way he was
09 carrying the axe if he was right-handed or left-handed.
10 THE WITNESS: No, sir. I know he had it
11 cocked up like this to his right shoulder. That would
12 mean --
13 JUROR: Maybe he was right-handed.
14 THE WITNESS: Maybe at that point I wasn't
15 paying attention to those details. I was just trying to
16 get a away from him.
17 Yes, ma'am.
18 JUROR: Do you see anyone get access to
19 your gun after you put it away, or any point did the gun
20 go in anyone else's hands in the area?
21 THE WITNESS: My thirty-ought -- my
22 brother's 30-06?
23 JUROR: Yes.
24 THE WITNESS: No, ma'am, stayed right
25 there.
0098
01 Yes, ma'am.
02 JUROR: Did anyone speak to you before the
03 police arrived and after the shot?
04 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I met, I met with my
05 brother, and he calmed me down, comforted me, and told me
06 to just wait here, everything, wait for the cops to come,
07 police to arrive.
08 JUROR: Were you in the same position as
09 you were when you -- where did you go, I guess, after you
10 shot?
11 THE WITNESS: To the front side of my
12 truck where I met Corey. He came back from where he had
13 backpedaled away from Vinny, and he came over to comfort
14 me and try to get me together because I was, obviously I
15 was fairly shooken up as to what just happened.
16 JUROR: Did anyone else come over to the
17 victim after you or while you were there?
18 THE WITNESS: I did see one other man kick
19 him, Tim Arbuckle.
20 JUROR: How do you know Tim?
21 THE WITNESS: Tim is Jerry's, part of
22 Jerry's family or was supposed to be. They are close
23 because Jerry's sister is engaged to Tim's brother, Tom,
24 so they are kind of like part of family.
25 JUROR: Any idea why?
0099
01 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure why he came at,
02 out of nowhere. He wasn't even a part of the whole
03 thing. He was running away. He was away on the other
04 side, so I'm not sure why he came over.
05 JUROR: Since I'm standing, I'm going to
06 ask a couple other ones.
07 THE WITNESS: That's fine.
08 JUROR: What's Vinny doing while you're
09 going around the vehicle opening the vehicle, getting
10 into the vehicle, getting the rifle, getting that stuff
11 together?
12 THE WITNESS: He's making his way around
13 coming towards me.
14 JUROR: Okay. All right.
15 THE WITNESS: At some point I remember him
16 saying fucking, fucking kill, I'm going to mother fucking
17 kill you, just screaming, just out of his mind. I can't
18 even explain the look of his face, looked like he was on
19 something, I mean, above human power.
20 THE WITNESS: Okay. So then you take shot
21 number one from the front of your vehicle towards the
22 back of Gib's car, vehicle, you hit him. Is Vinny facing
23 you at that time?
24 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
25 JUROR: Okay. And then he goes back
0100
01 behind Gib's vehicle?
02 THE WITNESS: Right, he's trying, he's
03 almost trying to gain a vantage point because I know he's
04 not going to be able to confront me, he's trying to get
05 around, he's still got the axe like this, trying to get
06 at me. That's why I put some space between us. I didn't
07 want hi to come back around and get at me. It almost
08 seemed to enrage him, the first shot almost seemed to
09 enrage him and make him angrier and wanted to get at me
10 more.
11 JUROR: In doing that, could you, as you
12 look at your diagram, think of maybe there was a way to
13 go in a different direction to get away from him, I mean,
14 at this point could you have, you know, gone away
15 further, faster, being armed and things like that?
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah, but like I said, I
17 seen my brother out of corner of my eye.
18 JUROR: Okay.
19 THE WITNESS: I saw him coming towards my
20 brother when I made my way around the truck to defend my
21 brother at that point. I didn't realize he had a rifle.
22 I didn't realize he fired two shots.
23 JUROR: Okay. So in that, yeah, fine.
24 Thank you.
25 THE WITNESS: Yep.
0101
01 Yes, ma'am.
02 MR. SAND: Can I stop you. I'm sorry. On
03 what part of Vinny's body did Tim Arbuckle kick Vinny?
04 THE WITNESS: I believe he kicked him many
05 times. I'm not sure how many. I walked away from it.
06 And he actually left the scene altogether. So I believe
07 it was all all over. I'm not sure where exactly. I
08 couldn't tell you. I only kicked him a couple times just
09 to make sure he was down. I wanted, didn't want him to
10 get back up. I don't know why Tim came over. Doesn't
11 make any sense to me.
12 JUROR: Kyle, what was your brother
13 wearing that day; do you remember?
14 THE WITNESS: What was he wearing?
15 JUROR: Yeah.
16 THE WITNESS: Just a pair of shorts and
17 T-shirt.
18 JUROR: What were you wearing.
19 THE WITNESS: I was wearing just a pair of
20 shorts and a pair of sneakers. It was a hot day. I
21 didn't have a shirt on at all.
22 Yes, ma'am.
23 JUROR: When you and Tim were kicking
24 Vinny, did you hear anybody ask, suggest for you to stop?
25 THE WITNESS: When I went over to him, it
0102
01 was only for a brief moment, just to make sure that he
02 was down, and then I, I stopped. I only kicked him a
03 couple times just to make sure He wouldn't be going to
04 get back up.
05 JUROR: You didn't do anything to, you
06 don't hear anybody tell to you stop?
07 THE WITNESS: No.
08 JUROR: Were you kicking him forcefully,
09 or can you, do you remember?
10 THE WITNESS: It was just --
11 JUROR: Were you like, urr, urr, urr?
12 THE WITNESS: It wasn't a hard kick. It
13 was a half kick to make sure he was still, wasn't to get
14 going, to get up. I was so in fear for my life, and I
15 did not want this man to get back up. I did not know
16 what he was capable of. After the first shot he was
17 seemingly unaffected by the first shot, and so I didn't
18 know if the second shot was going to keep him down or
19 not.
20 JUROR: You weren't doing this kind of a
21 kick?
22 THE WITNESS: No, if wasn't a stomp. It
23 was back of my foot.
24 BY MR. SAND:
25 Q. Mr. Bolaski?
0103
01 A. Yes, sir.
02 Q. Anything about the kicks do you think those are
03 kicks that were sufficiently forceful to inflict injury?
04 A. They weren't that strong of kicks.
05 Q. Okay.
06 A. At all.
07 Q. And were you aware of whether Vinny was alive at
08 that point?
09 A. I believe he was, yeah. He was alive still, yeah.
10 Q. But you didn't kick him hard enough to cause
11 injury?
12 A. No, no.
13 Yes, ma'am.
14 JUROR: I'm still confused. I think you
15 said that you saw Vinny kicking him, but then, but so I'd
16 like to have a little clarification.
17 JUROR: Tim.
18 JUROR: I'm sorry, Tim kicking him.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 JUROR: If you did see him kicking him,
21 can you talk about the force of that, or where it was
22 that he kicked him?
23 THE WITNESS: It was kicking him
24 forcefully.
25 JUROR: Where was that?
0104
01 THE WITNESS: I believe it was in his
02 torso, to his head, I believe, forceful kicks.
03 JUROR: Did you see anyone use a weapon on
04 him at this point?
05 THE WITNESS: No, sir -- no, ma'am.
06 JUROR: What conditional was your gun in
07 when you put it away?
08 THE WITNESS: What condition?
09 juror: Did you happen to notice what it
10 looked like, was it still intact as when you took it out?
11 THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah.
12 JUROR: Was it -- what did it look like?
13 THE WITNESS: Just the same as I had taken
14 it out.
15 JUROR: So you say it looked fine, there
16 was --
17 THE WITNESS: Yeah, absolutely.
18 JUROR: Can you tell me, do you remember,
19 second shot, was Vinny facing toward you, half facing
20 towards you, half facing away, or completely facing away?
21 THE WITNESS: When I pulled up, he was
22 facing towards us. He, he had been turned a little bit
23 so --
24 JUROR: You think the bullets struck him
25 in the front?
0105
01 THE WITNESS: He may have been turned just
02 so that it may have entered the back and exited the
03 front. Like I said, by the time I saw him coming, and he
04 may have turned by the time I pulled up, but he was
05 coming at us, I initially pulled up, the reaction time
06 between, you know, when I pulled up and when he saw me,
07 he might have turned.
08 JUROR: Thank you.
09 JUROR: When you fired your second shot --
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 JUROR: -- Corey was to your left?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes.
13 JUROR: And can you give me a guesstimate
14 of the distance between you and Corey?
15 THE WITNESS: Between me and Corey?
16 JUROR: No, I mean you are at the front,
17 he was sort of backpedaling between the two, or were you
18 thinking he might have been a distance --
19 THE WITNESS: I think, see, he was
20 backpedaling away from Vinny trying to put some distance
21 between him and Vinny. Vinny was coming around, he may
22 have been, Corey may have been fifteen feet away from me,
23 twenty feet, maybe,
24 JUROR: Okay.
25 THE WITNESS: Backpedaling.
0106
01 JUROR: Okay.
02 THE WITNESS: Still moving backwards.
03 JUROR: Okay. When Vinny went around
04 Gib's vehicle, and you stated that you wanted to put as
05 much distance between you and him --
06 THE WITNESS: Right.
07 JUROR: -- so you went around the back.
08 When you were at the back of your vehicle, is that when
09 you noticed Corey?
10 THE WITNESS: I saw corey, yes.
11 JUROR: And thus you came around?
12 THE WITNESS: I came around, yeah.
13 JUROR: Okay.
14 THE WITNESS: I felt that he may be in
15 danger, threat. In fact, so he was.
16 JUROR: Vinny was roughly halfway down
17 Gib's car at this point?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 JUROR: Okay, thank you.
20 THE WITNESS: Yep.
21 JUROR: To the best of your recollection,
22 from the time you took the first shot to the time you
23 took the second shot, how much time do you think passed?
24 THE WITNESS: I would say it was a minute
25 or less. Very, it was very intense series of events in a
0107
01 very short period of time. It was no more than a minute,
02 minute and a half. Was very quick.
03 JUROR: When you started your day, how
04 many rounds do you think you had in the .22, in the .22?
05 THE WITNESS: I couldn't tell you that
06 exactly. But, the magazine, tubular magazine holds
07 twenty, twenty-one shots, I believe. So I couldn't tell
08 you exactly how many I had in there.
09 JUROR: You never removed any of them
10 other than by firing that day?
11 THE WITNESS: Right.
12 JUROR: Okay.
13 THE WITNESS: I couldn't tell you exactly
14 how many were in there.
15 JUROR: Backing up a little bit to when
16 you guys are coming back over from Springfield, there's
17 been a heated conversation between Jerry and Kirby slash
18 Vinny, you hear the language, you hear the intensity of
19 it.
20 THE WITNESS: I --
21 JUROR: Go ahead.
22 THE WITNESS: I heard some of it. Like I
23 said, I was in the front seat with my brother. We were
24 listening to some music. Tristan and Jerry were in the
25 back seat talking. I couldn't hear, you know, what was
0108
01 going on. I was in a sense along for the ride. My
02 brother was driving.
03 JUROR: Right.
04 THE WITNESS: So in a sense they were
05 having conversations so I didn't know exactly what was
06 being said.
07 JUROR: Right. But you would say the
08 intensity level was more than your average, hey, what's
09 up, what are you doing? You would say it was more than
10 your friendly phone call?
11 THE WITNESS: It Ended that way because,
12 like I said, Jerry had told me that Vinny got elevated
13 with him because he had asked him to come over to his
14 house.
15 JUROR: Right. You said that Jerry
16 responded, and it was a little bit, forget your words,
17 animated, excited; would you agree that Jerry was little
18 bit worked up by that, too?
19 THE WITNESS: Yeah, when Vinny started
20 screaming at him, he had obviously gotten a little
21 elevated back with him. No way, shape, or form did he
22 threaten him in any way like that.
23 JUROR: Tristan, what's his reaction.
24 THE WITNESS: Tristan's reaction is just
25 he's, he's back there, I mean, I wasn't looking back to
0109
01 see the entire time. I wasn't like, we were driving,
02 they were having this conversation.
03 JUROR: Right.
04 THE WITNESS: I was told after the fact
05 what was going on.
06 JUROR: Okay.
07 THE WITNESS: So it's like I can't tell
08 you exactly what was going on in the back seat.
09 JUROR: Yeah.
10 THE WITNESS: When we were in the front
11 seat, corey and I.
12 JUROR: You mentioned Tristan still
13 hanging on to your dog, though?
14 THE WITNESS: Right.
15 JUROR: Still concerned, still worked up?
16 THE WITNESS: Right.
17 JUROR: Okay.
18 THE WITNESS: Reason for him holding my
19 dog is because I had a basket full of laundry, laundry
20 there, folded. Work clothes were pretty much in my truck
21 all the time. All was doing was working like six, seven
22 days a week. I was doing everything all at once. I was
23 like, and I got caught in the middle of this here.
24 JUROR: And so sometimes in the, sometime
25 between going from Springfield to the time, eleven,
0110
01 twelve miles back over to Chester, this phone call, this
02 fifteen minutes later gets closer to an hour?
03 THE WITNESS: Right. Exactly, forty-five
04 minutes to an hour. We had forgotten all about, you
05 know, for me, it wasn't even that much of a, of a, an
06 issue, because I didn't have anything invested in it. I
07 don't know the guy. I don't know Julie. You know, I had
08 forgotten all about it.
09 JUROR: Did Tristan forget about it?
10 THE WITNESS: Pretty much we all forgot
11 about it. The plan was to go back to Tristan's house,
12 hang out, and he had the protection for the night, and he
13 was going to be all right. But then we got the phone
14 call from Mike, we, led us in that direction. It was
15 kind of like a magnet, almost, that drew us back there, a
16 series of events that was unfortunate.
17 JUROR: Yeah.
18 THE WITNESS: Seriously, Tristan and guns,
19 you go out shooting, he's not familiar with guns, he's
20 not a hunter, he's, most operation he had with guns on
21 video games so --
22 JUROR: Was he very good at, accurate?
23 THE WITNESS: He's good with video games,
24 but, I mean, I showed him the full operation of the
25 weapon and the safety and how to load it, so, it's pretty
0111
01 simple, you know, it's not a complicated thing. I'm
02 fully comfortable with most weapons, most firearms
03 because I've been to hunters' ed, I've hunted since I was
04 ten years old.
05 JUROR: Right.
06 THE WITNESS: So I'm fully -- I wanted to
07 show him the functionability of it before we sent him
08 away with it for the night so I had --
09 JUROR: You showed him how to load it and
10 things like that?
11 THE WITNESS: Yeah, yes, unload it,
12 safety, everything.
13 JUROR: Great. Okay.
14 JUROR: While you were kicking Vinny, you
15 still had your gun in your hand?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 juror: And after you put it away, did you
18 see anyone go near your truck?
19 THE WITNESS: No, I did not.
20 JUROR: Or notice or anything like that?
21 THE WITNESS: No, I did not.
22 Yes, sir.
23 JUROR: You said earlier in the day when
24 you guys were riding around, you tried the .22 to shot
25 it?
0112
01 THE WITNESS: Yes.
02 JUROR: You remember how many shots you
03 shot?
04 THE WITNESS: I don't remember exactly,
05 just target practicing, shooting at knots in the wood in
06 the tree, you know, just, typical stuff.
07 JUROR: You also said when you got in
08 that, when you went back, that that gun was unloaded.
09 THE WITNESS: Unloaded.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it, there was no,
12 there was no cartridge in the chamber.
13 JUROR: But were there any in the tube?
14 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure, exactly.
15 JUROR: Thank you.
16 THE WITNESS: There was none in the
17 chamber, though. To answer that question.
18 JUROR: You're probably aware we talked to
19 a lot of people involved.
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
21 JUROR: Can you explain to me who Jordan
22 is in relation to you and relation to your group of
23 friends?
24 THE WITNESS: She is a friend of ours, she
25 was hanging out with Gib that day, she's friends of
0113
01 Michelle and Tristan. And I dated her briefly. But
02 didn't last long.
03 JUROR: You hadn't dated her for awhile,
04 then?
05 THE WITNESS: Not too long.
06 JUROR: But recently you broken up or --
07 THE WITNESS: Not too recently, no. Few
08 months.
09 Did you have a question? I thought I saw
10 a hand. Yes, sir.
11 JUROR: Going back to the apartment.
12 THE WITNESS: Yep.
13 JUROR: Kind of follow up on this
14 gentleman's question. When you loaded both weapons into
15 the truck --
16 THE WITNESS: Yep.
17 JUROR: -- you said you unloaded,
18 completely unloaded the 30.06?
19 THE WITNESS: Right.
20 JUROR: The magazine was in the glove
21 compartment?
22 THE WITNESS: Right.
23 JUROR: Nothing in the chamber?
24 THE WITNESS: That's right.
25 JUROR: The .22, the same thing?
0114
01 THE WITNESS: I didn't check the .22.
02 The .22, I wasn't sure how many shots were in the actual
03 tubular feed magazine because there was no shots in the
04 actual chamber itself.
05 JUROR: So the gun was still loaded.
06 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure if it was or if
07 it wasn't, to be honest with you. Then I do know there
08 was no shots in the chamber itself.
09 JUROR: I guess I do have a question. Do
10 you know what happened to the dog?
