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Sand has refused to give us the complete interrogation statements of Kyle Bolaski and Jerry Ucci. He claims that no statements were taken from them as to all events preceeding the meeting at the field. The only statement he gave was the 1st one from that night which only details from when they are at the field, nothing about any events leading up to the field! Yet statements were taken of every other witness! In some case twice and in the case of Julie, 3 times! Why would you not take statements of the KILLER? Or the person that lured Vinnie to the field! They obviously did take statements! They are either holding them out or have deleted everything preceeding the field then gave us that altered copy. A lot of testimony came out in the trial from interview statements of Ucci that are not in the statements given to us. Bolaski and Ucci make very incriminating statements about the real events! Corey Bolaski said they were in Kyle’s truck all along and the rifles were also in the truck! Kyle says they are in his truck and says the 30-06 rifle is his!





Kyle Bolaski-GRAND JURY

19               THE WITNESS:  I do.

 20  BY MR. SAND: 

 21  Q.     Would you introduce yourself, please, to the grand

 22  jury?

 23  A.     Hello, everybody.  My name is Kyle David Bolaski.

 24  Q.     Would you spell your last name?

 25  A.     B-O-L-A-S-K-I.


 01  Q.     How are you feeling today?

 02  A.     A little nervous.

 03  Q.     Okay.  So I think everyone will understand that. 

 04  We're in an intimate setting here, as much as you can, if

 05  you try to relax, I'm going to ask you a number of

 06  questions.  When I'm done, members of the grand jury may

 07  have some questions, as well. 

 08  A.     Okay.

 09  Q.     Before we get started, I need to make sure you

 10  understand that the grand jury is considering charges

 11  against you; understand that?

 12  A.     Yes, sir.

 13  Q.     Okay.  And do you understand that you don't have

 14  to be here?

 15  A.     Yes, sir.

 16  Q.     You want to get up and leave at any point, you're

 17  allowed to do that?

 18  A.     I'm here for the time being.

 19  Q.     Okay.  And that any answer that you give, the

 20  grand jury can consider in deciding whether charges are

 21  appropriate or not against you?

 22  A.     Yes, sir.

 23  Q.     And they can be used against you?

 24  A.     Yes, sir.

 25  Q.     If you need a break for any reason, whether that's


 01  personal or because you want to consult with someone

 02  outside of our presence, let us know, and you're

 03  absolutely able to do that. 

 04  A.     Okay.

 05  Q.     Okay?

 06  A.     Yep.

 07  Q.     So tell us how old you are?

 08  A.     Twenty-four years old, I was born in January,

 09  1984.

 10  Q.     Where did you grow up?

 11  A.     Springfield, Vermont.

 12  Q.     How old is your brother Corey?

 13  A.     Yeah.

 14  Q.     How old is Corey?

 15  A.     He's twenty-two.

 16  Q.     You go to school in the area?

 17  A.     I went to Springfield High School.

 18  Q.     And how far?

 19  A.     I graduated.

 20  Q.     What year did you graduate?

 21  A.     2002.

 22  Q.     What have you done for work since graduating?

 23  A.     After completion of high school, I went to school

 24  at U Mass Amherst.  I attended Stockbridge School of

 25  Agriculture at U Mass Amherst.


 01  Q.     What did you learn at Stockbridge?

 02  A.     I studied turf grass management.  I pursued that

 03  and graduated with an associates degree in that.

 04  Q.     Okay.  And so what kind of work have you done?

 05  A.     After college, I started working at golf courses. 

 06  I worked at golf courses throughout high school and

 07  continued working at golf courses after college.  I

 08  worked at six golf courses in the state, as well as

 09  landscaping.  I've done that ever since I was about ten

 10  or eleven.  I'm interested in the green industry.

 11  Q.     In the what?

 12  A.     Green industry.  Landscaping.

 13  Q.     Where are you living?

 14  A.     Currently live in Springfield.

 15  Q.     Okay.  Back this past summer, where were you

 16  living?

 17  A.     Chester. 

 18  Q.     Whereabouts?

 19  A.     North Street.  Mom, mom has a business, Simply

 20  Country, in Chester.  I rent an apartment upstairs.

 21  Q.     Where did your brother Corey live? 

 22  A.     Downstairs.

 23  Q.     In the same building?

 24  A.     Yes, sir.

 25  Q.     And this past summer, what were you doing for


 01  work?

 02  A.     Was working at Homestead Landscaping in Stratton.

 03  Q.     It's fine, these are the folks who make the

 04  decisions, so don't feel like you have to, I mean, if you

 05  want to tell them, that's fine.  I know the setup is not

 06  ideal.  If we were in the upstairs room, I'd stand in

 07  way that you could look at all of us at the same time. 

 08  A.     I'm just trying to get a focus.

 09  Q.     I know. 

 10               JUROR:  Everyone is staring at you. 

 11  BY MR. SAND: 

 12  Q.     We are not meaning to split you like that.  It's

 13  the reality of how long -- I know you were here

 14  yesterday, and we can get done. 

 15  A.     That's fine.

 16  Q.     What did I ask you -- what you doing for work this

 17  past summer?

 18  A.     A spread technician, applying pesticides and

 19  fertilizer at Homestead Landscaping.

 20  Q.     All right.  What did Corey do for work?

 21  A.     Corey works at MJS Landscaping in Rockingham.

 22  Q.     And we met Jerry Ucci yesterday. 

 23  A.     Yes, sir.

 24  Q.     How do you know Jerry?

 25  A.     I met him beginning of the summer.  He started at


 01  Homestead when I started at Homestead.  And we met there. 

 02  He was a co-worker of mine.

 03  Q.     Friendship developed?

 04  A.     Yep.

 05  Q.     Are you guys close friends, good friends,?

 06  A.     We grew to be close friends, and he eventually was

 07  living with me because he didn't have a place to live, so

 08  told him he could stay at my apartment.

 09  Q.     Okay.  Before August of this year, Mr. Bolaski,

 10  did you know a person by the name of Vincent Tamburello?

 11  A.     No, sir, not at all.

 12  Q.     Ever meet him?

 13  A.     Never.

 14  Q.     Had you ever heard about him? 

 15  A.     Never.

 16  Q.     When is the first time that the name Vincent

 17  Tamburello popped up on your radar screen?

 18  A.     I heard briefly about a series of events that

 19  occurred, I guess it was on Saturday, through one of my

 20  friends, Gib Bastian. 

 21  Q.     What did Gib tell you?

 22  A.     He said that he had knocked him out and he had to

 23  go to the emergency room, and that was about it, on

 24  Saturday.  Wasn't too concerned with, you know, what had

 25  happened.  I wasn't involved so, you know, I really, it


 01  was an unfortunate event, but like I said, I wasn't

 02  involved so --

 03  Q.     Who told you about what happened to Gib?

 04  A.     Gib.

 05  Q.     How did he tell you that, in person, by phone? 

 06  A.     By phone.

 07  Q.     When did he tell you that?

 08  A.     Saturday night.

 09  Q.     Was that the day that he had been punched?

 10  A.     Yes.

 11  Q.     You know where he was when he told you that?

 12  A.     I think he was on the way to the emergency room.

 13  Q.     Who called whom?

 14  A.     I believe I may have called him just to see what

 15  was going on.  He's a friend of mine. 

 16  Q.     Going on in general, or going on about this

 17  incident?

 18  A.     Just called him in general.

 19  Q.     Other than -- this floor squeaks.  I'll try to

 20  stand still.  I'm a natural pacer, but, sorry -- other

 21  than that conversation with Gib, did you have any

 22  discussion with anyone about Mr. Tamburello on Saturday?

 23  A.     No, sir.

 24  Q.     Where did you spend Saturday night?

 25  A.     At my apartment.


 01  Q.     Okay.  And did anyone spend the night also at the

 02  apartment?

 03  A.     Jerry Ucci.

 04  Q.     Jerry did? 

 05  A.     Yes, sir.  Like I said, he had been living there.

 06  Q.     Okay.  You have a pet, we've learned?

 07  A.     Yes, his name is Harley.

 08  Q.     All right.  Was Harley there?

 09  A.     Harley was there.

 10  Q.     Okay. 

 11  A.     He's always with me.  Never leaves my side.

 12  Q.     What is Harley?

 13  A.     Harley's a Husky Border Collie mix.  Year and a

 14  half.  He's very fast. 