11 THE WITNESS: Actually I was very
12 concerned about my dog that night, because I obviously
13 was held down at the barracks for a long period of time.
14 And he was one of my main concerns and --
15 JUROR: What did you mean by the barracks?
16 THE WITNESS: Down at the state police
17 barracks. I was held there.
18 JUROR: No, no, I'm sorry, I meant what
19 happened to the DOG during this incident; you said he was
20 in the car?
21 THE WITNESS: He was inside the truck
22 going nuts and I wasn't sure what had happened to him. I
23 didn't know what happened to him that Night. I didn't
24 find out until two days after because he had jumped out
25 somewhere in the mix and, you know, obviously he could
0115
01 have been killed in this, too. I mean, he's still
02 traumatized by the smashing of the glass and any loud
03 noises, he's traumatized by it, as well. I mean, he was
04 potentially a threat to be harmed, as well, in this
05 incident. He's like my son. I don't know if any of you
06 guys have animals, either, but, he's, he's my little
07 buddy.
08 Yes, ma'am.
09 JUROR: At any point of all of Vinny's
10 menacing, anybody, all your friends and -- did anybody
11 perhaps go calling to the police?
12 THE WITNESS: I believe Springfield Police
13 Department was called the day before. But, nothing.
14 JUROR: Not during that time that you had
15 this phone call?
16 THE WITNESS: No.
17 Yes, sir.
18 JUROR: You said when you fell down, you
19 were trying to get in, the door was locked?
20 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
21 JUROR: Vinny was swinging at you?
22 THE WITNESS: Swinging at me as I fell on
23 the ground, I could feel him right beside me.
24 JUROR: You said he swung four or five
25 times?
0116
01 THE WITNESS: Right.
02 JUROR: You were still on the ground?
03 THE WITNESS: While I was on the ground,
04 hitting the truck at least three times.
05 JUROR: So you don't think he could have
06 hit you if he really wanted to? You think he was trying?
07 THE WITNESS: I was dodging him. I was
08 trying to move the other way as he was swing, swing,
09 swing, so I'm trying to get up off the ground and get
10 around my truck, put some distance between us.
11 JUROR: Thank you.
12 THE WITNESS: After he was done, he moved
13 around.
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
15 JUROR: We really appreciate your taking
16 the time to answer all the questions.
17 Vinny gets out of vehicle, he has his
18 splitting maul, he starts chasing you guys, bolting
19 straight down the driveway?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
21 JUROR: Or whatever that was, the street,
22 the roadway. Stop anywhere, say anything to anyone, do
23 anything, or is he just hot on your tail chasing right
24 after you guys.
25 THE WITNESS: He was hot on our tail. I
0117
01 do believe that there was, I found out after the fact
02 that there was some brief conversation where he told a
03 girl, Jordan, that he could fucking kill her with an axe,
04 with the axe, but I didn't see any of that.
05 JUROR: And during that time, it had
06 seemed like he was keeping pace with you?
07 THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah, he was keeping
08 pace. I could feel him coming behind me. He's a heavy
09 guy. I could feel the footsteps coming behind me. I was
10 on the ground, I knew he was closing in on me. I felt
11 the first blow right here.
12 JUROR: He swing at, he was taking, as he
13 was chasing you guys down that --
14 THE WITNESS: I mean, he was waving it
15 around, crazily.
16 JUROR: Not like, not, you know swinging
17 it back and forth?
18 THE WITNESS: I mean, he had it cocked up,
19 he was just headed, I mean, could have been going like
20 this, you know.
21 JUROR: Okay.
22 THE WITNESS: I mean, he wasn't -- I mean,
23 it's pretty hard to swing like that. He had it cocked,
24 was coming.
25 JUROR: Okay.
0118
01 THE WITNESS: So.
02 JUROR: Thank you.
03 THE WITNESS: Yep, yes, sir.
04 JUROR: When you made it around the other
05 side of the truck, who unlocked the truck?
06 THE WITNESS: My brother. He had the
07 keys.
08 JUROR: And He was where?
09 THE WITNESS: When he unlocked it, I
10 believe he was making his way, when he was running, he
11 ran around this way, so he was somewhere in that region
12 when he came around, and I saw him coming around.
13 JUROR: So he unlocked it with --
14 THE WITNESS: It's a keyless --
15 JUROR: Keyless?
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah, remote controls.
17 Yep.
18 MR. SAND: Mr. Bolaski.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
20 MR. SAND: Thank you very much.
21 JURORS: Thank you.
22 THE WITNESS: Say, thank you, all you
23 guys. Nice meeting you.
THIS INTERVIEW WAS PLAYED AT THE TRIAL IN IT'S ENTIRETY AND IS WHY KYLE NEVER TOOK THE STAND IN HIS OWN DEFENSE. IT CONTRADICTS HIS ENTIRE GRAND JURY TESTIMONY.
POLICE INTERVIEW BY DET. SGT. WILLIAM JENKINS... 1
1 STATE OF VERMONT
WINDSOR COUNTY, SS.
2
3
STATE OF VERMONT ) WINDSOR DISTRICT COURT
4 ) DOCKET NO. 972-8-08 Wrcr
v. )
5 )
KYLE BOLASKI, ) Digital Recording
6 Defendant. )
_____________________________
7
8
9
10 STATEMENT
11 OF
12 KYLE BOLASKI
13
As recorded on August 17, 2008, at the Vermont
14 State Police Barracks, Rockingham, Vermont.
15
16
17
18 APPEARANCES:
19 DET. SGT. WILLIAM JENKINS
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
1 (August 17, 2008)
2 DET. SGT. JENKINS: All right. This is
3 Detective Sergeant William Jenkins, Vermont State
4 Police. It's August 17, 2008, approximately 2341 hours.
5 I'm here at the state police barracks in Rockingham in
6 the processing room.
7 Q. Sir, I actually haven't even gotten your
8 name yet.
9 A. Kyle Bolaski, K-y-l-e.
10 Q. How do you spell your last name?
11 A. B-o-l-a-s-k-i.
12 Q. A-s-k-i?
13 A. Yep.
14 Q. What's your date of birth?
15 A. 1/4/84.
16 Q. And your address?
17 A. Address right now is in Chester. I just
18 moved to Chester but --
19 Q. Okay. Do you know the road?
20 A. -- I haven't changed my address. It's North
21 Street (inaudible).
22 Q. North Street? Do you have a number?
23 A. It's 197, I think.
24 Q. In Chester?
25 A. Yeah.
3
1 Q. And what's your home phone number?
2 A. All's I have is a cell phone.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. I'm not even sure where that ended up
5 tonight.
6 Q. What's your cell number?
7 A. 376-3766. Officer pulled it out of my
8 pocket.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. I'm not sure if he has that or not.
11 Q. Okay. 376-3766?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Okay. And you understand that I'm recording
14 this, correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Why don't you just tell me what
17 happened.
18 A. All right. I was at the softball field in
19 Chester, and I was visiting with some of my buddies, and
20 one of the kids I was with, he was scared because this
21 kid pulled up in a car and was waiting outside for us,
22 we were -- we were sitting there, and we were trying to
23 figure out what was going on, and in all that, he pulled
24 a ax -- pickax out of his car, and he started running at
25 us with the pickax, threatening us, saying he was going
4
1 to hit us with it.
2 And so I was running back to my truck, and I
3 tried getting into my truck at that point, and he
4 started hitting the side of my truck because I fell on
5 the ground. He was trying to hit -- swinging it at me
6 and he was hitting the side of my truck, hitting my
7 doors, hitting my windows. I had my dog inside. My
8 brother was right there.
9 And at that point, I reached into my truck
10 when he was coming at me with the pickax, and I had a
11 30-06 in my truck that I always carry in my truck
12 because I'm a hunter, and I had been scouting around
13 that day, and it's coyote season, so I always have one
14 in my truck.
15 And at that point when he was chasing me
16 around the side of the -- my truck, I put the clip into
17 the gun in self-defense, and he still approached me with
18 it, with the pickax in his hands swinging it at me
19 saying he was going to come after me, coming at me.
20 Everybody was scared. No one knew what to
21 do. He was a madman, out of control. I was scared for
22 my life, I was scared for my dog, scared for my brother,
23 scared for my friends that were there. Didn't know what
24 to do at that point. So I took the gun out.
25 As he approached me -- he was coming at me
5
1 with the pickax. As he approached me, I -- I warned
2 him, I said step back, you know? It was self-defense at
3 this point. What would anybody else do if they were
4 being approached with a ax, someone swinging it at them,
5 swinging it at their truck, you know? What would you
6 do?
7 I had to react quick, and I took a shot at
8 him at the leg just to try to wound him to keep him away
9 from me, my -- my brother and my dog, everybody that was
10 there. Swinging the ax like a madman. You found it at
11 the scene, correct?
12 Q. We -- I haven't searched the scene or done
13 anything like that, in fact, at all yet, so I'm talking
14 to you first so --
15 A. Okay. So at that point when -- when he came
16 at me, I did fire a shot, and he came at me swinging the
17 ax at me, trying to hit me with it. I was scared. One
18 shot with that ax would have put me down. I tried to
19 get in my truck and he'd smash my windows out of my
20 truck, smash the doors in my truck.
21 So at that point when he refused to not --
22 not lay back and not come at me, I fired at him again
23 because I was scared, you know? He was trying to cause
24 harm to me, my truck, my dog that was in the back seat,
25 my brother that was with me, and I had another friend
6
1 that was with me, and I was scared, was scared for my
2 life, scared for people around me. Anybody that's
3 coming at me -- he had a Taser gun in his hand, he had a
4 ax in his hand coming at me trying -- trying to harm me
5 and do harm to me.
6 If it weren't for that, I wouldn't -- you
7 know, it would have -- never have come to that, but when
8 someone -- when you're faced with that and you have
9 to -- realize you have to do something, it's either
10 going to be you, your friends or your family or this guy
11 that's a madman coming at you with a ax. What -- what
12 do you do at that point?
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. What can you do? He's coming at me. I
15 tried getting in my truck, and I slipped and he swung
16 the ax at me, hit the side of my truck, broke my windows
17 out, broke everything on the side of my truck. At that
18 point, I had nothing else to do. It was either to get
19 hit with the ax -- you know, if he had -- if he
20 connected with me and the ax in my head, what would have
21 happened? I wouldn't be -- I'd be dead myself. So at
22 that point, it was self-defense on my end. I just felt
23 I did what I had to do to -- to stay alive at that point
24 because he was coming at me screaming, yelling. I don't
25 even know who this person is --
7
1 Q. Right.
2 A. -- but I -- I don't have any relationship to
3 him. I don't know who he was. All's I know is he was
4 coming at me with a ax. That's all I -- that's all I
5 know, Officer.
6 Q. Okay. All right. Let's -- let's back up
7 here a little bit. It's important that we go through
8 this step by step. Okay?
9 A. All right.
10 Q. What time did you get to the softball field?
11 A. The softball field?
12 Q. Yep.
13 A. I couldn't tell you exactly what time it was
14 that we got there.
15 Q. Roughly. Morning? Afternoon?
16 A. It was at night.
17 Q. Was it dark yet?
18 A. Not dark yet, no.
19 Q. Okay. So --
20 A. It wasn't dark. It was still light.
21 Q. Okay. Like --
22 A. Plenty of light enough. Maybe it was 7:00,
23 7:30.
24 Q. Seven, 7:30?
25 A. Yep.
8
1 Q. And who did you go with?
2 A. My friend Tristan was driving my truck, my
3 brother --
4 Q. Tristan who?
5 A. Tristan Blanchard.
6 Q. Blanchard?
7 A. Yep.
8 Q. How old is she?
9 A. It's a -- it's a male.
10 Q. Oh, I'm sorry. All right. How old is he?
11 A. He's roughly 20, 21.
12 Q. Twenty-one? He was driving the truck?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Okay. Who else was with you?
15 A. My brother Corey.
16 Q. Where was he sitting?
17 A. He was in the back seat.
18 Q. Which side in the back? Like behind the
19 passenger?
20 A. I can't -- I can't recall. I think he was
21 sitting behind the -- the driver. My friend Jerry Ucci
22 was there as well.
23 Q. Jerry who?
24 A. Jerry Ucci.
25 Q. Is that with a J -- with a G or a J?
9
1 A. J.
2 Q. How do you spell his last name?
3 A. U-c-c-i.
4 Q. U-c-c-i? And where was he sitting?
5 A. In the back seat as well. Along with my dog
6 Howie.
7 Q. What kind of dog?
8 A. He's a husky-collie mix. You haven't heard
9 if he's all right, have you?
10 Q. I don't, but I'm sure --
11 A. I don't know where he ended up in the whole
12 mix --
13 Q. Right.
14 A. -- because he's -- he was in the truck the
15 whole time when the windows were getting smashed up.
16 Q. Husky-collie mix?
17 A. Yep.
18 Q. Okay. Where were you sitting in the truck
19 when you came?
20 A. I was sitting in the front seat.
21 Q. In the passenger seat?
22 A. Yep. Yes. Sorry.
23 Q. Okay. So you -- so it's four of you?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. You, your brother Corey, your friend Jerry.
10
1 I'm sorry. Tristan driving?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. You?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. Your brother Corey and your friend Jerry?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. So four of you?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. And your dog?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. And what -- what truck is yours?
12 A. The Ford F350.
13 Q. Do you know the plate number?
14 A. I'm not sure off the top of my head.
15 Q. What color is it?
16 A. Silver.
17 Q. Silver? And you guys get there 7:00, 7:30?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Okay. And why did you go to the field?
20 A. Because Jerry's friend Tim was there.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. And they were just wrapping up softball
23 so --
24 Q. Jerry's friend Tim?
25 A. Yeah. We stopped in there to see him, and
11
1 they pulled in behind us. This black car was a
2 hatchback or something.
3 Q. Okay. Hold on. So you went there to see
4 Jerry's friend Tim?
5 A. Yeah. There was a few other people there.
6 Q. And -- I mean, was there an event going on
7 there? I mean --
8 A. Yeah, a softball game going on apparently.
9 Q. Softball game going on?
10 A. Yeah. It was just ending, so we stopped in
11 to see what was going on.
12 Q. Were there a lot of people there?
13 A. There was quite a few.
14 Q. Do you know Tim's last name?
15 A. I don't know his last name.
16 Q. And was Tim like in the game at all or was
17 he just watching?
18 A. No, he -- there were -- there was a bunch of
19 people playing softball there.
20 Q. Was he a softball player or --
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. Tim is?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Okay. Now, who pulled in behind you?
25 A. This -- I'm not even sure who they are.
12
1 Apparently they had -- they had a problem with the kid
2 Tristan that was in my truck.
3 Q. Okay. What kind of vehicle were they
4 driving?
5 A. It was a -- a blackish hatchback, four-door
6 car.
7 Q. Four-door?
8 A. I'm not sure of the make of it. I've never
9 even seen them before, any of these people in my life.
10 All's I know is he was running at me --
11 Q. How many people were in the car?
12 A. That car? I'm not sure at all. I don't
13 even know. All's I know is I saw him run at us with a
14 pickax swinging it.
15 Q. Okay. Okay. Hold on. We're going to go
16 through this step by step. Okay?
17 A. Yep.
18 Q. This is very important.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. So when you pull in, do they pull in right
21 behind you or they --
22 A. They were pulled in -- they pulled in pretty
23 much right behind us, yes.
24 Q. Like how many minutes behind you do you
25 think were they?
13
1 A. It was less than -- less than five.
2 Q. Less than five minutes?
3 A. Yeah. (Inaudible).
4 Q. So did you have time to pull in, get out of
5 the truck?
6 A. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We were outside the truck
7 and hanging out there --
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. -- at the softball game.
10 Q. So you got there?
11 A. Yep.
12 Q. And where did you park?
13 A. We parked right where everybody else was
14 parking.
15 Q. Where's that? I'm not real familiar with
16 there.
17 A. Everybody was down there hanging out by the
18 softball field.
19 Q. I'm not real familiar with there. I know
20 you go in the ba -- you go around that building and you
21 turn left.
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Like where were you parked?
24 A. Right where everybody else was parked down
25 there, right --
14
1 Q. Where is that? I'm not --
2 A. -- right by the field. Right behind the
3 field.
4 Q. Behind the field? By the fence or --
5 because like I know the fence goes over there?
6 A. Right. Kind of by the fence, yeah.
7 Q. Okay. Okay. All right. So you guys are
8 there maybe how long?
9 A. Probably five minute -- less than five
10 minutes.
11 Q. Okay. Were all of you out of the truck?
12 A. All of us, yeah.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Everybody was out of the truck --
15 Q. And who were you talking with?
16 A. -- hanging out. My buddy Jerry was talking
17 with Tim and a few other people that were there I
18 knew. I knew a couple people that were there. I --
19 Q. Who were you talking to?
20 A. -- I graduated with them.
21 Q. Okay. Who were you talking to?
22 A. Mo -- I hadn't really had a chance to talk
23 to anybody yet. We were just stopped by to mingle and
24 hang out after the softball game I'd say.