 15  Q.     Fast.  We're going to walk through in some detail

 16  Sunday. 

 17  A.     Okay.

 18  Q.     What time did you get up?

 19  A.     Approximately nine-thirty, ten o'clock. 

 20  Q.     Okay.  What did you do?

 21  A.     We had intention to be working for my father.  I

 22  had been working at Homestead during the week.  On the

 23  weekends usually I'd try to make some extra money by

 24  working for my father.  He had side jobs, and he had some

 25  landscaping projects that we had going on at his house,


 01  so we went there.  We did a little bit of work.

 02  Q.     We being who?

 03  A.     Jerry Ucci and myself.

 04  Q.     All right.  So --

 05  A.     So we worked there for a few hours, and, you know,

 06  we'd been working all week, so we said, you know what,

 07  let's go have a little enjoyment.  So we went up on the

 08  hill by my house, and I had to hang some scouting

 09  cameras.  I'm an avid hunter, deer hunter.

 10  Q.     Is what a scouting camera?

 11  A.     It's essentially a digital camera where you hang

 12  on a tree on various trails, actually takes pictures of

 13  the deer that are coming through, so you can decide, you

 14  know, where, where the best spot to hunt.  So we went up

 15  there for about an hour and a half.  Jerry had split off

 16  from me, and I went on my cameras.  He actually stalked a

 17  deer a spike horn he told me about it. 

 18  Q.     What is that, stalking?

 19  A.     He saw it, he was trying to get up close as he

 20  could.  It's pretty neat.  He told me about it.

 21  Q.     With the intention to kill it?

 22  A.     No, just to see how close he could get.  He said

 23  it was pretty neat encounter, actually.

 24  Q.     What vehicle were you in?

 25  A.     I was in my truck.


 01  Q.     What kind of vehicle is that?

 02  A.     Ford F350.

 03  Q.     When did you get that Ford F350?

 04  A.     I purchased that in July, I believe.

 05  Q.     What condition was that truck in?

 06  A.     Brand, pretty much brand new.  It was a 2005. 

 07  Excellent condition.

 08  Q.     At this time, are there any guns in your car?

 09  A.     Yeah, a .22, semi-automatic, Marlin, that I always

 10  keep in my truck.

 11  Q.     Scope or no scope?

 12  A.     Had scope, three by nine.

 13  Q.     Why do you keep a rifle in your truck?

 14  A.     Well, I always have, especially when I go

 15  scouting.  Like to have one in the woods because to

 16  target practice.  It's nice to have one when you go out

 17  in the woods.  Not to use against animals in particular,

 18  but coyote season is year round, if you do see coyotes,

 19  it is legal to take them.

 20  Q.     And any point this day, Sunday, did you fire that

 21  .22?

 22  A.     Yes.

 23  Q.     When was that?

 24  A.     It was later on in the day.  Riding in Popple

 25  Dungeon.


 01  Q.     What did you fire at?

 02  A.     A tree.

 03  Q.     For what purpose?

 04  A.     Just to see how it was shooting.

 05  Q.     Who was with you at the time you fired that .22?

 06  A.     Jerry Ucci and Corey, my brother.

 07  Q.     Just the three of you?

 08  A.     Yeah.

 09  Q.     So let's back, how was that gun working?

 10  A.     Fine.

 11  Q.     The .22; fine? 

 12  A.     Yeah.

 13  Q.     Did anyone else fire it that day, before you get

 14  to the ball field?

 15  A.     No, sir.

 16  Q.     So when you were done firing at the tree, you put

 17  it back in your truck?

 18  A.     Yes.

 19  Q.     So let's, we're back now, you're hanging the game

 20  cameras.  Where is Jerry?

 21  A.     Right, we actually separated.  He went one way, I

 22  went the other way.

 23  Q.     Come back together again?

 24  A.     Yep.

 25  Q.     What happens next?


 01  A.     We proceeding to back down to my house, my

 02  parents' house, and we decided to get some lunch, went

 03  down to McDonalds, never a good idea.  But we went down

 04  to McDonalds to get some food, and I knew my brother was

 05  going to be coming back.  He was working with my father

 06  that day, and so we were waiting for him to have lunch. 

 07  Ended up showing up around two or two-thirty.  And which

 08  case Corey came with us.

 09  Q.     So, you've gone back to the Springfield area,

 10  lunch at McDonalds, and you're going to your parents'

 11  house in Springfield?

 12  A.     Yep.

 13  Q.     And then Corey and your dad show up?

 14  A.     Yep.  Actually a part I left out, too, I was doing

 15  some laundry at my parents' house, so I couldn't really

 16  afford to be, to be doing at the Laundromat, so I was

 17  doing laundry intermittently trying to get that done at

 18  the same time.

 19  Q.     I think the parents in this room will give you

 20  credit if you were actually doing it and not just

 21  dropping it off.  So, okay. 

 22  A.     I was told I had to.

 23               JUROR:  He's brainwashed.

 24  BY MR. SAND. 

 25  Q.     It's one of my favorite expressions, a little


 01  a side, you do it quickly, you do it willingly, and you

 02  do it badly, then you don't get asked again. 

 03               Okay, all right.  So you didn't have a

 04  plan at the start of the day to hang out with Corey, or

 05  did you?

 06  A.     Not originally.  It was when we met up, we had

 07  planned to work pretty much all the day at my father's

 08  house.  We had been trying to wrap up a project that

 09  we're working on.  Given that that is Sunday, we said

 10  let's enjoy a day, we got to go back to work tomorrow and

 11  start our workweek all over again, as we all do, I

 12  figured it would be nice to have some time to ourselves

 13  to enjoy the day.

 14  Q.     So it's now you and Jerry and Corey?

 15  A.     That's correct.

 16  Q.     In your truck, vehicle?

 17  A.     That's correct.

 18  Q.     Where do you go?

 19  A.     We had, we head towards Chester where we were

 20  living at the time.  And we decided to stop at a Gould's

 21  Market, which is in Chester.  I'm not sure if you guys

 22  are familiar with that.  Corey had to get a soda, and so

 23  Jerry and I waited in the truck.  Actually another

 24  co-worker of ours, Ian Sutherland, had stopped, and he

 25  was talking to us about just whatever, you know.  And he


 01  had mentioned -- we'd told him we were going to do some

 02  scouting, we had plans for scouting -- he had mentioned

 03  his stepfather had some acres up in Popple Dungeon Road

 04  that we could go up, potentially look at, check out, so

 05  we said all right, and so that was the plan.  Corey got

 06  back in the truck, and I'd stopped at Mike Gleason's

 07  house.  I'd given him some hostas, and I wanted to make

 08  sure he got them in the ground.  But I had driven by his

 09  house, they were wilting.  I said got to get these into

 10  the ground, Mike, got to get these in the ground.  I

 11  talked to him, you better get those in the ground today,

 12  you're going to lose them if you don't.

 13  Q.     What kind of hostas?

 14  A.     Variegated green and while leaf.  Just a

 15  variegated hostas.  Purple blooming flowers.  So I talked

 16  to him, told him we were going to go scouting.  He said

 17  I'm going to get them in the ground, I'm going to get

 18  them in the ground.  So we left, and we made our way up

 19  to Popple Dungeon and drove out there to where we thought

 20  he was talking about and --

 21  Q.     He being Ian, your friend?

 22  A.     Ian's, yeah.  Where he said that the land was. 

 23  And I ended up on a class-four road with my truck. 

 24  Q.     Was that, were you not happy about that?

 25  A.     No, it was pretty narrow.  I have a full-size Ford


 01  F350, I was where deer would possibly be, so I said,

 02  okay, we'll take it driving down there.  My brother's

 03  complaining in the back, you know, it's bumpy.  He's in

 04  the back seat, bang, banging around.  He said calm down

 05  here, he said I'm sick of sitting back here.  Along the

 06  way we'd stopped and seen some deer runs where the deer

 07  crossed the road and stopped and checked it out, looked

 08  for tracks, you know, looked like a good area to hunt,

 09  possibly during bow season.  And one of those stops is

 10  when I had stopped to fire the .22.