25 Q. So you weren't talking with anybody or --
15
1 A. Not at the moment. It was -- like I said,
2 it's less than five minutes when they came in, so we
3 were just getting out of the truck and talking, you
4 know --
5 Q. Yeah.
6 A. -- hanging out.
7 Q. So this black hatchback, where does -- where
8 does that come -- I mean --
9 A. They rolled in -- they pulled in behind us
10 and they parked outside, and this kid got out with a
11 Taser gun.
12 Q. What do you mean by parked outside?
13 A. Parked outside the parking lot where the
14 softball field is.
15 Q. Okay. So how far away from you did they
16 park?
17 A. It was probably 50 yards away.
18 Q. 50 yards away?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And the kid got out with a Taser gun.
22 Q. Describe the Taser gun for me.
23 A. Taser gun --
24 Q. Yeah, what -- I mean, what did it look like?
25 Was it -- did it look like -- actually look like a gun?
16
1 A. No, Ta -- Taser gun as in just sparking. He
2 was lighting it up, sparking it, walking out around the
3 car, sparking it.
4 Q. What was he saying?
5 A. He was saying -- saying a lot of different
6 things.
7 Q. Like what?
8 A. Just yelling and saying a lot of different
9 things like he was going to come -- come hurt us and
10 hurt my friend Tristan, hurt --
11 Q. Hurt which friend?
12 A. -- hurt everybody.
13 Q. Who was he mad at -- with?
14 A. Who was he mad at?
15 Q. Yeah.
16 A. I don't know who he was mad at. He's -- he
17 was a mad man in general. He just came out, and as soon
18 as he started screaming, he just -- he picked the -- the
19 pickax out of his -- out of the back of his car and he
20 started running towards us.
21 Q. Hold on. But he gets out with the -- with
22 the Taser?
23 A. Right, and he has that in his hand.
24 Q. Okay. And does anybody else get out of the
25 car?
17
1 A. Nobody else got out of the car.
2 Q. Was there anybody else in the car?
3 A. I think there was a driver and maybe another
4 person, I think.
5 Q. And this guy who gets out of the car with
6 the Taser, what's his name?
7 A. From what I'm told his -- I think his name
8 is Vinny.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. I -- I never met the kid before in my life
11 until he started chasing after me.
12 Q. So you never met him before?
13 A. No, never in my life. All's I know, he was
14 chasing after me with a pickax, trying to hit me with
15 it, smash my truck.
16 Q. Where -- was he the driver or passenger or
17 what, this -- this guy Vinny?
18 A. I'm not even sure. All's -- when I -- when
19 I -- we got -- we were there hanging out --
20 Q. Yeah.
21 A. -- and I -- we looked up and we saw him
22 standing out there with a Taser gun zapping it, zapping
23 the Taser gun.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. And --
18
1 Q. What did he do then?
2 A. He was just standing there, and then he
3 started coming towards us. He reached into his back
4 seat and grabbed a pickax.
5 Q. What did he do with the Taser?
6 A. The Taser -- I'm not sure what happened with
7 the Taser.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I'm not sure where he put the Taser. My --
10 my --
11 Q. Describe what the guy looks like for me.
12 A. He was tall, dark hair.
13 Q. Like how tall?
14 A. About six foot.
15 Q. Okay. Dark hair?
16 A. Dark hair.
17 Q. How long?
18 A. I can't even tell you, it happened so quick.
19 I think it's fairly --
20 Q. I mean, is it like -- is it like a buzz cut
21 or like a --
22 A. I think it's fairly short.
23 Q. Short?
24 A. Yeah. Tattoos up and down his arms. Big
25 guy.
19
1 Q. Like how much do you think he weighed
2 roughly?
3 A. Roughly 250. It's hard to tell because the
4 best shot I got --
5 Q. What was he wearing?
6 A. What's that?
7 Q. What was he wearing?
8 A. What was he wearing?
9 Q. Yeah.
10 A. A black wife beater, pair of shorts, I
11 think.
12 Q. Pair of shorts?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Okay. So you don't know where the Taser
15 went?
16 A. I'm not sure what he did with the Taser.
17 Q. Okay. And where did -- and you said he got
18 the ax out of the back seat?
19 A. Ax out of the back seat and started running
20 towards us.
21 Q. Describe the ax for me.
22 A. The ax was a -- a sharp -- ax on one end and
23 it looked like a pick on the other. I believe they call
24 it a pickax.
25 Q. Well, see, to me a pickax is like -- and I
20
1 just want to make sure we got our -- our, you know --
2 A. Yeah. I can --
3 Q. -- description down, you know what I mean?
4 But to me, a pickax is like a -- one of those axes with
5 like a -- you know, a pick on this side about this long
6 and then like kind of a blade on one side and it's
7 actually for digging.
8 A. That's what it looked like to me, yes.
9 Q. See what I'm saying?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. It's like one of those that's got like kind
12 of a flat blade on one side and like a --
13 A. Right.
14 Q. -- like a skinny poke --
15 A. Right.
16 Q. -- poker on the other end --
17 A. Right.
18 Q. -- for like real hard ground --
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. -- so you can kind of slam it into the
21 ground --
22 A. That's what it looked like to me.
23 Q. -- and you can use the blade to -- to dig?
24 A. Once again, I'm not sure exactly what --
25 Q. It's -- and between the poker and the -- and
21
1 the flat part, it's probably about this --
2 A. Right.
3 Q. -- this long. It's pretty big.
4 A. Right. Absolutely.
5 Q. Is that what we're describing here?
6 A. Yep. Absolutely.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Pickax.
9 Q. So not like a wood chopping ax?
10 A. No, it wasn't -- it wasn't a small ax.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. All's I saw was him running at me with it,
13 but I got a good enough look at it where it wasn't a
14 small wood ax. It was -- looked like a pickax to me.
15 Q. Looked like a pickax?
16 A. It did. It looked like bigger than a
17 regular ax.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. To me.
20 Q. Do you remember what color the handle was?
21 A. I don't remember what color the handle was.
22 I think it was a wood handle.
23 Q. You think it was a wood handle?
24 A. I -- I believe it was.
25 Q. Do you remember what the top of it look --
22
1 you know, what the -- what color the -- the blades or
2 whatever were?
3 A. The blade was just steel. Steel blade it
4 looked like to me.
5 Q. I mean, do you know if like it was painted a
6 color or anything?
7 A. I don't. All's I remember is he was
8 carrying it and running it -- running at me. I tried to
9 get in my truck and he smashed my windows.
10 Q. Let's go through it step by step. Okay?
11 A. All right.
12 Q. Okay. So he gets -- he gets this pickax --
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. -- out of the back seat, and what's --
15 what -- exactly what does he do next?
16 A. He runs. Runs towards us.
17 Q. Like -- like -- like a --
18 A. Full out run.
19 Q. -- full out run?
20 A. Yeah. Running at us.
21 Q. And when you say towards us, who is us?
22 A. Me, my brother, Tristan.
23 Q. And your brother's name is what?
24 A. Corey.
25 Q. Did you tell me that? Yeah.
23
1 A. Corey.
2 Q. What's Corey's last name?
3 A. Corey Bolaski. Same --
4 Q. Same as you?
5 A. -- same last name. There was -- there was
6 actually a bunch of other people that -- that came out
7 to see what was going on.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I'm not sure who -- they were softball
10 players. They were just concerned with what was going
11 on. There was --
12 Q. Okay. So he's running at you and who el --
13 A. And everybody -- everybody.
14 Q. And -- you and Corey and who else?
15 A. Every -- everybody that came out to that
16 point, you know.
17 Q. So it was a like group?
18 A. There was a whole group of us there so --
19 Q. But who is he directing this run at?
20 A. Everybody. Anybody that he -- he could --
21 he could stop and catch up with, you know? Anybody that
22 he felt was a part of what was going on, and I wasn't
23 even something that was going on with it. You know, I
24 don't even know who he is. But anybody that was in his
25 path, he -- he was coming after you.
24
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. And I tried to get in my truck.
3 Q. Hold on. So he's running towards you guys?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. What do -- and what do you do?
6 A. I run, take right off. I'm scared.
7 Q. You run which way?
8 A. Scared. Running back to my truck. Just
9 trying to get in my truck. Scared.
10 Q. Okay. You're running back to your truck?
11 A. There was someone chasing me with a ax.
12 Q. Okay. And what happens next?
13 A. I try to get in my truck. I fall on the
14 ground. My brother was running around the other side of
15 my truck --
16 Q. You fall on the ground where?
17 A. In front of my truck.
18 Q. Like in front of the grill or the side?
19 What do you mean?
20 A. Because I -- I tried to open the door to get
21 into my truck.
22 Q. Yeah.
23 A. And he was coming behind me, and I had
24 slipped trying to get in my truck, and at that point I
25 got myself off the ground.
25
1 Q. So -- so in other words, when you fall, are
2 you next to the door, are you next to the front? Where
3 do -- where do you fall in relation to your truck?
4 A. Next to the front door.
5 Q. Next to the front door?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. Which side, driver's or passenger?
8 A. Right on the driver's side.
9 Q. The driver's side?
10 A. Yep. I was trying to get inside somewhere
11 and it was --
12 Q. And how bad do you fall like?
13 A. Pretty bad. I fell to my knees.
14 Q. You fell to your knees?
15 A. I slipped on the grass.
16 Q. Okay. What happens next?
17 A. I was trying to get in my truck. So I try
18 to get in my truck and I slip, never even make it into
19 my truck, and when I slip, my door is wide open, so I
20 close the door and I run around the back side of the
21 truck. At that point, he had caught up with me.
22 Q. And the door is open why? Did you open it
23 or it was already open?
24 A. The door was open wide. Yeah. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Which? Which?
26
1 A. The door was open -- I opened the door up to
2 try to get in to -- out of cover so he wouldn't hit me
3 with the ax.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. But I slipped. I didn't have time to get in
6 because he was already caught up to me.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. So I closed the door and I ran around to the
9 back side of my truck, and at that point he smashed my
10 doors, my windows, everything, telling me he's going to
11 hurt me, going to fucking hurt me, everything else,
12 going to kill --
13 Q. Where are you when he's smashing the doors
14 and the windows?
15 A. I went to the other side of the truck.
16 Q. So you were on the other side of the truck?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Like the passengers side or the driver's
19 side?
20 A. Yes, sir. Passenger side.
21 Q. Okay. And where -- which side -- where is
22 he smashing?
23 A. By the driver's side.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. The side where I tried to initially go into
27
1 because it was closest --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- to -- to get into my truck.
4 Q. Okay. Okay. What happens next?
5 A. At that point, he's smashing my truck. My
6 dog is inside, and he won't stop smashing the side of my
7 truck.
8 Q. How many times do you think he's hitting
9 your truck?
10 A. He hit it at least four times, three to four
11 times.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. (Inaudible) smashing my truck --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- threatening me, saying he's going to
16 hit --
17 Q. What's he threatening you with?
18 A. Saying he's going to hit me, this and that.
19 Q. Like what is he saying to threaten you?
20 A. He said he's going to -- he said he was
21 going to hit me with the ax.
22 Q. Said he was going to hit you with the ax?
23 A. Chasing me around, around my truck.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. So I went to the other side of my truck, and
28
1 in the back seat, I had my rifle, which I had used
2 earlier.
3 Q. When you say the other side, you're talking
4 about --
5 A. The passenger's side.
6 Q. Okay. And he's where now?
7 A. And he's still on the driver's side --
8 Q. Still on the driver's side.
9 A. -- but he's approaching -- he's coming
10 around the other side trying to get to me now after he
11 smashed my truck.
12 Q. Coming around which side, the back or the
13 front?
14 A. Coming around the passenger's side of the
15 truck. From the driver's side.
16 Q. Right, but which -- is he coming around the
17 back of the truck or the front of the truck?
18 A. From the back of the truck.
19 Q. He's coming around the back of the truck?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. You know what I'm saying?
22 A. The back of the truck, yep.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. The bed of the truck.
25 Q. Okay.
29
1 A. So at that point, I had a rifle in my truck.
2 Q. Where was it in the truck?
3 A. In the back seat.
4 Q. Like laying on the back seat or under the
5 seat or where?
6 A. It was laying in the back seat. I had it --
7 I keep it in there at all times.
8 Q. Right, but where is it?
9 A. It's right in the back seat, on top of the
10 back seat.
11 Q. On top of the back seat?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Like if I opened your truck, would it just
14 be laying there on the back seat on the top?
15 A. Right underneath -- it was right underneath
16 the back seat. There's a spot where you can sit it
17 underneath the back seat. I normally have a gun rack,
18 that I keep it in the gun rack but just where --
19 Q. Right. But I just need to know where it
20 was. Was it -- because you said it was on the back
21 seat.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Was it on the back seat or under the back
24 seat?
25 A. It was in the back seat of the truck.
30
1 Underneath the back seat of the truck.
2 Q. So was it on the floor?
3 A. There's a bench seat -- yeah, there's a
4 bench seat in the back of my truck.
5 Q. There's a bench seat?
6 A. It was underneath there. Yes. Yes, sir.
7 Q. So was it on the floor?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. All right. And is that truck a four-door or
12 a two-door or what is it?
13 A. It's a four-door.
14 Q. Like four full doors?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. So did you have to open the door to
17 get it?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Okay. Okay. What did you do then? So
20 you -- you open the door?
21 A. So I was really worked up. I -- I was
22 scared, you know? He was coming around the back of my
23 truck --
24 Q. Yeah.
25 A. -- with the ax --
31
1 Q. Yeah.
2 A. -- threatening me, and I didn't know what to
3 do. My dog was in there, and he's circling my truck,
4 smashing my windows out --
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. -- coming after me with the ax, and he's
7 still got a Taser somewhere.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. So he's approaching me, and I put a clip
10 into my gun.
11 Q. But how did you get the rifle out?
12 A. How did I -- I took it out with my hands.
13 Q. Okay. And when you pulled it out, where --
14 where is the clip?
15 A. The clip --
16 Q. Where's the magazine? Is it in it or where
17 is it?
18 A. No, I keep the clip in my glove box. Keep
19 it in there.
20 Q. Okay. So how did you get that?
21 A. Grabbed that too. Grabbed it, put it in.
22 Q. Okay. So you --
23 A. By the time he came around the truck --
24 Q. How -- how could you have gotten that if
25 you're in the back seat and you got the door open?
32
1 A. Because it's a four-door and they fold out.
2 Q. Yeah.
3 A. I pulled the rifle out and I put the clip
4 in.
5 Q. Okay. So you pull the rifle out?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. And then exactly what did you do next? See,
8 I'm just trying to get you to go step by step for me.
9 Okay?
10 A. Right. I understand what you're saying.
11 Q. So you pull the rifle out?
12 A. After I got the rifle, I got the clip --
13 Q. Out of where?
14 A. -- out of my glove box.
15 Q. So you got -- then -- so you pull the rifle
16 out and you get the clip out of your glove box?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. That's all I'm trying to get you to
19 do. Okay? All right.
20 A. All right. Yeah. So then I put it in there
21 just for protection.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. I told him to stop. I said don't come any
24 further.
25 Q. Now, when you put the -- the clip in and --
33
1 and just because some people don't understand what a
2 clip is and we call a magazine --
3 A. It's a magazine.
4 Q. -- and it holds -- holds the --
5 A. Right.
6 Q. -- cartridges or the bullets, right?
7 A. Right. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Did you have bullets in it or cartridges in
9 the -- in the clip?
10 A. In the clip, yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. How many?
12 A. I think there was three or four.
13 Q. Three or four?
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. Do you -- was it full?
16 A. The clip was full, yeah. I always keep
17 the --
18 Q. Okay. How many does it hold?
19 A. -- I always keep the clip full.
20 Q. Okay. And how many does it hold?
21 A. I think it holds five altogether.
22 Q. Five?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. So how many were in there?
25 A. Five.
34
1 Q. Five?
2 A. Yep. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. All right. How do you get -- well,
4 was the rifle loaded at all when you first grabbed it?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Okay. So you grabbed the rifle, you grabbed
7 a clip?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. What do you do then?
10 A. I warn him not to come any closer towards
11 me.
12 Q. Okay. But did you load the rifle? You know
13 what I mean?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. Like when did you load the rifle?
16 A. When he came -- when he was approaching me.
17 As he approached me, then I loaded it. When I warned
18 him not to come any further, then I loaded the rifle.
19 Q. Okay. So for -- that's why it's real
20 important that you go -- okay? So first you grabbed the
21 rifle, then you grabbed the clip?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. And then exactly what happens next?
24 A. Then I warn him not to come any closer to
25 me.
35
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. I warn him that if he comes closer and he
3 has his ax, he's going to hit me with it, I said you're
4 not -- it's not going to happen, don't come any closer
5 to me with that ax.
6 Q. Okay. Where are you standing when you said
7 that?
8 A. Right beside my truck. Right -- still --
9 Q. And where is he?
10 A. He's coming around the back side of my
11 truck.
12 Q. Okay. Okay. What happened then?
13 A. So when I warned him not to come any
14 further, he's -- he kept coming.
15 Q. Did he say anything?
16 A. Like a madman.
17 Q. Did he -- did he --
18 A. Threatening me, saying he was going to hit
19 me with the ax, saying that I'm in trouble, this and
20 that. I said -- I said nothing more than I said don't
21 come near me, don't come near me with that ax, don't
22 come near me --
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. -- warned him. He's swinging -- swinging
25 the ax in my truck, coming around the back side, coming
36
1 at me, coming at my brother. My brother ran. Everybody
2 else is scattering. He's coming directly at me --
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. -- because -- I don't know why. He was
5 chasing me back to my truck and I tried getting in.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. So when he -- he came around the truck, I
8 warned him, I said don't come any closer, don't come any
9 closer, and he was going to swing it at me and I gave
10 him a warning shot.
11 Q. Whoa, whoa, whoa. So -- but you haven't
12 loaded the rifle yet you said when you first told him
13 not to come?
14 A. Right. Right. But as he appro --
15 Q. Okay. So you tell him not to go closer
16 and --
17 A. -- as he -- as he -- yep. As he approached
18 me.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. As he approached me after I warned him,
21 that's when I loaded it.
22 Q. Okay. How did you load it? Like what did
23 you -- tell me what you did.
24 A. Put the clip -- the clip -- I put the clip
25 in and then pulled the lever back to load a cartridge
37
1 into the chamber.
2 Q. Pulled the lever back?
3 A. Yep.
4 Q. What kind of rifle was it?
5 A. It's a 30-06 semi-automatic.
6 Q. Semi-automatic?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. What brand?
9 A. A Remington.
10 Q. Remington?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. Do you know what the model number is?
13 A. Model seven -- 7200.
14 Q. 7200?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. Okay. It's a semi-auto?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Okay. So you'd had to put the clip in, pull
19 the slide back?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. And you let it go?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Did you let it go?
24 A. Yep.
25 Q. Okay.
38
1 A. As he was approaching me.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Threatening me with the ax.
4 Q. Okay. Okay. Then what happened?
5 A. So as he approached me and --
6 Q. So at this point, you know the rifle is
7 loaded?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. Right. And as he approached me, threatening
11 me with the ax, I gave him a warning shot in the leg as
12 he approached me swinging the ax at me.
13 Q. So you shot him in the leg?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. Which leg?
16 A. I believe it was the right leg.
17 Q. Okay. And where were you standing when you
18 fired that first shot?
19 A. Right beside my truck.
20 Q. Like had you backed up at all, were you
21 right next to -- were you still right by the door?
22 A. Pretty much the same spot.
23 Q. Which is where?
24 A. Right by the passenger's side door.
25 Q. Right by the passenger's side door. And
39
1 where was he when you fired the first shot?
2 A. Coming around the back side of my truck.
3 Q. Okay. Had he turned the corner yet?
4 A. Yep. He was coming around and up that side
5 of my truck.
6 Q. So how far away do you think he was?
7 A. He was probably 15, 20 feet away.
8 Q. Fifteen, 20 feet away?
9 A. Yeah. Coming -- closing in on me.
10 Q. Okay. Was he walking, running? What was he
11 doing, you know, when you first shot?
12 A. He was running.
13 Q. Was he -- where was he standing?
14 A. He was running.
15 Q. Running?
16 A. Walking, running towards me. Fast. Coming
17 at me, closing in.
18 Q. Which one, walking or running?
19 A. He was walking very fast.
20 Q. Walking fast.
21 A. Borderline running. More like a jog, you
22 know, chasing me.
23 Q. Okay. And had he cleared the back of the
24 truck? In other words, could you see all of him or was
25 some of him obscured by the back of the truck?
40
1 A. I could see all of him coming at me.
2 Q. Okay. All right.
3 A. I was -- he was closing in on me with the
4 ax, coming at me.
5 Q. So you think you shot him in the right leg?
6 A. I think so.
7 Q. Okay. And then what happens then?
8 A. So then he -- after that happens, he
9 continues to chase me around the vehicle, running
10 around, circles.
11 Q. So he continues forward after you shot him
12 in the leg?
13 A. Trying -- trying -- yes, sir.
14 Q. Did you -- do you know if you hit him or
15 not?
16 A. I didn't -- I didn't know if -- I wasn't
17 sure if I had hit him or not. All's I know is I was
18 trying to stop him from getting at me and my dog and my
19 truck.
20 Q. Did he seem like he was hit?
21 A. I think he -- it seemed like he was hit.
22 Q. Why? What did he do?
23 A. Because he had started limping a little bit.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. But then it still didn't slow him down any.
41
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. He still continued to come at me.
3 Q. Okay. When you say he was chasing you,
4 what -- did you move or --
5 A. Yeah, at that point I stepped back because
6 he was still coming towards me --
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. -- so I ran around my truck and he ran
9 around -- ran around my truck chasing me with the ax
10 still, and I said stop, you know, I told him to stop, I
11 said don't, don't, don't. I was scared, scared for my
12 life because he was coming at me with a ax, and at that
13 point he still continued to chase me around my truck,
14 and I believed he was trying to injure me.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. He was telling me he was going to. He was
17 smashing my truck.
18 Q. All right. But let's just stick with what
19 he actually did and what happened. Okay?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. So he's coming at you, you shoot him in the
22 leg --
23 A. Right.
24 Q. -- and then you go where?
25 A. I go around the front side of my truck.
42
1 Q. Okay. You go around the front side of your
2 truck?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. And what does he do?
5 A. He follows me --
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. -- chasing me around --
8 Q. And then what happened?
9 A. -- limping. So I tell him to stop and to
10 not follow me --
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. -- leave me alone. You know, I was
13 scared --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- worried, what was going to happen with
16 that ax. So he -- he --
17 Q. Okay. Does he -- does he still have the ax
18 in his hand?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. Yes, sir. So I believed he was trying to --
22 trying to hurt me with it, and he wouldn't stop chasing
23 me, kept following me around the truck, following me
24 around.
25 Q. Well, when you say that, I mean, how far
43
1 around the truck did he follow you?
2 A. All the way around. We went all the way
3 around the truck.
4 Q. How many -- like all the way around?
5 A. He kept trying to do --
6 Q. Did he --
7 A. -- he kept trying to dodge -- dodge around
8 trying to get at me, trying to come at me and wasn't
9 presenting me with any type of -- after he had been hit,
10 he wasn't presenting me with any type of -- he was
11 trying to sneak around and try to get at me from behind,
12 basically what was trying to happen, but when he came at
13 me the last time --
14 Q. I mean, did he change direction, you know
15 what I mean, or did you go around the truck one way
16 or --
17 A. Pretty much. He was -- he was following me
18 around, and once I -- once I came back around the other
19 side, he switched and went back around -- he switched
20 directions.
21 Q. He switched directions?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. And he came after me again.
25 Q. I mean, how many times -- I mean, how
44
1 long -- how many times did you go around the truck?
2 A. It was probably, I don't know, once.
3 Q. Once?
4 A. Once and a half.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Twice. But he was still on -- on my trail
7 so --
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. When he presented -- when he came at me
10 again with the ax, I shot him again.
11 Q. Okay. Where were you then?
12 A. I was right in the same spot as where we had
13 started.
14 Q. Same spot as you started?
15 A. Yeah --
16 Q. By the passenger --
17 A. -- because we had been around the truck and
18 then --
19 Q. And where was he this time?
20 A. Right at the back end of my truck.
21 Q. Back end of the truck again?
22 A. Yep. There was another car parked there
23 beside us, too, and he ended up right there.
24 Q. So you shot him again?
25 A. Yes, sir.
45
1 Q. And where did you shoot him this time?
2 A. It was in his general direction. I was
3 going for his leg, just try to wound him, try to keep
4 him slowed down so he wouldn't come at me.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. That's what I was trying to do.
7 Q. And did you hit him this time?
8 A. I believe I did.
9 Q. Okay. Where did you hit him?
10 A. I'm not sure.
11 Q. You're not sure? Well, what happened then?
12 A. At that point, he went down, and everybody
13 that was there scattered, and the police were called and
14 now I'm here.
15 Q. Okay. So he went down at that point?
16 A. He did, yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. And what did you do after he went
18 down?
19 A. I made sure that he -- I made sure that I
20 wasn't going to be threatened any longer and --
21 Q. What -- how did you do that?
22 A. I went up to him and made sure that he
23 wasn't going to come after me anymore.
24 Q. What did you do?
25 A. That's it. I looked at him, made sure he
46
1 was down, and then I went to my truck to find out if my
2 dog was all right.
3 Q. Did you check -- I mean, you say make sure
4 he was down. Like what did you -- what did you do to
5 him?
6 A. Nothing. I just made -- I didn't -- I was
7 making sure that he wasn't going to get back up and come
8 after me again with the --
9 Q. Okay. Did you touch him?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you check for a pulse, did you --
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Okay. And what was his condition?
14 A. I didn't want to get anywhere near him
15 because --
16 Q. What was his condition at that point?
17 A. I don't think good.
18 Q. Okay. And how close did you come?
19 A. I just got close enough to see --
20 Q. Like how (inaudible)?
21 A. -- make sure -- make sure that I wasn't
22 going to turn around to go get my dog and make sure he
23 wasn't going to get up and try to stab me with that ax
24 again.
25 Q. Okay. How close? How many feet?
47
1 A. Probably five.
2 Q. Five feet?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. So after you check him -- how long do
5 you check him for? How long are you over there?
6 A. Not long. Not long.
7 Q. Like how long?
8 A. My concern was with my dog, to make sure my
9 dog was all right because there was broken glass
10 everywhere.
11 Q. Okay. And so how long do you think you were
12 over by him?
13 A. Not long at all.
14 Q. Like -- give me a time. 30 seconds? A
15 minute?
16 A. Less than that. Two seconds.
17 Q. Two seconds. Okay.
18 A. I didn't want to be anywhere near him at
19 that point because I didn't know if he was going to get
20 back up and try to chase me again swinging -- swinging
21 that ax at me.
22 Q. What did you do -- so after you leave him,
23 what do you do then?
24 A. Went to check on my dog.
25 Q. Okay. And then what?
48
1 A. Went over to my truck and made sure that, A,
2 he was all right, but I never found him.
3 Q. The dog.
4 A. I'm not sure what happened with him.
5 Q. Okay. And then what did you do? So the dog
6 wasn't in the truck anymore?
7 A. I don't believe he was.
8 Q. Okay. What did you do then?
9 A. I didn't see him. I'm worried about him
10 actually. At that point, the cops came, police came.
11 Q. How long after?
12 A. Pretty -- pretty quick after. It was
13 probably less than ten minutes. Five minutes.
14 Q. Okay. So what are you doing in the five
15 minutes that you're waiting or that the police aren't
16 there?
17 A. I was just -- just standing there. I didn't
18 know what -- I was shocked. I didn't know what had
19 happened.
20 Q. Did anybody go over by the -- the guy who
21 was shot?
22 A. I don't think so.
23 Q. Nobody did? Did anybody start doing any
24 kind of CPR or trying to help him or anything like that?
25 A. No.
49
1 Q. Did anybody move him?
2 A. No. He just -- where he was is where he
3 was.
4 Q. Where was the ax?
5 A. The ax is right in his hand.
6 Q. In his hand?
7 A. Yeah. He dropped it as soon as he hit the
8 ground.
9 Q. Was it still in his hand?
10 A. When he hit the ground?
11 Q. Yeah.
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. How about after he was on the ground?
14 A. After he was on the ground, it wasn't in his
15 hand.
16 Q. Okay. Where was it?
17 A. Laying beside him.
18 Q. What did you do with the rifle?
19 A. Put the rifle in the truck.
20 Q. In the truck?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. Okay. Where in the truck?
23 A. I believe it was in the front seat.
24 Q. Okay. Is it still loaded?
25 A. I'm not sure exactly where --
50
1 Q. Was it still loaded when you put it in the
2 front seat?
3 A. There probably was a couple shots left in
4 there.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. I don't -- if I put a whole clip in there
7 then --
8 Q. Okay. Well, did you put a whole clip in?
9 A. At -- initially, yes.
10 Q. Initially, yeah.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you're saying the spot wasn't full with
13 five rounds. You just told me it was.
14 A. Right.
15 Q. Okay. Yes?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. So nobody went over there to help him out or
18 do anything like that?
19 A. No. I wanted to stay as far away from him
20 as I could. I didn't know what he was capable of, what
21 was going to happen.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. I was scared shitless to be honest with you.
24 Q. All right.
25 A. Never had anybody run at me with an ax
51
1 before in my life.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I was scared. I didn't know what to do. He
4 was a threat to my brother, threat to my dog, threat to
5 me, smashed my property.
6 Q. The second time you shot him, where do you
7 think you hit him?
8 A. I'm not positive. I was -- I was shooting
9 for his leg, trying to stop him, slow him down just to
10 keep him away from me.
11 Q. Was he -- how was he positioned to you?
12 A. Running at me.
13 Q. So --
14 A. Still moving at me.
15 Q. So was he facing you?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. When you fired the last shot, he was facing
18 you?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. You couldn't see where he was
21 bleeding from? I mean, you have no idea where he was
22 hit?
23 A. I didn't want to be anywhere near him,
24 Officer. I was scared out of my gourd. He was coming
25 at me. He's a big guy with a ax. I didn't want to be
52
1 anywhere near him.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. He was coming at me and threatening me,
4 smashing my truck.
5 Q. Okay. So you don't know where you hit him?
6 A. I have no idea.
7 Q. Any -- any guess?
8 A. I have no idea, Officer.
9 Q. After you shot him that last time, how long
10 did it take before he went down on the ground?
11 A. He went down pretty quick. Stopped --
12 Q. Like how quick?
13 A. -- stopped him right there. He didn't go
14 much further.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. He was coming towards me and he stopped
17 right there.
18 Q. How many times did you shoot in total?
19 A. Two.
20 Q. Just two times?
21 A. Two times. Yes, sir.
22 Q. You're sure?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Positive?
25 A. Positive.
53
1 Q. So when we look at the magazine or the clip
2 in the rifle, there should be three more rounds left?
3 A. Right. But I'm not sure how many rounds
4 were actually in that clip.
5 Q. Why's that?
6 A. I'm not positive. I always keep a cartri --
7 the clip loaded. I don't know how many shots were in
8 there actually today. Understand that?
9 Q. Um hum.
10 A. I shot twice. I don't know how many shots
11 are left in there.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. There could be four -- I always keep the
14 mag -- the clip loaded with some --
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. -- because I'm always -- I scout all the
17 time. I'm a deer hunter, coyote season.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. I shoot coyotes. I always have a clip
20 loaded. Not the -- not the actual rifle but the clip.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. I always have cartridges in it.
23 Q. All right. All right. This is -- this is
24 important. Okay? And you got to understand. Okay?
25 Obviously I know that -- I mean, there's a reason why
54
1 this guy was there and he was that mad. I mean, this --
2 this is -- didn't just happen out of the blue. Okay?
3 This didn't just -- like all of a sudden this madman
4 showed up at the field coming after you guys and there's
5 no history here. Okay?
6 A. Right. They --
7 Q. Okay? Let me finish.
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Okay? Now, what you're looking at is a
10 whole lot bigger than whatever else -- whatever the
11 reason was. Okay? I don't know if it was drug stuff, I
12 don't know if it was feuding stuff, I don't know if it
13 was over females. I don't know what it was right now.
14 Okay? But whatever it was, okay, is a lot less than
15 what you're looking at right now. Okay?
16 And you need to tell me exactly what was
17 going on. Okay? If you want to help yourself, okay,
18 you need to come completely clean on this. Okay? If
19 you're going to claim self-defense and that -- you know,
20 that you were protecting yourself, all right, you need
21 to come clean. You can't hold back to protect your
22 brother or your friend or whoever else because you're --
23 you're sitting on a pretty hot seat right now. Okay?
24 A. I understand that.
25 Q. All right. So what is going on that caused
55
1 this guy to show up?
2 A. I'm not --
3 Q. And you better tell me.
4 A. I'm not sure, Officer.
5 Q. All right. Don't tell me you're not sure.
6 He didn't just show up.
7 A. He obviously had a problem with one of the
8 kids that I was with.
9 Q. Okay. What was the problem?
10 A. I don't -- I'm not sure. I don't know what
11 it was.
12 Q. Nobody told you anything? Nobody told
13 you --
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. -- what the problem was?
16 A. No, sir. All's I know is that he was
17 looking for the kid that was with me, Tristan.
18 Q. He was looking for Tristan?
19 A. Yep.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. He had hit -- he had hit Gib in the face.
22 Q. He hit who?
23 A. Gib Bastion (phonetically).
24 Q. Who's Gib?
25 A. In Springfield.
56
1 Q. Gib who?
2 A. Gib. I'm not sure of his last name.
3 Q. When -- when -- he hit Gib where?
4 A. He hit Gib in Springfield.
5 Q. What do you think his last name is?
6 A. I'm not sure. I don't know him all that
7 well.
8 Q. When did that happen?
9 A. Happened yesterday. Cops showed up, I
10 believe.
11 Q. Hit him in the face?
12 A. Yeah. He knocked Gib out, I guess. I
13 don't -- I don't know the whole situation that well.
14 All's I know is I was with him and this kid showed up
15 looking for --
16 Q. You were with who?
17 A. Tristan.
18 Q. Okay. So you were with Tristan. So why
19 does he have a problem with Tristan?
20 A. I'm not sure. You know, I couldn't tell
21 you, Officer. I don't know. All's I know is that he
22 showed up and he was coming after us with an ax. That's
23 it. That's all I know.
24 Q. So if he hits Gib yesterday in Springfield,
25 why is he after Tristan?