 11  Q.     Okay.  How many doors to the truck?

 12  A.     It's a two-door with a folding-out four doors.

 13  Q.     What does that mean?

 14  A.     When you open the front doors, there is latch you

 15  can open the back door, back two doors.

 16  Q.     So you can't open the back door without opening

 17  the front door?

 18  A.     That's correct.

 19  Q.     All right.  And the doors open, how do we describe

 20  that? 

 21  A.     The front door is -- say this is, okay, the front

 22  of the truck is facing you guys, those doors open that

 23  way, obviously.  The back doors open this way, opposite

 24  ways. 

 25  Q.     So when all four are open, there's sort of like a


 01  triangle shape?

 02  A.     Yep, yep, that's correct.

 03  Q.     All right.  Another way to describe it, the front

 04  door opens to the front, the back doors open towards the

 05  back? 

 06  A.     That's correct.

 07  Q.     Okay.  Does that work?

 08  A.     That works.

 09  Q.     Okay.  So best estimate, what time is it when you

 10  fire the .22?

 11  A.     It's probably, we were on that road for possibly

 12  an hour, seemed like it never ended, of course we had

 13  gotten out a few times, Corey had to go to the bathroom

 14  once.  We were looking for deer signs, rubs, where deer,

 15  bucks would rub trees and stuff so --

 16  Q.     Just so we're clear, sorry to cut you off, the

 17  male deer rubs against a tree, you can see the sign of

 18  that?

 19  A.     Yeah, that's correct.

 20  Q.     Okay. 

 21  A.     Typically this time of year they were trying to

 22  get the velvet off their antlers.  They carry velvet

 23  throughout the summer.  They rub the trees to get the

 24  velvet off.  This was approximately maybe three-thirty,

 25  this point, quarter of four.


 01  Q.     It's Jerry, it's Corey?

 02  A.     That's correct.

 03  Q.     Okay.  How much you have to drink at this point in

 04  time, alcoholic beverages?

 05  A.     Maybe one beer at that point. 

 06  Q.     What alcohol is in the vehicle?

 07  A.     It was a six-pack of Budweiser there.

 08  Q.     You had one?

 09  A.     Yep.

 10  Q.     When did you have that?

 11  A.     I think I may have had that towards the end of the

 12  road, down, coming out.

 13  Q.     Okay.  Is Jerry drinking?

 14  A.     Jerry, I think Jerry had one, yeah.

 15  Q.     And your brother?

 16  A.     I'm pretty sure, yeah.

 17  Q.     Okay.  And have you smoked any marijuana at that

 18  point?

 19  A.     No, sir.

 20  Q.     At any point on Sunday did you smoke marijuana?

 21  A.     No, sir.

 22  Q.     At any point on Sunday were you in a vehicle when

 23  someone smoked marijuana?

 24  A.     No, sir. 

 25  Q.     Any point in Sunday when you were in a vehicle


 01  when you were aware there was marijuana in the vehicle?

 02  A.     Yes, sir.

 03  Q.     Whose was that?

 04  A.     Jerry had a little bit.

 05  Q.     Your testimony is that Jerry did not smoke that at

 06  any point on Sunday in your presence?

 07  A.     No, sir, no.

 08  Q.     No, he did not?

 09  A.     I didn't see him smoke it any place.

 10  Q.     All right.  Did you use any illegal drugs on

 11  Sunday, August 17?

 12  A.     No, sir.

 13  Q.     Your brother is complaining because he's in the

 14  back seat?

 15  A.     That's correct.

 16  Q.     Is that a bucket seat, a bench seat?

 17  A.     It's a bench seat in the back, but Fords, the Ford

 18  seats in the back aren't very comfortable, kind of bench

 19  seats that's not very cushioned, I guess.  I can give him

 20  credit why he was complaining because it wasn't very

 21  comfortable.

 22  Q.     Where, if you have three or four people in your

 23  truck, where does, where is the .22 kept?

 24  A.     The .22 is usually kept in the back seat.  I

 25  typically have a gun rack.  I had a gun rack in my other


 01  truck, but the gun rack didn't fit in this truck, because

 02  the windows is larger in the back, so it was in the back

 03  seat at that point.

 04  Q.     All right.  So I don't know what -- you made a

 05  hand gesture?

 06  A.     The barrel was facing down or under the seat.

 07  Q.     Towards, under the back seat?

 08  A.     Yes.

 09  Q.     And then the stalk?

 10  A.     The stalk would be facing towards the front.

 11  Q.     So is it on the back seat, on the ground, on the

 12  console?

 13  A.     The butt would have been on the console the barrel

 14  would be facing down.

 15  Q.     All right.  So the front seats are those bucket

 16  seats?

 17  A.     They are, it's a, I think they call it a

 18  two-thirds, then one, so in a sense you can move

 19  two-thirds of the seat with one side and the other side

 20  is single seat.  But has a folding down arm rest. 

 21  Q.     All right.  Was that folded down?

 22  A.     Yes.

 23  Q.     So, the driver could rest his arm on that arm

 24  rest, and the passenger could rest his arm on the arm

 25  rest, as well?


 01  A.     That's correct.

 02  Q.     So was the .22 resting on the arm rest at all?

 03  A.     Yes.

 04  Q.     All right.  And that's the wooden butt end of the

 05  stock end that would go against your shoulder if you were

 06  firing?

 07  A.     That's correct.

 08  Q.     Pointed downward with the barrel under the back

 09  seat?

 10  A.     That's correct.

 11  Q.     Yes?

 12  A.     Yes.

 13  Q.     Okay.  So Corey is complaining, you now tell us

 14  understandably because he's in the back seat.  What do

 15  you do?

 16  A.     Well, we're still on this road, first of all,

 17  clear that up.  And we're coming down to the end.  I had

 18  got a phone call from my mother at her store.  At this

 19  point it's approximately four, four-thirty.  She's

 20  getting ready to close, she closes at five.  And Harley

 21  wasn't with us at that point, my dog Harley.  She had

 22  been watching him because they were, we were working

 23  earlier, and bringing a dog into the woods when you're

 24  scouting isn't a really good idea.  You got him pulling,

 25  chasing deer, trying to, you know, it's not a good idea. 


 01  Got my hands full.  So I left him there.  So she calls at

 02  approximately four, four-thirty, and I answer, she says

 03  where are you?  I said I'm on a back road, Popple

 04  Dungeon.  She says, well, I'm getting ready to close,

 05  it's getting close to five, will you come pick Harley up? 

 06  I said yeah, I'm on this road, I'm trying to get off this

 07  road, never been down this road, so I'll be there as soon

 08  as I can.  So, we mosey on down, make our way out of this

 09  road and head toward Chester and proceed to my apartment

 10  building and her store to pick up Harley.

 11  Q.     What is her store?

 12  A.     Simply Country.

 13  Q.     Which is what?

 14  A.     It's a, like interior decorating general store

 15  type.  She sells curtains and decorations and crafts. 

 16  It's a country store.

 17  Q.     Okay. 

 18  A.     Furniture. 

 19  Q.     Up to this point had you been the only driver of

 20  your truck?

 21  A.     Yes.

 22  Q.     And did you have a valid license to drive?

 23  A.     Yes.

 24  Q.     Do you have a valid license to drive?

 25  A.     Yes, sir.


 01  Q.     I think we might have heard you didn't have a

 02  license.  That's not correct; right?

 03  A.     No.

 04  Q.     You do have a valid license?

 05  A.     Yeah, I have it in my pocket right now.

 06  Q.     I will confirm that you have a valid license. 

 07  A.     Yes.

 08  Q.     Okay.  So do you get Harley?

 09  A.     Yes we pick up Harley, and we switch vehicles.

 10  Q.     All right.  Because?

 11  A.     Because Corey was distraught about being in the

 12  back seat.  He said I want my own truck, I got to drive,

 13  I want to be driving, I'm sick of being back here, I've

 14  had enough so --

 15  Q.     Other than the call from your mom indicating that

 16  she is closing and that you can come get Harley, had you

 17  gotten other phone calls from the time you, Jerry, and

 18  Corey set out?

 19  A.     Well, we had switched vehicles.  We were making

 20  our way to Springfield.