57
1 A. I -- I don't even know who this kid is,
2 Officer. No clue who he is.
3 Q. So he shows up, he's after Tristan, and how
4 do you know he's after Tristan?
5 A. I don't -- I don't know he's after Tristan.
6 He was after somebody that was with me obviously because
7 I don't even know who he is.
8 Q. Well, why do you think it's Tristan?
9 A. I don't even know who he is.
10 Q. Okay. Why do you think he's after Tristan?
11 A. Because Tristan had been getting threats
12 from this kid. Tristan --
13 Q. When?
14 A. -- Tristan was getting threatened by him.
15 Q. When?
16 A. Earlier today, yesterday.
17 Q. Okay. So obviously Tristan told you about
18 that or somebody told you about it?
19 A. Yeah, he told me he was being threatened,
20 but he didn't tell me why. He -- all's he said was that
21 he was getting threats from this kid and --
22 Q. When did he tell you that?
23 A. He told me that today.
24 Q. Okay. When?
25 A. Earlier today.
58
1 Q. Earlier today?
2 A. When he -- when this kid showed up, I was
3 like what's going on here, and he told me what was going
4 on.
5 Q. He told you what?
6 A. He told me that he -- I think he's looking
7 for me, I think he's looking for me, and he was standing
8 out there screaming.
9 Q. Who was screaming?
10 A. That --
11 Q. The guy?
12 A. Yeah, the guy.
13 Q. Vinny?
14 A. I'm not sure who he is.
15 Q. You think it's Vinny?
16 A. Yeah. I don't know who he is.
17 Q. What -- what exactly did Tristan -- and you
18 know, I'm trying to help you out here.
19 A. I know. I understand that.
20 Q. Okay? I am.
21 A. I understand that.
22 Q. Believe it or not, I am trying to help you
23 out here, and you can't hold back on me because you know
24 what? Do you think this is the only conversation that's
25 going to happen? Or do you think we're going to talk to
59
1 everybody involved?
2 A. Everybody.
3 Q. Exactly.
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. So if I find out you're holding back on me,
6 who's going to be the one looking bad and who's the one
7 holding the rifle that just shot a guy?
8 A. I know. I'm not --
9 Q. Okay? So don't hold back on me.
10 A. I'm not trying to hold back --
11 Q. I'm trying to help you.
12 A. I'm not trying to hold back on you, Officer.
13 Q. Believe it or not, I am trying to help you.
14 A. It was self-defense, Officer.
15 Q. I'm not saying it wasn't. What I'm saying
16 is you need to tell me everything.
17 A. I could be dead right now.
18 Q. I'm not saying it wasn't self-defense.
19 A. Could be dead right now.
20 Q. But what you need to do is tell me the whole
21 story.
22 A. I don't know the complete story, Officer.
23 Q. Well, tell me what you do know.
24 A. All's I know is that he was looking for --
25 looking for them and I happened to be a part of it and
60
1 he came after me with an ax. That's all I know.
2 Q. Well, what did Tristan -- exactly what did
3 Tristan tell you earlier about the problems he was
4 having with this guy?
5 A. He said that -- he said that he was after
6 him. He said that --
7 Q. For what?
8 A. -- he was a madman, steroid freak, they had
9 problems with him --
10 Q. What problems?
11 A. -- was chasing him.
12 Q. What problems?
13 A. I'm not sure exactly what the problems were.
14 Q. He -- listen, I know how people talk. Okay?
15 People don't just say I'm having a problem with that
16 guy. They say I'm having a problem because X, Y, Z,
17 because this happened. You don't just say hey, I'm
18 having a problem with -- with this guy.
19 A. I don't know what his problem was with him.
20 He ripped him off or something. I don't know what
21 happened exactly.
22 Q. All right. We're starting to get there.
23 A. I don't know -- Officer, I don't know
24 exactly what happened. I'm --
25 Q. But you know something about what happened?
61
1 A. -- I don't hang out with these people
2 normally.
3 Q. You know something about what happened.
4 A. All's I know is I got chased with a ax.
5 Q. I'm not saying you didn't.
6 A. I'm lucky to be alive right now.
7 Q. Okay. I'm not saying you didn't get chased
8 with an ax. What I'm saying is you need to tell me what
9 the story is behind this.
10 A. I'm not sure of the story, Officer. I'm not
11 sure why he was looking for him. I don't know. I got
12 caught in the middle of this as a bad scene.
13 Q. You just told me that Tristan told you that
14 he was having a problem with this guy.
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. What was the problem?
17 A. He came into his house.
18 Q. Who came into his house? Who came into
19 whose house?
20 A. Vinny came -- I think Vinny came into his
21 house.
22 Q. Into Tristan's house?
23 A. I think so.
24 Q. Okay. When?
25 A. I think the other day.
62
1 Q. Okay. Came into his house for what?
2 A. I'm not sure what for. He came -- walked up
3 into his house. I don't know if it was for money or
4 what it was for. I don't know. Not sure. And all's I
5 know is that yesterday -- I think it was yesterday. I
6 don't know. I -- I wasn't a part of it, but this kid
7 Gib, he got hit by this kid Vinny, knocked out, and the
8 cops showed up at the scene, and he was released and
9 everything, but I guess he's like a psychotic person or
10 something.
11 Q. Who was released?
12 A. Vinny.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. After hitting this kid.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. So then Tristan was scared because he
17 thought -- Tristan thought that he was coming after him
18 because he showed up --
19 Q. Because why?
20 A. Huh?
21 Q. Because why? Was he with Gib the other day
22 or what -- what was going on?
23 A. Because he was with Gib, yeah.
24 Q. So he was --
25 A. Apparently this kid didn't like Gib and
63
1 Tristan, so he felt the need to try and chase him down
2 and beat him up or something, so then today Tristan was
3 getting threats from this kid, and this kid slashed some
4 other kid's tires, one of his friend's tires running
5 around.
6 Q. Whose?
7 A. Tristan's friends.
8 Q. Who?
9 A. Ben -- Ben Millay.
10 Q. Ben who?
11 A. Ben Millay.
12 Q. Millay?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Vinny slashed Ben Millay's tires?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. When?
17 A. I think today.
18 Q. Where does Ben live?
19 A. Ben lives in Springfield.
20 Q. How do you spell his last name?
21 A. Millay, M-i-l-l-a-y.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. All's I know is I got caught in the middle
24 of a bad -- a bad scene that I didn't even know I was
25 getting into and at the point where I got chased with an
64
1 ax and I thought that I was in jeopardy. I did what I
2 had to do to not -- to not be there.
3 Q. So if he's after Tristan --
4 A. Right.
5 Q. -- how do you get in the middle of it?
6 A. Because he came running at everybody with
7 the ax that was there.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Whoever was near him, he was coming after.
10 That was it.
11 Q. Okay. But why does he start focusing on
12 you?
13 A. That's -- your question is good as mine. I
14 have no idea. All's I know is I was scared and I wanted
15 to get in my truck.
16 Q. Where did Tristan go?
17 A. Tristan was -- there was a whole crowd full
18 of people. Everybody was -- everybody was --
19 Q. Where'd he go? When -- when you're dealing
20 with this guy who's after Tristan, where did Tristan go?
21 A. They were -- everybody was running away from
22 him because he had a ax.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. So I was just trying to get away from him
25 too. I was just trying to do my best to get away from
65
1 this kid --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- with the ax.
4 Q. So why didn't you run away?
5 A. Why didn't I run?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. I tried to get in my truck, to get in my
8 truck where my dog was and everything, and he started
9 smashing my truck.
10 Q. Why -- why did you go for your truck? Why
11 not just run away like everybody else?
12 A. Because that's where -- I was closest to my
13 truck.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. I wanted to get inside my truck because he
16 was coming after us. I ran to my truck, and I wanted to
17 get into my truck to try to be inside of somewhere so he
18 wouldn't hit me with the ax.
19 Q. So were you there yesterday when this Gib
20 guy gets hit?
21 A. No. I wasn't a part of any of that. I
22 don't know nothing about any of that.
23 Q. Was Tristan there?
24 A. I think -- Tristan spoke with the police, I
25 believe.
66
1 Q. Yesterday?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So he was there?
4 A. Yes. I believe.
5 Q. Have you had any dealings with Vinny before?
6 A. No. I never met him before in my life.
7 Q. You've never met Vinny?
8 A. Never in my life. Never.
9 Q. Is there any discussion between you and
10 Tristan or your brother or anybody else about if Vinny's
11 going to show up after one of you guys today?
12 A. No, sir, not at all.
13 Q. In other words, were you guys expecting him
14 to show up somewhere?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. No?
17 A. No, sir. Wasn't expecting nothing. I got
18 caught in the middle of a bad -- a bad scene and I was
19 scared.
20 Q. So again what -- what is the problem between
21 Tristan and Vinny?
22 A. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what their
23 problem is.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. I don't know what their problem is, but
67
1 obviously he has a problem with Tristan and anybody else
2 that's around him.
3 Q. Now, I don't know if you're -- you're trying
4 to protect Tristan because he's involved in drugs --
5 A. I'm not trying to protect --
6 Q. -- because there was some kind of rip-off
7 that happened last night or --
8 A. I'm not trying to protect Tristan
9 whatsoever.
10 Q. -- some kind of rip-off, maybe he ripped off
11 Vinny or what happened, okay, but what I'm telling you
12 and I don't think you're getting, okay, is you're in a
13 whole lot more trouble or potential trouble than any
14 drug rip-off or whatever else is going on. Okay? And
15 if you're trying to protect Tristan, you're being stupid
16 because you're the one in the hottest seat in the state
17 right now. Okay?
18 I'm trying to help you out. I'm trying
19 to -- I'm trying to get it through your head, okay, that
20 the time to start protecting people is over. The time
21 to tell me the whole truth is now. That's what I'm
22 trying to get --
23 A. I was protecting myself, Officer.
24 Q. That's what I'm trying to get through to
25 you. I don't think you're quite getting it.
68
1 A. I was protecting myself, Officer.
2 Q. Why is Vinny there after Tristan?
3 A. I'm not sure. I -- I don't know -- he's
4 from Boston or something.
5 Q. I don't care if he's from Boston. He's
6 there for some reason after Tristan. I don't care if
7 he's from the moon.
8 A. I'm not sure why.
9 Q. Why is he there after Tristan?
10 A. I don't know why. I don't know why he was
11 after Tristan. I don't have any clue why he's after
12 Tristan.
13 Q. Well, yes, you do have a clue because you
14 just told me that there was a problem yesterday and that
15 Tristan told you that there was a problem --
16 A. Yeah, there was a problem with --
17 Q. -- and that Vinny slashed this Ben Millay's
18 tires, so obviously there's stuff going on --
19 A. I'm not sure what's go --
20 Q. -- so don't tell me you don't have any clue.
21 A. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with it.
22 Q. And you just told me that Vinny ended up
23 inside Tristan's house.
24 A. He did. He walked in there.
25 Q. Okay. And when did that happen?
69
1 A. I think two days ago.
2 Q. Okay. Where does Tristan live?
3 A. In Chester.
4 Q. Where?
5 A. Main Street.
6 Q. Where on Main Street?
7 A. I'm not sure where. He lives --
8 Q. Isn't he like a good friend of yours?
9 A. -- right by the green. Right by the green.
10 Q. Which house?
11 A. Right by the green, there's a apartment
12 building right there, across from the green.
13 Q. Apartment building across from the green?
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. Which apartment?
16 A. I'm not sure what the number is.
17 Q. Tell me how to get to it. Do I go in --
18 which door, the apartment building?
19 A. You go towards the green and take a left
20 before the green.
21 Q. Yeah.
22 A. And take your next left into the parking
23 lot, and there's a door on the porch, goes up a set of
24 stairs.
25 Q. Do you go up the stairs?
70
1 A. There's two doors and you go up a set of
2 stairs, yeah.
3 Q. Are the stairs inside or outside?
4 A. Inside.
5 Q. So you go inside?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. You go upstairs?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. And then where did you go after you go up
10 the stairs?
11 A. You're there.
12 Q. How many apartments are upstairs?
13 A. Just one.
14 Q. Just one?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. So there's one upstairs apartment?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Where is Tristan now?
19 A. I have no idea.
20 Q. Was he there when the police got there?
21 A. I believe so. He had to have been.
22 Q. I mean, did he leave or -- before the police
23 got there or was he still there?
24 A. Must have left.
25 Q. I'm asking you.
71
1 A. Every -- every -- everybody scattered. He
2 pro -- he had to have been still there or he ran.
3 Q. I don't know. I'm asking you. Did he leave
4 or did he stay?
5 A. He must have ran.
6 Q. Why?
7 A. I don't know. I was just protecting myself,
8 Officer.
9 Q. How about Corey? Where is Corey?
10 A. I'm not sure where he is. I been here for
11 five hours.
12 Q. How about Jerry? Did he stay at the scene
13 to talk to the police?
14 A. Yeah, Jerry did.
15 Q. Okay. Why didn't Tristan stay at the scene?
16 A. I'm not sure. I wasn't there when --
17 Q. Well, you were there until the police got
18 there.
19 A. I know, but they told me just to get on the
20 ground. I don't know what happened to the rest of them
21 there.
22 Q. Okay. But what happened before the police
23 got there? Did Tristan stay or did he leave?
24 A. I'm not sure what happened to him.
25 Q. Because there's like a five-minute period,
72
1 you're telling me, before the police got there.
2 A. There was.
3 Q. Okay. So what was Tristan doing? He's the
4 guy that this guy was actually after. What's he doing?
5 He's your friend.
6 A. Yeah. There was a whole -- yeah, there was
7 a whole crowd full of people and everybody just
8 scattered. They were all back -- running away from this
9 kid with the ax.
10 Q. Okay. So you're standing there. Was
11 anybody with you at this point?
12 A. No. I was getting chased before everything
13 happened.
14 Q. No, no, no, after -- after you shoot Vinny
15 and Vinny goes down --
16 A. Right.
17 Q. -- who's -- who's with you at that point?
18 A. Nobody was with me.
19 Q. Okay. Did anybody come over, see how you're
20 doing?
21 A. Everybody just scattered.
22 Q. Everybody just scattered.
23 A. Everyone was gone.
24 Q. Nobody came over to say like you okay or
25 anything like that?
73
1 A. There was a -- there was a couple people
2 there, but it all happened so quickly and the --
3 Q. Well, your buddy Tristan is the guy who
4 got -- the one the guy's after --
5 A. I know.
6 Q. -- so he doesn't come over to you and say
7 like thanks for stepping up and taking care of me?
8 A. No, he didn't.
9 Q. Well, where'd he go?
10 A. I have no idea. Because he was after me. I
11 don't know why he was after me at that time, but he was
12 originally after Tristan, but then he came running at
13 us, and I happened to be at the back of the pack, and I
14 tried to get in my truck and he went after me because I
15 was closest to him at that point. I never met this kid
16 before in my life, ever before in my life. I don't even
17 know who he is. He came at me with an ax. That's all I
18 know, Officer.
19 Q. No, no, no, you know a lot more than that.
20 A. I don't.
21 Q. Yes, you do. Why did Tristan take off?
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. Did Tristan report to the police that Vinny
24 came into his house?
25 A. I believe he did --
74
1 Q. You think he did?
2 A. -- yesterday when he talked to them, yeah.
3 Q. When did he report it to the police?
4 A. Yesterday afternoon.
5 Q. Did Vinny break his way in or just come in
6 or what?
7 A. I'm pretty sure he just walked in. I
8 don't -- I don't know the exact details. I wasn't
9 there. I'm trying to help you out, man. I don't --
10 Q. No, I'm trying to help you --
11 A. I know.
12 Q. -- but you're not helping yourself. That's
13 the problem. You're still trying to protect your
14 friends, okay, even though you're the one that's going
15 to be the one in trouble.
16 A. Self-defense, Officer. He was trying to hit
17 me with an ax.
18 Q. People aren't going to buy self-defense
19 unless you tell me the whole story.
20 A. I don't know the whole story.
21 Q. Okay. Do you understand that?
22 A. I got caught --
23 Q. Do you understand that if you're going to --
24 if you're going to say self-defense, okay -- and I'm not
25 saying it wasn't. Maybe it was. Okay? I'm just trying
75
1 to get --
2 A. He was trying to hit me with an ax.
3 Q. I'm not saying it wasn't self-defense. I'm
4 just trying to get the whole story from you. Okay? But
5 if you're going to say that it's self-defense, then you
6 need to tell me the whole story. Because if you don't
7 and you hold back and you lie or you just leave stuff
8 out, then when it comes out later, which it will, I
9 guarantee you it will, then people aren't going to
10 believe you anymore because they're going to say well,
11 he was saying it's self-defense, but how come he didn't
12 tell us all this other stuff.
13 A. I'm telling you what I know. It's only what
14 I know. I got attacked with a hatchet.
15 Q. You know what? You don't go to a softball
16 field and somebody out of the blue attacks you with a
17 hatchet.
18 A. That's what happened though.
19 Q. Okay? But there was a reason he showed up.
20 He didn't just show up out of the blue. He showed up
21 for a reason.
22 A. Because this kid Tristan -- apparently he
23 was looking for Tristan. And he punched Gib
24 yesterday --
25 Q. Okay.
76
1 A. -- and we were there, so he showed up, and
2 when we were trying to figure out what was going on, he
3 came running at us with a -- a pickax trying to hit me
4 with it, and anybody else in his way he was going to
5 hit.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. Anybody there.
8 Q. All right.
9 A. Didn't matter who it was. He was coming
10 after anybody.
11 Q. I'm not saying you're -- that's not true.
12 A. It's fucked up (inaudible).
13 Q. I'm not saying that's not true. I'm just
14 trying to -- you don't understand that I'm trying to
15 help you.
16 A. I do. I want to help you in any way I can,
17 but I don't -- I only know so much of what happened.
18 That's it. I don't know anything else that happened. I
19 know that I was going to get hit with a ax and I was
20 scared for my life, and I'm lucky to be sitting right
21 here right now. I could have got hit in the head with a
22 ax. I could be dead. He was willing to hit anybody.
23 Q. Um hum.
24 A. My brother was right there, my friends.
25 Q. So describe exactly for me, exactly where
77
1 that rifle was in your truck.
2 A. It was in the back seat.
3 Q. Um hum.
4 A. Under the seat.
5 Q. Was it in any kind of case or anything?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. And --
8 A. I normally have a gun rack that I keep it
9 on.
10 Q. And how many magazines or clips do you have
11 for it?
12 A. Just one. Just one for hunting.
13 Q. For the gun under the back seat?
14 A. Yep.
15 Q. One clip in the -- in where?
16 A. I had it in the glove box. I always keep a
17 clip.
18 Q. Now, it's pretty early to be scoping for
19 deer.
20 A. No, I scout year-round.
21 Q. Scout year-round?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Big deer hunter?
24 A. Big deer hunter.
25 Q. Yeah. You a bow hunter, too, or --
78
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Why are you carrying a rifle if you're just
3 scouting?
4 A. Because when I go through woods, I like to
5 have a rifle with me because I hunt coyotes. Coyotes
6 are open year-round. Shoot coyotes, shoot any time of
7 the year.
8 Q. Do you have a hunting license?
9 A. I do.
10 Q. Does the rifle have a scope on it?
11 A. No.
12 Q. What kind of sights?
13 A. There's a open sight.
14 Q. Open sights?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What kind? You know, are they like V -- you
17 know, a V sight, peep sight? What is it?
18 A. Just a regular V sight.
19 Q. V sight?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. The first time you shoot, when he's coming
22 around the back of the truck and you say you shot --
23 hit -- shot him in the leg --
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. -- how do you shoot the gun? Like how do
79
1 you position the gun to shoot it?
2 A. I guess I don't understand the question.
3 Q. Like where was the gun? Did you shoulder
4 it, did you shoot from the hip, did you -- I mean,
5 there's all different ways you could have held it when
6 you -- when you fired.
7 A. I shouldered it.
8 Q. Shouldered it?
9 A. Yeah. Because he was coming --
10 Q. Are you right- or left-handed?
11 A. Right-handed.
12 Q. You're right-handed? So did you shoulder
13 it, you know, traditionally right up to your shoulder?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. Did you use a sight stain?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. And were you -- what was your body
18 positioning? Were you standing, kneeling, sitting?
19 What were you --
20 A. Standing.
21 Q. Yeah.
22 A. I was trying to get away from him.
23 Q. Okay. So you were standing?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you said you used the sights?
80
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you aimed for what?
3 A. His leg.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Try to stop him from getting towards me.
6 Q. And you said it was the right leg?
7 A. Right leg, yeah.
8 Q. Okay. So after you shoot him in the leg,
9 he's still able to advance on you?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Could you see if he was bleeding?
12 A. I couldn't. I was scared shitless. I was
13 scared out of my mind. He was coming at me with an ax.
14 All's I wanted to do was not get hit in the head with an
15 ax. That's it. That's it.
16 Q. Now, you know there's a lot of witnesses
17 there?
18 A. Yeah, there is.
19 Q. And you also know that we'll send -- we'll
20 check and see -- you know, we'll look at his wounds and
21 we'll be able to tell where the bullet went in and came
22 out and all that kind of stuff?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Right?
25 A. Yep.
81
1 Q. So we'll be able to tell exactly where he
2 was hit?
3 A. Yep.
4 Q. And, you know, where the bullet entered and
5 where the bullet exited and all that stuff?
6 A. I'm telling you everything I know.
7 Q. Are we going to find out that he has a
8 bullet hole in his back?
9 A. Shouldn't.
10 Q. Shouldn't?
11 A. Shouldn't, no. He was coming at me.
12 Q. Did anyone else there have a gun?
13 A. No, no one else had a gun. Nobody.
14 Q. Nobody else there had a gun?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did anybody else there have any other kind
17 of weapon?
18 A. No. Not that I know of.
19 Q. Did Tristan have a weapon?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did Corey?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did Jerry?
24 A. No. Nobody else.
25 Q. No other rifles around?
82
1 A. No, I had -- I had a .22 in my truck as
2 well.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. I keep that with me as well.
5 Q. Where -- where was that?
6 A. That was in the back seat as well.
7 Q. Where in the back seat?
8 A. Right at the seat.
9 Q. Under the seat?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. What kind of .22 is that?
12 A. It's a Marlin, I believe.
13 Q. Marlin? What kind of action?
14 A. It's a semi-automatic.
15 Q. Semi-automatic?
16 A. Use it for squirrel hunting, target
17 practicing.
18 Q. How many rounds does that hold?
19 A. Like 22.
20 Q. Was it loaded?
21 A. I don't think it was.
22 Q. You don't think it was?
23 A. I don't think so.
24 Q. Where in the back was it?
25 A. It was underneath the seat.
83
1 Q. Okay. So must have been next to the 30-06?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. Do you have .22 cartridges in the truck?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Where?
6 A. It was in the back seat as well.
7 Q. Where in the back seat?
8 A. Back seat, underneath the seat.
9 Q. Under the seat?
10 A. Yeah. I believe.
11 Q. What is it -- what -- what do you have back
12 there? Is it a magazine, is it just a box of .22's?
13 What is it?
14 A. It was -- there was some loose shells back
15 there.
16 Q. How many?
17 A. I'm not sure. Maybe ten.
18 Q. How many?
19 A. Maybe ten.
20 Q. Maybe ten?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. What kind of magazine does that have, the
23 .22? In other words, how do you load it?
24 A. It's got a tubular magazine.
25 Q. Okay. Is it one of the ones where you -- a
84
1 little hole and you drop the shell -- the cartridge in
2 and it drops down?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. And you push -- push the spring down to --
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. -- and you turn it to put the pressure on
7 it, one of those?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Where is that rifle now?
10 A. Should be in my truck.
11 Q. Where in the truck?
12 A. What's that?
13 Q. Where?
14 A. Should be underneath the seat of my truck.
15 Q. Still under the seat?
16 A. Should be.
17 Q. You sure?
18 A. I'm not positive where it is.
19 Q. How come?
20 A. Everything -- everything got stirred up.
21 Windows were getting smashed out and everything.
22 Q. Do -- because I'm hearing some stuff like
23 maybe somebody had that -- that -- that rifle.
24 A. Somebody had that rifle?
25 Q. I'm hearing maybe. Do you remember anybody
85
1 having that rifle?
2 A. I -- I don't believe anybody did. I had it.
3 Q. So if that's true, that should -- that rifle
4 should still be right where you said it was?
5 A. I'm not sure. I got a lot of stuff in my
6 back seat, Officer. Lot of stuff in my back seat.
7 Q. Okay. Well, where else would it be?
8 A. Should be in my back seat.
9 Q. Okay. I'm saying -- okay. So if it's -- if
10 nobody grabbed it, it should still be there?
11 A. Yeah. Should be in my back seat.
12 Q. Is it loaded at all?
13 A. I don't believe it was.
14 Q. And where are the loose cartridges back
15 there?
16 A. Should be in the back seat.
17 Q. Are they like in one spot?
18 A. I'm not sure where they are exactly.
19 Q. You're not sure?
20 A. Should be in the back seat.
21 Q. But are they like just randomly spread over
22 there or what are they?
23 A. They would be just in the back seat
24 somewhere. I'm not sure.
25 Q. Well, what do you mean somewhere? Where?
86
1 A. I got a lot of stuff in the back seat.
2 Q. Where? I mean, like -- they just like --
3 just thrown in the back seat, like somebody like --
4 like --
5 A. Probably on the -- on the -- be on the
6 floor.
7 Q. -- thrown around there or where are they?
8 A. On the floor probably.
9 Q. Okay. Are they like together?
10 A. Maybe. I'm not sure where they are.
11 Q. You don't know? I mean, are they in like a
12 container?
13 A. No, they're not in a container.
14 Q. They're not in a container? They're just
15 loose?
16 A. They're loose.
17 Q. Okay. Did anybody have that rifle?
18 A. Nobody had that rifle. Not that I know of.
19 It was under -- underneath the back seat, sitting there
20 in the back seat. Got a lot of stuff in my truck
21 (inaudible).
22 Q. What else is there?
23 A. Just some clothes.
24 Q. Okay. What else?
25 A. There's a bunch of stuff in there. I keep a
87
1 lot of stuff in my truck.
2 Q. Any other guns?
3 A. No other guns (inaudible).
4 Q. Just the two rifles?
5 A. Yes. (Inaudible).
6 Q. Any other kind of weapons?
7 A. There may have been a Leatherman knife in
8 there. That's about it. I use it for work. And maybe
9 a hunting knife. That's about it.
10 Q. Okay. Are those in the back seat too?
11 A. I don't -- I think they're in the doors in
12 the front seat of the truck.
13 Q. Okay. So where did you put the rifle again
14 when you were done, after you shot him the second time?
15 A. I'm not sure exactly where it ended up,
16 Officer. I think it ended up in the truck somewhere.
17 Q. In the truck somewhere? Did you put it
18 there?
19 A. I believe so.
20 Q. Did anybody else handle that rifle?
21 A. I don't believe so.
22 Q. You don't believe so?
23 A. No.
24 Q. What I'll tell you is everything you tell me
25 will be checked and double checked and triple checked,
88
1 and it'll be corroborated by -- you know, we have the
2 scene frozen up there. Okay? We'll be -- we'll be
3 searching your truck, we'll get the warrants for that,
4 we'll be searching his car, we'll be searching that
5 whole area. Okay?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. So everything you say to me should be
8 corro -- if you're telling me the truth --
9 A. I'm tell -- I'm trying --
10 Q. -- should -- should be corroborated or
11 matched up with what's up there.
12 A. I'm trying to be -- I'm trying to be as
13 honest with you as I -- I know, everything I know.
14 Everything I know, as I know it, is as honest as I --
15 it's all I know. Everything that I'm trying to tell you
16 is how it happened. Self-defense. He was coming at me.
17 I was scared for my life. I didn't want to die. He
18 came -- was coming at me with an ax telling me he was
19 going to hit me with it.
20 Q. Um hum.
21 A. Smashed my truck up. I don't even know the
22 kid. All's I know is he's twice my size and he was
23 coming at me with an ax.
24 Q. What if I tell you that I'm hearing from
25 some -- some of the witnesses up -- or some of the
89
1 people up there that after he was shot in the leg, okay,
2 he was limping around and you actually were going after
3 him at that point?
4 A. No, he was coming after me. He was trying
5 to hit me with the ax.
6 Q. Is it possible that in the heat of the
7 battle there -- and this would be completely
8 understandable, by the way, because, you know, once
9 you -- you know, it's -- I don't know how many -- I
10 don't know if you're a fighter or not or whatever. Are
11 you a guy that gets in a lot of fistfights or --
12 A. Am I?
13 Q. Yeah.
14 A. No.
15 Q. Have you ever been in a fistfight or --
16 never?
17 A. Never.
18 Q. Okay. Once you --
19 A. I mean, I been in -- I mean, I have been in
20 some fights before but --
21 Q. Okay. That's what I just asked you.
22 A. I mean --
23 Q. So you've been in a fistfight before?
24 A. I'm not -- yeah, I'm not --
25 Q. All right.
90
1 A. I don't try to go out looking for fights is
2 what I'm saying.
3 Q. I didn't -- you know what? I didn't -- I
4 didn't ask you that. I said have you ever been in a
5 fight before.
6 A. Yeah, I been -- I been in fights before.
7 Q. Okay. So then you know that once things go
8 from not fighting to fighting, things get kind of
9 crazy --
10 A. Right.
11 Q. -- and the adrenaline gets pumped up, and
12 once you hit that switch kind of, you know, you kind of
13 go from not fighting, and once you hit the fighting
14 switch, you know, it's real easy to -- I mean, you kind
15 of go into that mode until it's over.
16 A. It was self-defense.
17 Q. Okay?
18 A. That's all I was trying to do is defend
19 myself.
20 Q. Just -- just listen to me. Listen to me.
21 So you know that. Do -- do you understand what I'm
22 saying? Since you -- if you've been in a fight, you
23 should know -- you should understand what I'm saying,
24 that once you kind of go from not fighting to the -- to
25 the fight and you get into the heat of battle, you kind
91
1 of turn that switch and you kind of -- you kind of
2 battle until the battle's over. Do you under -- do you
3 follow what I'm saying?
4 A. Kind of.
5 Q. So I'm just wondering if -- and like I said,
6 this is understandable, but you need to tell me this.
7 Okay?
8 A. Yeah, he was coming after me.
9 Q. Okay. But after you --
10 A. (Inaudible).
11 Q. -- after he's coming after you and smashing
12 your truck and smashing everything up and being a
13 complete asshole quite frankly, right?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. And he's clearly the aggressor at this
16 point?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. He's the one that showed up?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. He's the one that pulled out an ax --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. -- and a Taser?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. But is it possible that you --
25 getting into that adrenaline, you know, you shot him in
92
1 the leg, but then you followed up coming after him
2 because, you know, you turned that switch and you -- you
3 wanted to make sure that you were -- that you were okay?
4 A. I was -- I was self-defense. I was trying
5 to defend myself from being injured by him with an ax,
6 Officer. Scared for my life, scared for everybody that
7 was there.
8 Q. That's -- that's not what I asked you.
9 A. That's what I'm saying is I was still in
10 fear that he was coming at me with an ax.
11 Q. I know you were. I know you were. I agree.
12 A. I was scared.
13 Q. I agree. I'm sure you were afraid of your
14 life through this entire -- through -- from the
15 beginning of this incident when he came out with the ax
16 until the end when he was on the ground. I have no
17 doubt that you were afraid and concerned for your safety
18 through this whole period of time.
19 A. And everybody else that was there because
20 see, it wasn't just me that he was going to hurt, it was
21 everybody that was there that was in his way, and I
22 happened to be right there because I was at my truck,
23 trying to get into my truck and he caught up with me --
24 Q. Yeah.
25 A. -- trying to get in my truck.
93
1 Q. And then he's smashing your truck?
2 A. Smashing my truck.
3 Q. Yep.
4 A. Smashed the windows, smashed the door.
5 Q. And he's coming after you?
6 A. Coming after me --
7 Q. Yeah.
8 A. -- chasing me.
9 Q. Yeah.
10 A. Threatening me.
11 Q. And so then it's -- it's logical and -- and
12 this is how these things happen is that, okay, now
13 you're -- you're going to get -- I mean, it's -- it's
14 only natural you're -- you're going to get -- you're
15 going to get a mixture of anger, fear, you know, a huge
16 adrenaline rush. Okay? I mean, that's -- there's no
17 way around it. Okay? That's what's going to happen.
18 Okay?
19 Anybody -- anybody in that situation is
20 going to have that -- all those feelings. You're going
21 to get mad, you're going to get scared, you're going
22 to -- you're going to have -- your adrenaline's going to
23 be going through the roof, you know.
24 A. Scared.
25 Q. They call it -- they call it fight or
94
1 flight. You know what I mean? You get -- you get --
2 you get extra strong, you -- you can run faster, you
3 can -- you can do things that you can't do normally.
4 Okay?
5 A. I was scared for my life.
6 Q. Okay. Kyle, just -- so what would be --
7 what would be understandable is that you shoot him, but
8 you're still angry, you're still -- you're still scared
9 because you still don't know if he's going to come after
10 you --
11 A. He's --
12 Q. -- so even though he's -- at this point
13 maybe he's turned and going away or whatever, you -- you
14 take that second shot because you -- you aren't sure
15 what's going to happen.
16 A. He was threatening me with a ax.
17 Q. I know he was. Okay? I -- I hear you. But
18 what's -- what I'm trying to get across to you -- I
19 think you think I'm trying to trick you and I'm not,
20 okay, and -- but what's really important is you -- you
21 got to tell me everything the way it happened. Okay?
22 A. I tried to do the best I could.
23 Q. I know. But it's going to co -- it has to
24 come out. Okay? It's going to come out. And if it was
25 that he had turned and started moving away from you but
95
1 you were still jacked up in that adrenaline dump and at
2 that point you've -- like I said, you've hit --
3 you've -- you're turned the switch, you're into the
4 fight mode now because you're fighting for your life.
5 A. He was suckering my truck trying to get at
6 me.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. That's all he was doing was trying to get at
9 me and anybody else that was around him. That's it.
10 All's I tried to do was stop him. He kept coming, kept
11 coming.
12 Q. But are the other people going to tell me
13 that?
14 A. The people that were right there should tell
15 you that. He was running around with a ax, man.