 21  Q.     Time out.  Before you switched, I'm sorry.  So, up

 22  until this point, have you gotten any other calls?

 23  A.     It was on our way out that I got the call from

 24  Tristan.

 25  Q.     After switching?


 01  A.     Yes.

 02  Q.     So --

 03  A.     I believe.

 04  Q.     So, I'm just, trying to block, break it down into

 05  blocks of time. 

 06  A.     Okay.

 07  Q.     Before you switched, had you gotten a call?

 08  A.     No, sir.

 09  Q.     Any follow-up from Gib?

 10  A.     Nope.

 11  Q.     About any of that? 

 12  A.     I hadn't spoken with Gib at all except for that

 13  more that day.

 14  Q.     So no calls at all related to Gib, or         

 15  Mr. Tamburello or anyone up to this point?

 16  A.     No, sir.

 17  Q.     So you switched vehicles, and you pick up or get

 18  into Corey's vehicle.  What is that?

 19  A.     It's a GMC 2500 HD.

 20  Q.     HD?

 21  A.     Heavy duty.

 22  Q.     Okay.  Pickup truck?

 23  A.     Yes.

 24  Q.     Yes.  Who is driving?

 25  A.     Corey's driving.


 01  Q.     Who is passenger?

 02  A.     I'm the passenger.

 03  Q.     Front seat?

 04  A.     Me.

 05  Q.     And who is in the back seat?

 06  A.     Jerry.

 07  Q.     How's the back seat ride in that vehicle?

 08  A.     It's better, it's much more comfortable.  Harley,

 09  as well.

 10  Q.     Harley's in the vehicle, as well?

 11  A.     Yes, in the back seat.

 12  Q.     So you gone to your apartment in Chester, you've

 13  parked your truck, you've switched to Corey's truck?

 14  A.     That's correct.

 15  Q.     Where are you intending to go?

 16  A.     We were headed back towards Springfield.  I wanted

 17  to go back up in the orchard where I had hung my cameras

 18  to check out some more spots.  Corey's with us this time,

 19  he wanted to do some brook fishing at a brook locally to

 20  our house.  But we were headed in that general direction

 21  back towards Springfield.

 22  Q.     All right.  What did you do with the .22 after you

 23  got back to -- go ahead. 

 24  A.     This for me? 

 25  Q.     Yeah, it is for you. 


 01               After you got back to when you switched

 02  vehicles --

 03  A.     I put it in Corey's truck.

 04  Q.     You transferred the .22 out of your vehicle and

 05  you put it into Corey's truck?

 06  A.     That's correct.

 07  Q.     Why did you do that? 

 08  A.     Because my intentions were to go scouting again.

 09  Q.     All right.  And just may have asked you this

 10  already.  At any point for the rest of that day did you

 11  fire the .22 again?

 12  A.     No.

 13  Q.     Okay.  So you're back in Corey's truck, you're

 14  heading out; what happens?

 15  A.     We get going, we're going, going on the Tribow

 16  Road and got phone call from Tristan, and Tristan is

 17  distraught, scared.  When I say Tristan, I mean Tristan

 18  Blanchard.

 19  Q.     Let me just ask you this:  Who gets a phone call?

 20  A.     I do, on my cell phone.

 21  Q.     Tristan calling you?

 22  A.     I'm pretty sure it was Tristan that called me,

 23  yes.

 24  Q.     What might another option be?

 25  A.     I may have called him.  The best of my knowledge,


 01  I believe he called me.

 02  Q.     How do you know Tristan?

 03  A.     Tristan is, he's a friend of Corey's, also a

 04  friend of mine.  But he graduated with Corey.  And they

 05  are more closer friend than Tristan and myself, so, but I

 06  do, we live in the same town, so I hung out with him from

 07  time to time.  And I know his girl friend, Michelle

 08  Lachapelle.  She graduated a year ahead of me, and that's

 09  how I know them.

 10  Q.     Before this conversation was Tristan, had you

 11  heard anything about Tristan having problems with anyone?

 12  A.     That day? 

 13  Q.     That day?

 14  A.     No.  Not that day

 15  Q.     Okay.  Had you ever heard of Tristan having

 16  problems with Mr. Tamburello?

 17  A.     Only through Gib in that conversation with Gib.

 18  Q.     From the day before?

 19  A.     Yeah, just briefly about what had happened.  I

 20  didn't know much about it.

 21  Q.     Your recollection you get a phone call from

 22  Tristan?

 23  A.     Right.

 24  Q.     And describe that conversation. 

 25  A.     Just Tristan's very distraught, upset, on the


 01  verge of crying.  He may have been crying.  Says I've

 02  never been so scared in my life, myself, my girl friend,

 03  this guy's driving by my house, he's chasing me.  He's so

 04  scared, doesn't know what to do.  Upset, distraught.  I

 05  have never heard him like that before in my life.  And he

 06  said I don't know what to do, Kyle, I don't know what to

 07  do, Kyle, I don't know what to do, I'm so scared.  So

 08  scared.  Just crying.  And man, he must be in trouble,

 09  must be in trouble.  So I said, Corey, better go back and

 10  get him out of the situation.  Corey turned around, we

 11  get him out of situation, he says, he told me he was at

 12  his house, he told me the guy was driving by his house. 

 13  I obviously didn't know who this person was.  You know, I

 14  just had heard a little bit of what had gone on.  It was

 15  very little.  But we went back there.  Corey turned

 16  around, we were heading back towards Tristan.

 17  Q.     Did you go there?

 18  A.     Yes.

 19  Q.     What happened when you got there?

 20  A.     Tristan was standing out front on the cell phone,

 21  he hung up, his cell phone.  He was crying.  He was pale

 22  white and shaking.  He said, he said I've never been so

 23  scared in my life, I don't know what to do, I don't know

 24  what to do, I've never been so scared for me and my girl

 25  friend, I don't know what to do.  Well, Tristan, just get


 01  in, get in the truck, I'll get you out of here.  Because

 02  he said this guy had been driving by his house back and

 03  forth, so I said Tristan get in, come with us.  So his

 04  girl friend, Michelle, and Jordan were there, and he told

 05  them to go inside and lock the doors, and he called Gib

 06  and told Gib to come over, and Gib would be there

 07  momentarily, protect them.  Apparently this guy was after

 08  Tristan.

 09  Q.     Had you heard a name of that guy?

 10  A.     At that point? 

 11  Q.     Yes, by that point?

 12  A.     At that point, he had told me, yes.

 13  Q.     What name did you hear?

 14  A.     Vinny.

 15  Q.     All right.  So now does Tristan get into Corey's

 16  truck?

 17  A.     Yes.

 18  Q.     Corey's driving?

 19  A.     Yes.

 20  Q.     You're in the front passenger seat?

 21  A.     Yes, sir.

 22  Q.     Who is directly behind you?

 23  A.     Jerry Ucci.

 24  Q.     And that would leave Tristan behind Corey?

 25  A.     Yes, sir.


 01  Q.     Okay.  Where do you go?

 02  A.     Tristan immediately grabbed my dog and was

 03  crushing my dog, scared, he was pale white, he was

 04  absolutely petrified, scared out of his mind.  I never

 05  seen him like that in my life.  So we leave there.  I

 06  said Tristan, calm down, calm down, Tristan, you're all

 07  right, you're all right, we're going to get you out of

 08  the situation.  He won't know where you are, we're going

 09  to get you out of here, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. 

 10  At that point when we were making our way back towards --

 11  originally planned to go, back towards Tribow Road, we

 12  took right by Jiffy Mart and through the stone village in

 13  Chester, and Tristan started to explain what had

 14  happened.  And never been to scared for his life, he

 15  never been to scared for his girl friend, never felt like

 16  less of a man in his life, to be able to defend his girl

 17  friend and his own home.  He was petrified, just white. 

 18  I remember it.  So scared, it's, Tristan, just calm down,

 19  calm down.  He locked like he was having an anxiety

 20  attack. 

 21  Q.     You told us how Tristan was feeling. 

 22  A.     Right.

 23  Q.     What did he tell you had happened that was making

 24  him feel that way?

 25  A.     He said that Vinny had came to his house yesterday


 01  and had ripped him off, had walked into his house, he

 02  said he had a crazy look on his face, he looked like he

 03  was drooling.  He wouldn't leave his apartment.  He said

 04  that I never felt so threatened before.  He told him to

 05  leave, he wouldn't leave.  He was scared.  He was like

 06  twice his size.  He said, he said he, he needed

 07  protection, for himself, he said he never been so scared

 08  for him and his girl friend.  He just kept repeating the

 09  same things. 

 10  Q.     Was there an event that, other than that rip-off,

 11  that Tristan discussed?

 12  A.     He told us briefly about the incident from the day

 13  before, just briefly.

 14  Q.     Had he discussed any phone calls or any other

 15  contact that he had had with Vinny or anyone else related

 16  to this?

 17  A.     He had just said that Vinny had been threatening

 18  him and Ben Millay and Gib Bastian, he said that been

 19  threatening him.

 20  Q.     Okay.  We know he didn't say just say it was a

 21  rip-off.  He gave more detail?

 22  A.     He said he ripped him off for forty dollars.

 23  Q.     That's what he told you?

 24  A.     That's what he told my.

 25  Q.     Money?


 01  A.     Yes.

 02  Q.     That's your, that's what Tristan told you?

 03  A.     That's what he told me, yes.

 04  Q.     Okay.  So, what did you do?

 05  A.     So we continue on our route, Springfield, and head

 06  through Chester, toward Gassetts, and make our way into

 07  Gassetts, and take a right at the, used to be a driving

 08  range there, and head towards Springfield, stopped at the

 09  Mobile Mart in North Springfield, and Corey had to use

 10  the restroom, so Corey used the restroom.  And we

 11  continued on some back roads up, up through and around,

 12  and just cruising around.  We went up Cherry Hill in

 13  Springfield.  Corey showed us the job side he had been

 14  working or the show residence where he had been hydro

 15  seeding and landscaping.

 16  Q.     Done what, hydro?

 17  A.     Essentially where you have bare ground, you spray

 18  on seed with water pressure, mulch and seed.  And planted

 19  some trees and done some landscaping.  Showed it to us. 

 20  We were just trying to get Tristan calmed down and make

 21  him feel comfortable and get him calmed down.

 22  Q.     Was there any alcohol to help calm him down?

 23  A.     No, no, sir.

 24  Q.     No.  Is there alcohol in the vehicle?

 25  A.     Yes, sir, yes, just what we had, we had like a


 01  six-pack in there that we had been drinking off of.

 02  Q.     Okay.  So at this point how many beers have you

 03  had for the day?

 04  A.     I had probably two, three beers total that whole

 05  day.

 06  Q.     Okay.  Is there any alcohol other than beer in the

 07  vehicle?

 08  A.     At this point? 

 09  Q.     Yes. 

 10  A.     Not to my knowledge.

 11  Q.     At any point?

 12  A.     Not to my knowledge at that point.

 13  Q.     At any point that day were you in the vehicle that

 14  had alcohol other than beer?

 15  A.     I believe so, yes.  I believe Corey had little bit

 16  of vodka that he had left over from the night before,

 17  that he had grabbed at some point. 

 18  Q.     Was it in the vehicle at this point?

 19  A.     I believe so.  I didn't see him actually grab it

 20  so --

 21  Q.     You're driving around, the four of you, calming

 22  Tristan down?

 23  A.     Yes, sir.

 24  Q.     What's next?

 25  A.     Just cruising the back roads and just trying to


 01  calm Tristan down.  And Jerry gets a phone call or Jerry

 02  makes a phone call. 

 03  Q.     To?

 04  A.     To Kirby Donahue.

 05  Q.     Why does he do that? 

 06  A.     Because Tristan is very upset and distraught, and

 07  he wanted to find out why he's doing this, why Vinny is

 08  doing this to Tristan.

 09  Q.     So why call Kirby?

 10  A.     Because Kirby was with Vinny.  According to

 11  Tristan.

 12  Q.     Okay. 

 13  A.     I was in the front seat at this point with my

 14  brother, and I didn't hear much of the conversation of

 15  what was going on.  So --

 16  Q.     Does Jerry reach Kirby?

 17  A.     He does.

 18  Q.     And describe what you could hear?

 19  A.     Just that Jerry had asked him, I think, why he

 20  was, why he was following Tristan around, why he was

 21  threatening him, why he was doing things he was doing.

 22  Q.     I thought you said he called Kirby?

 23  A.     Kirby handed the phone to Vinny, apparently.

 24  Q.     All right.  Go ahead. 

 25  A.     So he'd asked him, you know, what's going on


 01  there, why, why is he doing these things to Tristan, why

 02  is he harassing people, what's going on here.  And

 03  apparently Vinny got defensive and had asked Jerry to

 04  come to his house.  Jerry said that wasn't a good idea,

 05  obviously, you know, he said it wasn't a good idea.  And

 06  so that phone call got disconnected.  And Vinny is

 07  screaming in the phone, I'm fucking crazy, I'm fucking

 08  crazy.  This and that.  And --

 09  Q.     How does Jerry respond to that? 

 10  A.     Jerry got a little uptight, and I don't recall

 11  exactly what he was saying, because like I said, I was in

 12  the front seat.  But he didn't threaten him in any way,

 13  shape or form.  They got disconnected.  So we continued

 14  on our route throughout where we were going, these back

 15  roads, just trying to calm Tristan down still, and so we

 16  are making our way back around, and we make our way down

 17  to the Texaco station, and Jerry had called family member

 18  of his, Tim Arbuckle --

 19  Q.     Um-hum. 

 20  A.     -- who is related to him.  Jerry's sister is

 21  LeeAnn, said to Tom Arbuckle, whose Tim's brother.  So we

 22  called Tim, said look, this guy just said he wants to

 23  meet up with me, he's crazy, and this and that, and this

 24  is just what Jerry is telling me because I'm obviously

 25  not on the phone.  So, and so Tim suggested that we come


 01  to the ball field, says a lot of people there, safe

 02  place, vinny wouldn't try anything there. 

 03  Q.     You knew this how?

 04  A.     From Jerry.

 05  Q.     Jerry tells you that Tim suggests coming to the

 06  ball field?

 07  A.     Because it's is a safe place, it's people here, he

 08  wouldn't try anything, you can rationalize with him, why

 09  he's doing this to Tristan, why he's, why is he doing the

 10  things he's doing.

 11  Q.     This -- go ahead, I'm sorry. 

 12  A.     Wasn't going to stop harass him, Tristan.  Or

 13  anybody else.

 14  Q.     The was a phone call from Jerry to Tim?

 15  A.     Yes.

 16  Q.     On whose phone?

 17  A.     Tristan's phone.

 18  Q.     On Tristan's phone?

 19  A.     Yes.

 20  Q.     So Jerry borrows Tristan's phone to call Tim?

 21  A.     Yes.

 22  Q.     Okay.  What did Jerry offer Tim for his

 23  assistance?

 24  A.     Didn't offer him anything, to my knowledge.

 25  Q.     What's your best estimate of what time of day it


 01  was where the Jerry/Tim conversation takes place?

 02  A.     May have been about five-fifteen, five-thirty.

 03  Q.     All right.  So what happens after that phone

 04  conversation?

 05  A.     I believe Jerry gets a phone call back from Kirby

 06  and Vinny, and Jerry had already talked to Tim, and Jerry

 07  said if you want to talk at the ball field in Chester,

 08  fifteen minutes.

 09  Q.     All right. 

 10  A.     They were apparently in Chester, and then driving

 11  by Tristan's house and threatening him, and they were

 12  doing what they were doing. 

 13  Q.     Any discussion about what that, what's going to

 14  happen at that meeting?

 15  A.     No, just the planning on finding out what his deal

 16  was, why he was harassing Tristan, what his fixation was

 17  with harassing everybody around.

 18  Q.     How tall are you?

 19  A.     How tall am I?  Six-one.

 20  Q.     How much do you weigh?

 21  A.     One seventy, one seventy-five.

 22  Q.     Tim Arbuckle, ballpark, how tall is he?

 23  A.     He's probably five eleven.

 24  Q.     And weight?

 25  A.     Probably one eighty, one eighty-five. 


 01  Q.     Okay.  Is there any discussion at this point

 02  about, from either side, either that you're aware of from

 03  the Vinny's side or from Jerry's side about bringing

 04  weapons to the ball field?