16 Q. Well, there's a -- there's a lot of people
17 that were right there, so there's going to be a lot of
18 people for us to talk to.
19 A. Yeah, he was -- he was running --
20 Q. I mean, this is -- this is something that
21 was really witnessed by quite a few people.
22 A. He was running around with a ax.
23 Q. I know he was.
24 A. Like a madman. He's a psychotic person. I
25 don't know -- understand what he was thinking. He was
96
1 trying to hurt people with the ax. He was trying to
2 hurt me especially. He was busting my stuff, busting my
3 windows. My dog was inside. My brother was right
4 there. He's coming at me with an ax, threatening me. I
5 didn't know what to do and I was scared for my life.
6 Q. But --
7 A. Self-defense at that point.
8 Q. But what I need to know is when you're
9 defending yourself, did he at some point turn and start
10 moving away from you because he was wounded, and did you
11 still -- because you were still in that fight mode, did
12 you still follow up and shoot him again?
13 A. He was chasing me around the truck with the
14 ax. He wasn't -- he wasn't backing down.
15 Q. Because what I'm trying to do is before --
16 you know, we got a whole bunch of detectives out there
17 and they're talking to everybody that's out there right
18 now -- right now. Okay?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. And I got a little bit of information before
21 I came in here.
22 A. Yeah. (Inaudible).
23 Q. Okay. I don't have the whole story yet.
24 A. I know. I'm telling you what --
25 Q. But what I'm -- what I'm trying to do is
97
1 give you a chance right now to tell me the whole story.
2 A. I am. I'm telling you everything that
3 happened out -- it's what I remember.
4 Q. Because -- and let me tell you something
5 that's dead serious. Okay? If -- if you're changing
6 the events at all here, okay, at all, if we find out
7 that this isn't how it happened, your self-defense is
8 done. You are done.
9 A. How -- how am I going to be a victim here?
10 I mean, he was chasing me. How am I going to be -- I'm
11 a victim here, you know?
12 Q. Do you -- Kyle, do you understand what I
13 just told you?
14 A. I'm telling you how it happened, man. He
15 was coming at me with a ax.
16 Q. Okay. But if I find out that -- somehow
17 that your version of events you -- you've changed things
18 a little bit to make yourself seem -- to look better, if
19 I find that out -- see, I'm giving -- I'm giving you the
20 up-front chance, okay, to tell me exactly what happened.
21 Okay?
22 A. I told you what happened, man.
23 Q. I'm -- I'm trying to give you every chance I
24 can.
25 A. (Inaudible).
98
1 Q. I really am. I'm trying to give you every
2 chance. I'm trying to give you every chance to help
3 yourself because to -- to get it out now is the best way
4 to help yourself. Okay? I -- I've investigated enough
5 of these cases. Okay?
6 A. I know. I'm telling you what happened, man.
7 Q. If --
8 A. He was coming at me.
9 Q. -- if I find out -- from the witnesses, from
10 the scene work that we're going to do, if I find out
11 that the -- the events are a little bit different, then
12 nobody's ever going to believe you anymore.
13 A. You don't -- you're trying to say you don't
14 believe me --
15 Q. No, that's not what I'm saying.
16 A. -- there's no witnesses that will say what
17 happened.
18 Q. Kyle, listen to me. That's not what I'm
19 saying. That is not at all what I'm saying. What I'm
20 saying is I think you're scared.
21 A. I'm scared because he was coming at me and
22 I'm just still trying to recover from this.
23 Q. Yeah. And I think you're too -- also scared
24 because of what happened out there. I mean, anybody
25 would be scared.
99
1 A. I just wanted not to die. I was trying to
2 stay alive. I wanted my brother to stay alive and I
3 wanted everybody that was -- he was chasing me with a
4 ax. He was coming after me.
5 Q. Okay. But what I'm a little bit concerned
6 about from what little bit I've got -- information I
7 have now before I came in here, what I'm a little bit
8 concerned about is that it didn't go down exactly what
9 you told me.
10 A. What do you -- what do you think it went
11 down as?
12 Q. Well --
13 A. That's -- I'm telling you exactly how it
14 happened, man.
15 Q. I need -- it doesn't matter how I think it
16 went down. It only matters how it actually did go down.
17 A. I know. I'm telling you exactly how it
18 happened over there is what I'm saying, Officer. I told
19 you exactly how it happened.
20 Q. What's wrong with your leg?
21 A. Cramping -- cramping up.
22 Q. Did you get injured at all in this?
23 A. No. I been sitting down for too long. I'm
24 telling you exactly how it happened, Officer.
25 Q. Did you get injured at all --
100
1 A. No.
2 Q. -- during this altercation?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did he ever lay a hand on you or get a hold
5 of you or anything?
6 A. No, never got a hold of me.
7 Q. Did you get any injuries at all?
8 A. No, none.
9 Q. What's --
10 A. So --
11 Q. -- what's concerning me is what I told you,
12 is that I'm getting a little information that you hit
13 him in the leg, but then at that point, he wasn't coming
14 after you anymore.
15 A. He was still coming after me. He was
16 running -- running around my truck. He was right there
17 with me. He was running around my truck trying to come
18 after me with his ax still at that point. There was no
19 way he was letting down. He was not taking no for an
20 answer. He was trying to hurt somebody and he was
21 trying to hurt me.
22 Q. Well, taking a 06 in the leg is going to
23 slow you down.
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. I don't care who you are.
101
1 A. Yeah. He was still trying to hurt me.
2 Still. Running around the vehicle, is trying to
3 (inaudible).
4 Q. Matter of fact, most people get hit -- hit
5 with a 30-06 in the leg aren't going to be walking
6 anymore.
7 A. No. He wa -- he was still walking. He was
8 running around, coming after me still.
9 Q. Because that's -- that's not like taking a
10 pistol round. That's a pretty significant round as you
11 know.
12 A. Yeah. Yeah. He was coming after me.
13 Q. And you get hit with that in the leg and
14 that's -- that's not -- that's not something you're just
15 going to be walking around with.
16 A. He was still running around. Now, if he was
17 jacked up on something or something, but he was still
18 coming after me.
19 Q. And you're positive you only fired twice?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Positive?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So we're not going to find more shell
24 casings or anything like that. We're going to find two.
25 A. No. It was twice.
102
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. Twice.
3 Q. There's two things that are concerning me.
4 What I'm hearing about what happened, that you're not
5 telling me exactly the version of events. Okay? That
6 and I think you know more about why Vinny's up there and
7 he's mad. I think you're trying to protect your
8 friends.
9 A. I'm not trying to protect my friends, man.
10 I -- I'm not -- I don't know any more about what
11 happened. All's I know is that he showed up looking for
12 them. That's it. And I happened to be there with them,
13 and I got in the middle of it, and he came after me with
14 an ax threatening me, trying to hurt me with an ax. I
15 did what I had to do to not get hit with an ax.
16 Q. But why is it -- why is it you that gets in
17 the middle of it?
18 A. Because I was the last person that ran back.
19 When we were out there, we were standing out there in a
20 group of people and he started running at us with an ax.
21 We -- everybody took off, and I ran back to my truck,
22 and he caught up to my truck and came at me because I
23 was the last person there. I've never even spoken to
24 this kid before in my life. I don't even know who he
25 is. No idea.
103
1 Q. Or is -- is the reason that it's you that
2 gets in the middle of it is because you're the one that
3 has the gun?
4 A. No. He had -- he had no recollection that I
5 even had a gun in my truck (inaudible).
6 Q. No, no, but you know that you have a gun.
7 So in other -- in other words, instead of running,
8 getting out of there, you know you got a gun in the
9 truck.
10 A. I was getting into my truck to get away from
11 him because he was after me, after us, after everybody,
12 but I thought the safe place would be inside my truck.
13 Q. You don't think you could outrun him?
14 A. He was catching up to me. I fell on the
15 ground trying to get in my truck.
16 Q. Right, get in your truck --
17 A. And he started swinging --
18 Q. -- but what if you just -- what if you just
19 run?
20 A. I don't know. Who would have known what
21 would have happened.
22 Q. I don't know.
23 A. Because I fell when I got to my truck --
24 Q. Right, but that's --
25 A. -- so he was right there.
104
1 Q. -- because you went to your truck. What if
2 you had just run with the other ones?
3 A. I don't know what would have happened. I
4 ran to the closest spot there was protection, Officer.
5 Q. I mean, if you went to your truck to get
6 your gun, then just tell me that.
7 A. I went to my truck for protection, to get
8 inside my truck away from him with the ax, and when I
9 got there, I fell down, he started smashing my windows
10 swinging at me, swinging at --
11 Q. So at what point do you think I should get
12 my gun?
13 A. Well, I ran around to the back of my truck.
14 When I got into my truck, when he came around the
15 corner, when he was right -- almost, you know, coming
16 around the back of my truck, I knew that I had to do
17 something. I knew that I had to do something, otherwise
18 I was going to get hurt.
19 Q. Okay. But at what point did your brain say
20 I have a gun and I'm going to get it?
21 A. When he told me he was coming at me,
22 threatening me --
23 Q. When was that?
24 A. -- telling me he was going to hit me with
25 the ax.
105
1 Q. When was that?
2 A. When he was hitting the side of my truck,
3 smashing the side of my truck, coming around the back
4 side. That's when he -- that's when it clicked in my
5 mind that I had -- that he -- he's coming at me. He was
6 coming after me. For some reason, he wanted to come
7 after me, anybody else that was in his way, my brother,
8 anybody.
9 Q. But if he's got a problem with Tristan, why
10 is he coming after you?
11 A. I don't know, man. I have no idea.
12 Q. I think you do.
13 A. I have no idea --
14 Q. I think you do.
15 A. -- why he was coming after me. He doesn't
16 even know me. He doesn't know who I am. I don't even
17 know who he is. I was there and I got caught in the
18 middle of a bad situation.
19 Q. You did.
20 A. That's all there is to it.
21 Q. You did get in the middle of a bad
22 situation, and now you need to tell me why. Because if
23 you don't tell me why -- you know --
24 A. I don't know --
25 Q. -- I can't seem to get through to you.
106
1 A. I know. I don't know why.
2 Q. I can't seem to get through to you that to
3 help yourself out, you need to tell me everything.
4 A. I am telling you everything that happened,
5 Officer.
6 Q. If he's so mad at Tristan, why does he --
7 why does he even bother with you?
8 A. Because he -- I think he's psychotic or
9 something.
10 Q. Did -- what did you say --
11 A. He was coming at anybody. Anybody.
12 Q. -- what did you say to him?
13 A. I didn't say a word to him. I didn't --
14 Q. You didn't say a word to him?
15 A. Nothing to him.
16 Q. So why is he then going after you?
17 A. Because we were in the crowd, and he ran at
18 us, ran at everybody, everybody that was standing there.
19 He was running towards everybody, coming at us with the
20 ax. It wasn't just me. It was anybody that would have
21 slowed down, anybody that was there. He was going to go
22 after anybody --
23 Q. Um hum.
24 A. -- in that crowd of people. He didn't know
25 what he was after.
107
1 Q. How did he know that Tristan was at the ball
2 field?
3 A. How did he know that?
4 Q. Yeah.
5 A. I'm not sure.
6 Q. You're not sure about a lot.
7 A. Maybe he -- maybe he -- maybe he talked to
8 him or something. I don't know. Maybe they -- someone
9 talked to somebody, he found out -- found out that he
10 was there.
11 Q. He was sitting in the truck with you. Did
12 they talk on the cell phone?
13 A. I don't think so. I don't know.
14 Q. He was -- he was driving, right?
15 A. He was even calling and threatening him --
16 threatening him all -- all night, all day threatening
17 him.
18 Q. He had been calling and threatening him all
19 day?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. Why didn't you tell me that?
22 A. He -- I think he drove by his house. I
23 don't know.
24 Q. Who drove by whose house?
25 A. Vinny drove by Tristan's house.
108
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. I think.
3 Q. So did he get --
4 A. We happened to be at this --
5 Q. -- did he get calls while you were in the
6 truck with him, with Tristan?
7 A. Yeah, he did.
8 Q. Okay. And what were those calls?
9 A. Just threatened him and saying that --
10 Q. Don't just tell me he threatened him. What
11 happened in the calls?
12 A. I wasn't -- I wasn't on the phone, Officer.
13 Q. Don't just tell me there were calls. What
14 happened in the calls?
15 A. I wasn't on the phone. I don't know what
16 exactly was said.
17 Q. Okay. All right. All right. All right.
18 See, I keep -- I keep telling you you need to tell me
19 everything. You didn't tell me about the calls. I -- I
20 kept -- I just went over and over with you, okay, what
21 happened prior and why this happened. Did you tell me
22 about the calls?
23 A. He -- I told you he called him on his
24 cell --
25 Q. No, no, you -- no, you didn't tell me about
109
1 the calls until just now. Why?
2 A. He was calling --
3 Q. Because you're trying to protect Tristan for
4 some screwed-up reason, that's why.
5 A. I'm not trying to protect him at all, man.
6 Q. Because something went down the other day,
7 some kind of robbery or something el -- or some kind of
8 rip-off and you don't want to tell me about it, and now
9 you're going to go to jail because you don't want to
10 tell me about some stupid rip-off.
11 A. I'm not -- I don't want to go to jail, man.
12 It was self-defense and he was coming after me. He was
13 going to kill me.
14 Q. Well, then you better tell me everything
15 that happened then.
16 A. He ripped him off.
17 Q. Who ripped off who?
18 A. Vinny ripped Tristan off appar --
19 Q. All right. All right. Now we're getting
20 somewhere. So now you do know that.
21 A. I told you Vinny ripped Tristan off from the
22 beginning.
23 Q. No, you didn't tell me that.
24 A. I told you that (inaudible).
25 Q. No, you didn't. You told me he went in his
110
1 house.
2 A. Went in his house and ripped him off.
3 Q. You didn't tell me that, did you?
4 A. I'm not sure what exactly happened. Tristan
5 was looking -- he was looking for Tristan.
6 Q. When did Vinny rip off Tristan?
7 A. I think a couple days ago.
8 Q. And how did that happen? What happened?
9 A. He walked up into his house.
10 Q. And -- and what?
11 A. Stole 40 bucks from him.
12 Q. From Tristan?
13 A. Yeah. Well, took it off him.
14 Q. Was Tristan home when that happened?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So how did he stole -- how did he steal 40
17 bucks from him?
18 A. He took -- he took -- took his money from
19 him.
20 Q. Like how?
21 A. Went up in there and just said I'm -- I'm
22 leaving, took off.
23 Q. What do you mean he went up there and said
24 I'm leaving? I'm going to walk into your house, say I'm
25 leaving and take 40 bucks? What happened?
111
1 A. He took off.
2 Q. What happened? How did he take 40 bucks?
3 A. He said he was leaving and he took off.
4 Q. How did he get the $40?
5 A. He took it.
6 Q. From where?
7 A. From his house.
8 Q. From where?
9 A. Tristan's.
10 Q. Where?
11 A. I'm not sure exactly. I wasn't there,
12 Officer.
13 Q. All right. Well, then what happened?
14 A. I'm not sure. I wasn't there.
15 Q. How did he rip him off of 40 bucks?
16 A. I'm not sure. He ripped him off somehow, I
17 think.
18 Q. No, you don't think, you know.
19 A. I wasn't -- I wasn't there, Officer.
20 Q. What happened?
21 A. I don't know. I wasn't there.
22 Q. Who was there?
23 A. Tristan, I guess.
24 Q. Tristan and who?
25 A. I'm not sure.
112
1 Q. Who else?
2 A. I'm not sure, Officer.
3 Q. You're still not getting it.
4 A. I think Ben -- Ben Millay. Ben Millay.
5 Q. Ben Millay?
6 A. Ben Millay was with him. That's why he
7 slashed his tires.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Something to do with Julie and it's his
10 girlfriend or something. That's why they (inaudible) at
11 him.
12 Q. All right. Why don't you tell me exactly
13 what happened and why they were mad at each other, okay,
14 and stop -- stop beating around the bush, stop giving me
15 little tidbits. Okay? Why don't you just tell me
16 everything. Okay?
17 A. I told you everything.
18 Q. Because -- no, you didn't. We're getting a
19 little more information now. We're getting that -- that
20 Tristan got ripped off of 40 bucks, that there was a
21 girl involved, that Ben Millay was there. Okay?
22 A. Yeah, but I --
23 Q. So you didn't tell me everything, did you?
24 A. But -- but I wasn't there -- I don't -- I
25 don't know exactly.
113
1 Q. Wait a minute?
2 A. It's just hearsay.
3 Q. Did you tell me everything?
4 A. Best as -- as po --
5 Q. Stop it. Did you tell me everything?
6 A. That's not what I know.
7 Q. Did you tell me everything?
8 A. Officer, that's not what I know, it's just
9 what was told me.
10 Q. Did you tell me everything?
11 A. It's what was told to me, Officer.
12 Q. Answer me. Did you tell me everything?
13 A. Everything that I know, yes.
14 Q. No. Did you before?
15 A. That's all I know.
16 Q. No.
17 A. That's all I know.
18 Q. What you're not getting --
19 A. I wasn't there, Off --
20 Q. -- what you're not getting here, okay, is
21 that you are looking at ten times worse trouble than
22 some stupid rip-off, and whoever you're trying to
23 protect, it's just downright silly to be protecting them
24 when you're looking at some serious jail time.