 05  A.     No, sir.

 06  Q.     So, what happens after that phone conversation?

 07  A.     After that phone conversation we leave the gas

 08  station and head towards Chester, on Chester Road. 

 09  Corey's driving, and we pass a slow moving vehicle,

 10  pretty straight flat road, so we pass the slow moving

 11  vehicle, and in doing that, state cop was turning around

 12  in the turnaround that's right there, and Corey looked in

 13  his rear-view mirror, he saw the woman flash the light on

 14  her car when the state cop passed her, so he thought he

 15  was going to get a passing violation.  It may have been a

 16  non passing zone, or whatever.  He takes a right onto

 17  Green Mountain Turnpike Road headed away from the ball

 18  field at that point. 

 19  Q.     You're on what road?

 20  A.     Green Mountain Turnpike.

 21  Q.     You turn on Green Mountain?

 22  A.     Yes.

 23  Q.     From which road?

 24  A.     Springfield Chester Road.

 25  Q.     Okay, go ahead, what happens?


 01  A.     So then we turn on the Green Mountain Turnpike,

 02  now we're headed away from the ball field.  And like I

 03  told you before, Jerry had said fifteen minutes to meet,

 04  we'll meet and talk then.  So now we're headed onto Green

 05  Mountain Turnpike, which is a small dirt road in Chester. 

 06  We turn right onto Crow Hill Road.  So now we're headed

 07  in the total opposite direction from the ball field at

 08  this point.  No longer concerned with getting to the ball

 09  field. 

 10  Q.     Say what?

 11  A.     We're no longer concerned with getting to the ball

 12  field at that point.

 13  Q.     Okay. 

 14  A.     So making our way up Crow Hill Road, and we're

 15  driving down the road, and, you know, Tristan apparently

 16  had a bag of weed on him.  So I didn't know until he

 17  pulled it out, he says got a bag of weed on me.  Corey

 18  said, well, Can't drive my truck, then, if you got that

 19  on you, because he had no knowledge of it, either.  But,

 20  so Tristan started driving Corey's truck.

 21  Q.     What's the logic of switching drivers here?

 22  A.     Because Corey didn't want the liability of having

 23  the bag of weed that Tristan had in his truck.

 24  Q.     This is marijuana we're talking about?

 25  A.     Yeah, and I had no knowledge of him having it,


 01  either.  Till he pulled it out.  So, so we're driving

 02  down this road, and we end up going towards Gib's house,

 03  who lives out this way, and since this time, it's been

 04  probably half hour, forty minutes since this is all

 05  happened, and we go to Gib's house, we think maybe Gib

 06  might be there, and we get there and Tristan calls Gib to

 07  see where Gib is at because Gib's with his girl friend

 08  and Jordan, and so he, he doesn't talk to Gib, I guess he

 09  can't get ahold of him, so we stop there for a minute,

 10  deciding what do, you know, we're no longer concerned

 11  getting to the ball field at that point.  Corey's truck's

 12  almost out of gas.  And makes a decision to head back to

 13  pick up my truck.  His truck is almost out of gas.

 14  Q.     You go back to your apartment to get your truck?

 15  A.     That's correct.

 16  Q.     Do you do that?

 17  A.     Yes, sir.

 18  Q.     What happens when you get to your apartment?

 19  A.     We switch vehicles because Corey's vehicle was

 20  pretty much out of gas.

 21  Q.     All right.  You had had a .22?

 22  A.     Yes.

 23  Q.     What was with that?

 24  A.     I put the .22 back in my vehicle where I always

 25  have it.  I always keep it right in my truck.  And I put


 01  my dog in the back seat of my truck.  And I get in the

 02  passenger side of my truck, and Jerry gets in the back

 03  seat.  Corey goes inside.  Earlier in the day Tristan had

 04  said he wanted protection, he said he talked to his step-

 05  dad about getting a pistol just in case that guy came

 06  back to his house, he didn't feel comfortable sleeping at

 07  Night, he didn't know when he was coming back, he

 08  obviously broken into his house, and so Corey had offered

 09  him earlier in the day protection for the night, he said

 10  you can borrow my rifle For the night.  Tristan

 11  acknowledged the fact that, you know, okay.  So Corey

 12  came out, and he brought the rifle and showed Tristan. 

 13  Tristan acknowledges the fact that it was, it was for

 14  him, it was the 30-06.

 15  Q.     Whose gun is it? 

 16  A.     That's Corey's gun.

 17  Q.     Okay.  What happened at that point? 

 18  A.     So I told Tristan about the functionability of

 19  rifle.  I'm very familiar with firearms.  I'm a hunter, a

 20  passionate hunter, it's one of my favorite pastimes in

 21  life, and I'm very familiar with firearms.  So I for

 22  safety of Tristan, you know, I do the right thing, I take

 23  hunter education, passed a hundred percent, you know, I

 24  show him the functionability of the rifle and put the

 25  clip in the glove box and put the rifle in the back seat


 01  pointed down just like a .22.

 02  Q.     Did you actually put the clip into the rifle as

 03  part of teaching Tristan?

 04  A.     Yes.  I took it back out. 

 05  Q.     Did you hand him the rifle at any point?

 06  A.     I didn't at that point, no.

 07  Q.     So the rifle ends up next to the .22?

 08  A.     Yes.

 09  Q.     And the clip is in the glove box?

 10  A.     That's correct.

 11  Q.     And this is a functioning rifle?

 12  A.     Yes. 

 13  Q.     In good shape. 

 14  A.     Yes. 

 15  Q.     No, no major defects?

 16  A.     No.

 17  Q.     Okay. 

 18  A.     I only fire the rifle a few times in my life. 

 19  It's my brother's rifle, so I, you know.

 20  Q.     He owns it?

 21  A.     Yeah.

 22  Q.     He maintains it?  

 23  A.     It's his deal.  He knows it, got it for Tristan's

 24  protection, Tristan acknowledged the fact that he wanted

 25  it.  He got it for him.  Strictly.  I put my rifle back


 01  in my truck where I always keep it.

 02  Q.     So now there are two rifles in your truck?

 03  A.     That's correct.

 04  Q.     The .22, that you and only you had fired earlier

 05  that day?

 06  A.     Right.

 07  Q.     And Corey's 30-06 that he had gone into the

 08  apartment to get and the clip for the 30-06 is in the

 09  glove box?

 10  A.     That's correct.

 11  Q.     All right.  So --

 12  A.     Both all right unloaded.

 13  Q.     Who is, who is in what position?

 14  A.     Corey's driving truck, I'm in the passenger seat,

 15  Tristan, Jerry in the back seat, Tristan's still holding

 16  my dog. 

 17  Q.     Corey, I'm sorry, Corey's driving, you're in the

 18  passenger, Tristan and Corey are in the back seat?

 19  A.     That's correct.

 20  Q.     You're new truck?

 21  A.     My new truck, yeah.

 22  Q.     You like a lot?

 23  A.     Yeah.

 24  Q.     You're the passenger?

 25  A.     Yep.


 01  Q.     Why is that?

 02  A.     I felt like being the passenger.  I was the

 03  passenger all day, you know, I been driving all day.  I

 04  let Corey drive my truck.

 05  Q.     What happens next?

 06  A.     We head down Church Street from my apartment, and

 07  Tristan had said we're going to head back to Tristan's

 08  house.  At that point we had been about an hour

 09  forty-five minutes since, you know, phone conversation

 10  with Jerry and Vinny and Kirby.  So really had passed our

 11  minds that, as to the rush to get to the ball field to

 12  talk with this guy.  I really didn't have involvement

 13  with him at this point.  And I really wasn't in hurry to

 14  get there myself.  So, we got, went through Church

 15  Street, and Tristan lives right, you take a left off of

 16  Church Street, there's a green in Chester, I don't know

 17  if you guys are familiar with the glean.  Tristan lives

 18  right there.  And so Corey says, Tristan says he's got

 19  some Bud Lite there, Bud Lite.  Corey says I don't like

 20  Bud Lite, I like Budweiser.  That's what I drink, too, I

 21  drink Budweiser.  Corey decides he wants a six-pack of

 22  Budweiser.  So all right.  We go to Jiffy Mart first. 

 23  And Corey goes in, gets a six-pack, an our intentions

 24  were to go back to Tristan's house, drop off 30-06, and

 25  probably have a few beers.  We'd forgotten the whole


 01  situation at this point.  We weren't, we weren't in a

 02  hurry to get there.  We actually forgotten about it. 