25 A. I'm not trying to protect anybody but
114
1 myself.
2 Q. Well, then why aren't you telling me the
3 whole story?
4 A. That's all I know, Officer.
5 Q. So when did this rip-off happen?
6 A. Two days ago.
7 Q. At Tristan's house?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Who else was there?
10 A. Ben Millay.
11 Q. Who else? Who else?
12 A. Tristan's girlfriend.
13 Q. Tristan's girlfriend?
14 A. Michelle Lachapelle.
15 Q. Michelle what?
16 A. Lachapelle.
17 Q. How do you spell that?
18 A. L-a-c-h-a-p-e-l-l-e.
19 Q. L-a-c-h what?
20 A. A-p-e-l-l-e.
21 Q. L-a-c-h-a-p-l-l-e?
22 A. E-l-l-e.
23 Q. E-l-l-e. Who else?
24 A. I think that was it. I wasn't there, so
25 I -- I don't know exactly. I don't hang out there all
115
1 that often.
2 Q. And we're talking about at Tristan's --
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. -- apartment?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. In Chester?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. Where does Michelle live?
9 A. With Tristan.
10 Q. Where?
11 A. With Tristan.
12 Q. With Tristan?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. How about Ben?
15 A. Ben lives in Springfield.
16 Q. Where?
17 A. Orchard Lane.
18 Q. Where on Orchard Lane?
19 A. I'm not sure of the number exactly.
20 Q. What time of day did this happen?
21 A. What's that?
22 Q. The rip-off. What time of day?
23 A. I don't know. I wasn't there.
24 Q. Day? Night?
25 A. I honestly don't know. I wasn't there,
116
1 Officer.
2 Q. And who did Vinny show up with?
3 A. I was told he showed up with Kirby Donahue.
4 Q. With who? With who?
5 A. Kirby Donahue.
6 Q. Kirby Donahue?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. Where does he live?
9 A. That's a -- that's a girl.
10 Q. Okay. Where does she live?
11 A. She lives in Chester.
12 Q. She lives where?
13 A. In Chester.
14 Q. Where?
15 A. I'm not sure where.
16 Q. Is that Vinny's girlfriend?
17 A. No, I don't think so. No. I don't know.
18 Q. Who -- who is she?
19 A. I'm not a part of this. I wasn't a part of
20 the whole scene until today.
21 Q. Well, you are now.
22 A. Until today, until I -- he was chasing me
23 with that ax today.
24 Q. Well, you're a part of it now.
25 A. I know. Until he chased me with an ax.
117
1 Q. All right. Well, it's not fair, but you're
2 a part of it now.
3 A. I know. I'm telling you everything I know.
4 It's all I can do, you know?
5 Q. Well, I'm concerned because you didn't tell
6 me everything you knew.
7 A. I'm so worked up right now, Officer.
8 Q. No, it's --
9 A. I'm tired.
10 Q. No, what's happening is you're trying to
11 protect these guys.
12 A. I'm not trying to protect them at all. I
13 was trying to protect myself from getting hit with an
14 ax.
15 Q. So how did Vinny rip off Tristan?
16 A. I don't know. I guess he walked up in there
17 and took -- took it from him, I guess.
18 Q. Took $40?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Right, but what kind of force did he use?
21 A. I think he just walked up in there and just
22 said this is what's happening. He had a Taser and a
23 knife --
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. -- the other day.
118
1 Q. He had a Taser and a knife?
2 A. Yep.
3 Q. And who told you this?
4 A. Tristan told me.
5 Q. When did he tell you about this? When did
6 he tell you?
7 A. Couple day -- yesterday.
8 Q. Yesterday?
9 A. Yeah, it happened yesterday.
10 Q. Well, you said the rip-off happened two days
11 ago.
12 A. I wasn't a part of it, so I'm not sure what
13 happened. I wasn't a part of what happened.
14 Q. So did it happen Friday or Saturday? The
15 rip-off.
16 A. I guess it would have been Saturday.
17 Q. So it happened on Saturday?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. And when did Tristan tell you? Same day?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. How did he tell you?
22 A. Yesterday. On the phone.
23 Q. Why is he ripping off 40 bucks from him?
24 A. I don't know. He just thought he --
25 Q. Is this a drug deal?
119
1 A. I guess he thought he was a --
2 Q. Is this -- is this drug stuff?
3 A. Guess he thought he was a big dude and
4 wanted to go up in there and do whatever he wanted to
5 do.
6 Q. Well, is this drug stuff?
7 A. I don't believe it was.
8 Q. Is Tristan dealing some kind of drugs?
9 A. Not that I know of.
10 Q. Is Vinny?
11 A. Not that I know of. I don't even know who
12 this kid is.
13 Q. Well, there's a reason he's ripping him off
14 for 40 bucks.
15 A. But I don't understand why. I don't know.
16 Q. Well, yeah, you do know why.
17 A. I don't know why he ripped him off.
18 Q. Your friend called you and told you he
19 ripped him off and he told you why. Why?
20 A. He felt the need to go up in there and rip
21 him off, I guess. I don't know.
22 Q. Kyle --
23 A. He came after me.
24 Q. Kyle --
25 A. He's been coming after everybody, I guess.
120
1 Q. Kyle, you got to lay it out on the table
2 here.
3 A. I'm telling you everything I know, Officer.
4 Q. Do you understand how serious this is?
5 A. Yeah, I do.
6 Q. Okay. You need to lay it out on the table.
7 Why did he rip him off?
8 A. I don't know why he ripped him off.
9 Q. Kyle, why did he rip him off?
10 A. Thought he was bigger -- thought he was
11 bigger than him and he thought he could rip him off.
12 Q. Well, what's -- what's the connection?
13 A. I don't know.
14 Q. What's the connection?
15 A. I don't know. He doesn't know him.
16 Q. Oh, so he just showed up?
17 A. He's only met him once -- Tristan's only met
18 him once before in his life. He's a dangerous person, I
19 guess, and going up in there and saying this is what's
20 happening.
21 Q. Well, what's -- you -- you told me there was
22 a problem with some girls or something. What -- what's
23 the problem there?
24 A. I guess Ben Millay was dating his -- his
25 girlfriend now or something.
121
1 Q. Dating whose girlfriend?
2 A. Vinny.
3 Q. Vinny's girlfriend?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Is that Kirb -- or -- is that Kirby?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Who is it?
8 A. Julie Cronberg.
9 Q. Julie who?
10 A. Cronberg.
11 Q. Cronberg?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. How do you spell that?
14 A. C-r-o-n-b-e-r-g.
15 Q. Where does she live?
16 A. Springfield.
17 Q. Where in Springfield?
18 A. On Summer Street.
19 Q. Where on Summer Street?
20 A. I just know it's on Summer Street. I'm not
21 sure exactly where they live.
22 Q. Who's she live with?
23 A. I think her parents.
24 Q. What house is it?
25 A. I'm not sure. I never been there.
122
1 Q. What are the parents' names?
2 A. Julie's?
3 Q. Yeah.
4 A. I don't know.
5 Q. You know her phone number?
6 A. No. I don't -- I don't associate with any
7 of these people.
8 Q. So --
9 A. I got caught in the middle of this bad
10 situation.
11 Q. So -- so Ben was dating or is dating Julie?
12 A. He was dating -- was dating her.
13 Q. Okay. And what -- so what's the problem?
14 A. Now Vinny -- Vinny is dating her and he
15 showed up --
16 Q. Vinny's dating her now?
17 A. Yeah. Vinny showed up there because I don't
18 know if he knew Ben was there or what -- what he did.
19 Q. What's he upset about though?
20 A. I think the fact that Ben used to hang out
21 with her or --
22 Q. Why would he be upset about that?
23 A. Because I guess he's just jealous.
24 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you again why did he
25 rip him off of 40 bucks? I know you know.
123
1 A. I don't know.
2 Q. I can -- I can read you like a book. You
3 know. You're just not telling me.
4 A. Felt -- he felt the need to walk up in there
5 and rip him off, I guess.
6 Q. Why?
7 A. He did -- didn't like him or something. I
8 don't know. I wasn't a part of --
9 Q. There's more to it that he didn't like and
10 you know why.
11 A. I wasn't a part of it though. I wasn't a
12 part of it though.
13 Q. You know why. Because Tristan told you why.
14 A. I wasn't a part of it though.
15 Q. I don't care if you weren't a part of it.
16 Tristan told you why he ripped him off. Why did he rip
17 him off? It's part of this whole thing now.
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Like it or not, it's part of why Vinny
20 showed up with an ax today.
21 A. But -- but he -- he ripped -- he was ripping
22 people off.
23 Q. Okay. But why did he rip off Tristan?
24 A. No, because he can rip peop -- everybody
25 off. I don't know.
124
1 Q. Why did he rip off Tristan?
2 A. I don't know why he ripped him off. He
3 doesn't like him. I'm not sure why he ripped him off.
4 I'm not -- I wasn't a part of any of that, Officer.
5 All's I know is I got caught in the middle of it
6 today --
7 Q. Yeah, you did.
8 A. -- when he came at me with an ax.
9 Q. So now you need to tell me.
10 A. I wasn't a part of any of that.
11 Q. I'm not saying you were, but you need to
12 tell me what you know.
13 A. It is what I know.
14 Q. Do you know why he ripped him off?
15 A. What do you mean why did he rip him off?
16 Q. Why did he go up there and rip him off 40
17 bucks? You know why.
18 A. Maybe he needed the money.
19 Q. Maybe, but you know why.
20 A. Why did he need money?
21 Q. What's the reason -- no, what's the reason
22 he went up there? There's a reason he picked Tristan's
23 house to go up and rip him off.
24 A. There is a reason, but I don't -- I can't
25 tell you what he was thinking. I can't tell you what he
125
1 was thinking at the time.
2 Q. You can tell me what Tristan told you.
3 A. Ripped him off 40 bucks.
4 Q. Tristan told you this yesterday?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. What else did he tell you?
7 A. That's it.
8 Q. What did you do last night?
9 A. Sat at home. I had to work this morning.
10 Q. Last night where -- where -- where were you
11 last night?
12 A. At my house.
13 Q. With who?
14 A. Just me and Jerry, my dog.
15 Q. With just your dog?
16 A. Yeah. Jerry.
17 Q. Who's Jay?
18 A. Jerry.
19 Q. Jay who?
20 A. Jerry Ucci.
21 Q. Okay. The guy that was with you today?
22 A. Yep. We work together.
23 Q. What -- what did you -- what were you doing
24 at your house last night?
25 A. Just watching TV, hanging out. Went to bed
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1 early.
2 Q. What time did you go to bed?
3 A. Ten.
4 Q. And what about Jay?
5 A. Same.
6 Q. He sleep at your house last night?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. He went to bed at ten too?
9 A. He's been staying there. He stays there.
10 He works with me.
11 Q. You said you went to work today?
12 A. This morning earlier.
13 Q. What time did you wake up this morning?
14 A. Around 9:30, 10 o'clock.
15 Q. Okay. What did you do then?
16 A. Went to work for a few hours.
17 Q. Where do you -- where do you work?
18 A. I worked in Springfield at my parents'
19 house.
20 Q. Where? Where do they live?
21 A. Walnut Hill Court.
22 Q. Which house?
23 A. 3 Walnut Hill Court.
24 Q. What did you do there?
25 A. Some landscaping. I do landscaping. Then
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1 went out and did some scouting in the woods, hung some
2 shot cameras for --
3 Q. What time were you done landscaping?
4 A. It was probably -- we -- we only put in a
5 few hours there.
6 Q. So what time were you done landscaping?
7 A. Not sure exactly what time it was. I think
8 it was just after noon.
9 Q. Early afternoon, late afternoon?
10 A. Just after noon. I think it was one
11 o'clock, right around one o'clock.
12 Q. Think one o'clock? Who was landscaping with
13 you?
14 A. Jerry.
15 Q. Who?
16 A. Jerry.
17 Q. Jerry?
18 A. Ucci.
19 Q. Just you and Jerry?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. Nobody else. Okay. What did you do at one?
22 A. We did some scouting.
23 Q. What's that?
24 A. We did some scouting in the woods.
25 Q. The two of you?
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1 A. Two of us, yeah.
2 Q. Where did you go scouting?
3 A. Up in the apple orchard where I hung --
4 Q. Where's that?
5 A. Springfield right up by my parents' house.
6 Q. Where? Where -- where in -- where is it?
7 A. North Springfield. Orchard -- orchard
8 where --
9 Q. Okay. What -- like where did you -- where
10 did you go, where'd you park, where'd you --
11 A. Parked at the top of the orchard and walked
12 up.
13 Q. Okay. What -- what's the name of the road?
14 A. It's Double Four Orchards.
15 Q. What's that?
16 A. Double Four Orchards.
17 Q. Double Four?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Okay. But where do you go -- where do you
20 park?
21 A. Right at the top, the orchard.
22 Q. Did you drive into the orchard?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Yes?
25 A. Yes. There's a road that goes all the way
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1 up to the top.
2 Q. Okay. How do you -- I don't know where this
3 orchard is. How do you get to it?
4 A. Right -- right by my house. You go up --
5 you go up (inaudible).
6 Q. Up your parent -- by your parents' house or
7 your house?
8 A. My parents' house.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. It's a long drive to get up there.
11 Q. Is it -- is it behind your parents' house?
12 Where is it?
13 A. Yeah, it's behind my parents' house.
14 Q. Okay. So what road do you take to the
15 orchard?
16 A. It's a no-name road. Off of Walnut Hill
17 Court.
18 Q. Off -- so off Walnut Hill Court?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Okay. Where'd you go?
21 A. Up to the orchard.
22 Q. Okay. And then what?
23 A. From there? Met up with my father.
24 Q. You said you drove to the top of the
25 orchard?
130
1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. In your truck?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. So you were actually in the apple orchard
5 with your truck?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. Did you see anybody?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Jerry -- is it Jerry or Jay?
10 A. Jerry.
11 Q. Jerry?
12 A. Jerry.
13 Q. He go with you?
14 A. Yeah. Went out and hung some trail cameras
15 for scouting, take pictures of the deer, digital
16 cameras.
17 Q. You set some up?
18 A. Yeah. Take pictures of the deer.
19 Q. How many did you set up?
20 A. Two.
21 Q. Okay. Where are they?
22 A. Up in the orchard.
23 Q. Where?
24 A. There's a couple in a couple different
25 corners up there. There's two corners that I set them
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1 up at.
2 Q. Do you have permission to go up in it?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. From who?
5 A. From the owner.
6 Q. Who's he?
7 A. There's a couple different areas up there.
8 Q. Who's the owner?
9 A. A guy from Pennsylvania.
10 Q. What's his name?
11 A. I can't remember his name right now. I'm
12 get -- I'm really tired, Officer. Been a long day.
13 Q. Yep. So how long you up in the orchard?
14 A. Just for a few hours.
15 Q. Okay. What time do you leave?
16 A. It was probably around 3:30, 4 o'clock.
17 Went and did some errands.
18 Q. Where'd you go?
19 A. Just in Chester. I had to go back, do some
20 laundry -- pick up some laundry at my parents' house,
21 then went back to Chester, had some dinner.
22 Q. Where'd you eat dinner?
23 A. Had dinner at McDonald's on the way back
24 through to Chester.
25 Q. McDonald's where?
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1 A. Springfield.
2 Q. So you said you did errands. You -- you got
3 laundry at your parents'?
4 A. Yeah. My parents' house I did laundry.
5 Q. What else?
6 A. That's it.
7 Q. Did you actually do it or just pick it up or
8 what?
9 A. I'd been -- I had been working on it, put a
10 load in, pick it up, put a load in, pick it up.
11 Q. What time did you eat at McDonald's?
12 A. I'm not sure what time it was.
13 Q. Best guess.
14 A. Sometime in the afternoon. We were running
15 all kinds of errands.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. Went back to Chester.
18 Q. What time did you eat at McDonald's?
19 A. Somewhere around afternoon.
20 Q. What time?
21 A. It was 3:30, 3:00.
22 Q. 3:30, 3:00?
23 A. Three o'clock.
24 Q. Three, 3:30?
25 A. Yeah.
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1 Q. You say you left the orchard at 3:30 or
2 4:00.
3 A. We got -- we got McDonald's right around
4 then. We left the orchard and went and had McDonald's.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. We did a bunch of things. We went
7 landscaping. We did a bunch of things together.
8 Q. You left the orchard. How -- how long after
9 you left the orchard did you get McDonald's?
10 A. It was not too long after.
11 Q. Five minutes? Ten minutes? What?
12 A. Half hour. Had McDonald's.
13 Q. Okay. (Inaudible).
14 A. We went to Chester.
15 Q. So did you do your errands before or after
16 you went to McDonald's?
17 A. We -- we were doing errands all at the same
18 time.
19 Q. Okay. But did you do them before or after
20 you went to McDonald's?
21 A. Did errands before and after.
22 Q. Before and after? What other errands did
23 you do besides going to your parents' and getting
24 laundry?
25 A. I can't take any more questions tonight.
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1 I'm tired.
2 DET. SGT. JENKINS: Okay. Okay. It's
3 approximately 0133 hours. I'm going to stop the
4 recording.
5 (Thereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
6