 03  Whole thing.  You know, we went on a detour, forgotten

 04  about all that.  So I got a phone call from Mike Gleason

 05  while I'm sitting in the parking lot at Jiffy Mart saying

 06  Vinny was just at his house, he was pulled up outside of

 07  his house, he was planting the hostas that I'd given him,

 08  he said he was shaking with the shovel in his hands. 

 09  He's a big guy, you guys saw Mike.

 10  Q.     Did you, Mike told you he was shaking?

 11  A.     He said he was scared, he said he was scared,

 12  Vinny was just at his house, he said he was screaming out

 13  looking for Gib telling him he's going to kill Gib, he

 14  was going to kill his whole family, he said, he said.  So

 15  Mike said nothing to do with me.  Vinny's screaming I'm

 16  from Boston, I'm fucking crazy, I'm fucking crazy, just

 17  yelling that.  That's what Mike is telling me.  And

 18  Tristan was worried about his girl friend that was there,

 19  and Jordan was there, and --

 20  Q.     Who is Jordan?

 21  A.     Jordan was the girl that was hanging out with Gib

 22  that day. 

 23  Q.     What's her relationship with Jordan?

 24  A.     Just a friend of mine.

 25  Q.     Jordan your girl friend?


 01  A.     No, sir.

 02  Q.     Go ahead. 

 03  A.     So Mike's scared, he doesn't know what to do, so I

 04  said we decided we're going to go from that point, we

 05  decided we are going to go down to Mike's house.  So we

 06  went to Mike's house.  Mike was standing out front with

 07  Adrianne.  Mike was standing with a shovel.  He waved us

 08  by.  We were going to pull into Mike's house.  He waved

 09  us by.  And Adrianne was waving us in, and Gib's car was

 10  parked there.  So Vinny just been there looking for Gib

 11  screaming he was going to kill Gib and his family,

 12  everybody else, so, excuse me, after Mike's house the

 13  ball field is the next left.  So as it turns out, we

 14  actually ended up at the ball field.  We take that left

 15  and go down there.  We get down there, and, you know,

 16  Vinny and those guys aren't there.  And we get out, at

 17  the ball field.

 18  Q.     Where do you park?

 19  A.     We parked up by the tent, where there was a series

 20  of cars parked there.  There was probably ten cars parked

 21  there.

 22  Q.     Who is driving?

 23  A.     Corey's driving.

 24  Q.     Is there a parallel parking, or do people park

 25  wherever?


 01  A.     Well, it was kind of, there was a lot of vehicles

 02  parked in a small area.  We pulled up kind of diagonal to

 03  the tent.  There was some parallel parked vehicles, and

 04  there was vehicles pretty much everywhere, you know, they

 05  were all staggered around the tent. 

 06  Q.     What do you do after arriving?

 07  A.     We get out of the truck, and obviously Jerry had

 08  talked to Tim earlier in the day, and so Jerry talked to

 09  Tim, and Corey was mingling with a couple people, just

 10  hanging out.  And I was hanging out, too, just, you know,

 11  hanging out there for a minute trying to, you know,

 12  figure out what was going on.  And we were hanging out

 13  there.  Had a beer there.  And they pulled in up top.  I

 14  say they, I mean Vinny and, Vinny and Kirby and --

 15  Q.     Julie?

 16  A.     Julie.

 17  Q.     Okay.  At some some point does Gib arrive?

 18  A.     Yes, I forgot that part.  I'm sorry.

 19  Q.     So tell us --

 20  A.     So Gib, Gib pulls up beside me, parks beside me,

 21  my -- it's hard, you have a diagram?  Diagram shows where

 22  he's parked?  He parks Diagonally beside me.  This is

 23  Gib's car, this is my truck.  He parked diagonally to me.

 24  Q.     Why don't you just move aside.  I'm going for a

 25  second, please, just make sure that this isn't going to


 01  -- all right.  So using pretty good size rectangles,

 02  maybe, maybe not quite as large as a shoe box, but not

 03  much bigger, why don't you put your vehicles -- we're

 04  going to put a triangle on top of it, so make rectangle

 05  with triangle pointing in the direction that your vehicle

 06  is pointing; all right. 

 07               And then Gib's. 

 08               Draw it, then I'll ask you to explain. 

 09  This way I get you to make the drawing, not me, and watch

 10  your -- don't ink yourself -- don't explain, just draw

 11  it, then we'll have -- and it's been said -- make sure

 12  the ink doesn't go through the paper. 

 13  A.     Okay, this is the tent here. 

 14  Q.     All right.  Why don't you have a seat?

 15  A.     Okay.

 16  Q.     Now --

 17  A.     This is my truck.

 18  Q.     Can I tease you a little bit?  I said just a

 19  little smaller than a shoe box, so you got some small

 20  feet here. 

 21  A.     Sorry about that.

 22  Q.     All right, all right.  So down in the lower left,

 23  you've drawn item, you've written in tent, closer to me,

 24  slightly larger, you've drawn a rectangle with a triangle

 25  pointed towards the tent?


 01  A.     That's correct.

 02  Q.     What vehicle is that?

 03  A.     That's my Ford.

 04  Q.     Okay.  And then to the left as you're looking at

 05  this page is a smaller rectangle; what is that?

 06  A.     That would be Gib's Honda Accord sedan.

 07  Q.     Between your truck and Gib's Honda, is there any

 08  other vehicle?

 09  A.     No, sir.

 10  Q.     How confident are you of that?

 11  A.     Very confident.

 12  Q.     Okay. 

 13  A.     I will tell you that series of vehicles that are

 14  marked around here --

 15  Q.     Is what?

 16  A.     Series.

 17  Q.     Lot of vehicles? 

 18  A.     A lot of vehicles.

 19  Q.     Is there a bathroom place, bathroom building?

 20  A.     About over --

 21  Q.     Here you go. 

 22  A.     Want me to draw the best of my ability or step by

 23  step? 

 24  Q.     Go ahead, take a moment and draw it as you

 25  remember it, then I'll, don't explain it, we'll have you


 01  explain it after you're done. 

 02  A.     All right.  Like I said, these vehicles here, this

 03  is a series of them, there was probably at least six or

 04  eight. 

 05  Q.     Mr. Bolaski, I think finish, then we'll talk about

 06  it. 

 07  A.     All right, all right. 

 08  Q.     All right.  My suggestion, we're probably pretty

 09  close?

 10  A.     Yeah.

 11  Q.     Can you identify the types of trees you've planted

 12  there. 

 13               Have a seat. 

 14  A.     I think they are maples.

 15  Q.     I downloaded this landscaping thing, this is about

 16  as good as that. 

 17               All right, let's walk through this. 

 18  A.     Usually my design concepts are a lot better than

 19  that drawing.

 20  Q.     This is good.  Upper right-hand corner, antique

 21  barn?

 22  A.     That's correct.

 23  Q.     This is the roadway coming in?

 24  A.     Sort of a parking lot there, as well.

 25  Q.     What is this little rectangular shape there, as


 01  well?

 02  A.     That would be Julie's car.

 03  Q.     Okay.  Do you know Julie last name?

 04  A.     Kronberg.

 05  Q.     Okay.  So I'm going to write --

 06  A.     Sorry, drawing isn't the best.  I don't usually

 07  draw on the wall.

 08  Q.     Yeah, I hope we didn't actually -- the good news

 09  is, Mr. Bolaski --

 10               JUROR:  Only a little.

 11  BY MR. SAND: 

 12  Q.     I get to blame you for it.                  

 13               Okay, so --

 14  A.     Little touch up. 

 15  Q.     JK.  We see bathhouse.  What's the rectangular

 16  building closer to me from bathhouse?

 17  A.     I remember there being, this is the first time

 18  ever been to the ball field ever in my life, so this is

 19  what I remember in that night.  I think there was like a

 20  podium or some sort of a, a couple buildings.

 21  Q.     Gazebo or bandstand or something?

 22  A.     Yeah.

 23  Q.     All right.  Now, you identified this vehicle as

 24  your vehicle?

 25  A.     Yes, sir.


 01  Q.     So I'm going to put a one from your vehicle, and

 02  to page left that's whose vehicle?

 03  A.     Gib's car.

 04  Q.     All right.  And then some other vehicles that you

 05  remember being there?

 06  A.     Yeah, there was a green Jeep, a Toyota SUV. 

 07  Q.     This one is a Jeep?

 08  A.     Yeah, I believe. 

 09  Q.     I've written Jeep.  There is a Toyota?

 10  A.     Yep, SUV. 

 11  Q.     All right. 

 12  A.     Some sort.  There's a green Chevy pickup truck

 13  somewhere, I think this may be this one.

 14  Q.     Okay. 

 15  A.     There's also a. --

 16  Q.     I've written pickup. 

 17  A.     -- Tim Arbuckle's car, which was Volkswagen.

 18  Q.     VW.  What kind? 

 19  A.     Green Volkswagen or soft --

 20  Q.     Is there, there's a tent, a tent. 

 21  A.     There's also RV over here on this side.

 22  Q.     You marked that RV?

 23  A.     Yes.  There was vehicles everywhere over there.

 24  Q.     So you guys pull up?

 25  A.     Yes.


 01  Q.     And park?

 02  A.     Yes, sir.

 03  Q.     Who is driving?

 04  A.     My brother.

 05  Q.     All right.  And how long after you arrive does Gib

 06  arrive?

 07  A.     I think he arrived right behind us.  We, he had

 08  seen us going by Mike's house.  He followed us in.

 09  Q.     So were you all essentially getting out at the

 10  same time?

 11  A.     He got out after.  He's a bigger guy, takes a

 12  little bit longer to get out but --

 13  Q.     Who's in Gib's car?

 14  A.     I believe Jordan.

 15  Q.     Anyone else?

 16  A.     I'm not sure if Michelle with him or not.

 17  Q.     So what do you do when you get out of your car?

 18  A.     Just had a beer.  Just --

 19  Q.     Okay.  Talking to folks?

 20  A.     Yeah, my last beer, that third beer.

 21  Q.     Okay. 

 22  A.     Like I said, we had a six-pack between me and

 23  Jerry.

 24  Q.     Is your testimony today that for the entire day of

 25  Sunday, August 17, all you consumed were three beers?


 01  A.     Yes, sir.

 02  Q.     Both, both including anything before and after the

 03  incident?

 04  A.     Yes, sir.

 05  Q.     Three beers?

 06  A.     Yes, sir.

 07  Q.     Okay. 

 08               Mr. Foreman, we're familiar enough with

 09  events, we're going to moving into a more difficult

 10  subject area, and it's ten-fifteen.  I don't know if this

 11  works or not works, but it might. 

 12               Would that work all right for the court

 13  reporter?  The record shall reflect she's nodding. 

 14               How much time, fifteen minutes all right? 

 15               MR. KELLEY:  Very well.

 16               MR. SAND:  We're going to break.  It's not

 17  clear to me what your allowance is for moving around. 

 18  But maybe you're told to stay here?  Okay.  Okay.  So

 19  we'll, we're going to, we're going to break. 

 20               You may leave, but I think you know some

 21  of the limitations about what you should or should not be

 22  talking.  I can step out with you. 

 23               THE WITNESS:  Okay.

 24               MR. SAND:  We're going to resume at

 25  ten-thirty.


 01               THE WITNESS:  Yep.

 02               (Recess, 10:14 - 10:32 a.m.). 

 03               MR. KELLEY:  Mr. Sand, the grand jury is

 04  seated.

 05  BY MR. SAND: 

 06  Q.     Mr. Bolaski, if you head back.  Okay.  And let me

 07  remind you that you're still under oath. 

 08  A.     Okay.

 09  Q.     So, when we broke, you had indicated that you had

 10  arrived at the ball field, and that Gib had arrived

 11  shortly thereafter, and then I think you had started to

 12  tell us that a vehicle driven by Julie Kronberg arrived?

 13  A.     That's correct.

 14  Q.     Do you know Julie?

 15  A.     I don't know her personally, but I know her name. 

 16  We're from the same town so --

 17               JUROR:  Excuse me, I was wondering if you

 18  can move on over a little bit.  I can't see.

 19               THE WITNESS:  Sure, anything.  Is this

 20  good? 

 21               JUROR:  Thank you. 

 22               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 23               JUROR:  Wondering if you could move a

 24  little to the left.

 25               THE WITNESS:  My left or your right? 


 01  Left?  All right, we good now? 

 02               Do my best. 

 03  BY MR. SAND: 

 04  Q.     Did you recognize the vehicle that you identified

 05  as the Kronberg vehicle?

 06  A.     No, I didn't, I didn't know what she had driven.

 07  Q.     How did you know that was her car?

 08  A.     Well, they pulled in up top, and Vinny had gotten

 09  out, and he had a Tazer in his hand.

 10  Q.     How do you know it was Julie Kronberg's car?

 11  A.     I didn't at the time until he got out and

 12  apparently --

 13  Q.     With him getting out, how did you know it was

 14  Julie Kronberg's car?

 15  A.     I didn't.  I just assumed.  It was them.  I had, I

 16  didn't know what she drove.  I didn't know, I don't know

 17  much of her. 

 18  Q.     How do you -- do you know that Julie and Vinny had

 19  any connection with each other?

 20  A.     Because of my brief knowledge of what had happened

 21  on Summer Street there.

 22  Q.     From whom?

 23  A.     From Gib.

 24  Q.     So how do you know that Julie and Vinny had any

 25  connection to each other?


 01  A.     Just from what I heard briefly about the whole

 02  deal.

 03  Q.     What was that?

 04  A.     That Kirby and Julie and Vinny were in the same

 05  vehicle.

 06  Q.     What happens after the Kronberg vehicle shows up?

 07  A.     I guess Vinny, my, I guess -- is this Vinny guy? 

 08  Q.     Mean back at the ball field now?

 09  A.     Yeah.

 10  Q.     Okay, go ahead. 

 11  A.     He gets out of the vehicle.  We're all down --

 12  wish I could have two people here -- we're all standing

 13  down by the vehicle, by the tent, doing whatever, and we

 14  saw them get out, and he had Tazer, was zapping a Tazer.

 15  Q.     How do you know it was a Tazer?

 16  A.     You could see it, hear it, zapping, blue,

 17  zz,zz,zz, could hear it all the way down from the bottom. 

 18  He's saying I'm Vinny, I'm from Boston, I'm fucking

 19  crazy.  Just yelling at us, yelling at us. 

 20  Q.     What else is he yelling, if anything? 

 21  A.     Yelling come up here, come up here, come up here.

 22  Q.     Are you trying to do his accent. 

 23  A.     I tried to, but I'm from Vermont so --

 24  Q.     All right.  How loud is this?

 25  A.     He's yelling at me, I was probably, I don't know,


 01  hundred yards or less, so, he's yelling down.

 02  Q.     I'm going to use my lazer pointer. 

 03  A.     Okay.

 04  Q.     Where are you?

 05  A.     I'm approximately in between vehicle number one

 06  and the Volkswagen.

 07  Q.     Is that here?

 08  A.     Yep.

 09  Q.     This this area?

 10  A.     That's correct.

 11  Q.     And this person you're calling Vinny is up here?

 12  A.     Right.

 13  Q.     And you're calling that roughly a hundred yards?

 14  A.     Roughly, yes.

 15  Q.     Okay.  Had you seen this person you're calling

 16  Vinny before?

 17  A.     No, I never seen him before in my life.  I

 18  couldn't point him out to you still to this day.

 19  Q.     Okay.  Did he mention anyone by name?

 20  A.     Tristan and Gib, he was, he said he was going to

 21  kill Tristan and Gib.

 22  Q.     Do you remember specifically what he said?

 23  A.     You want it, Tristan?  He wanted Tristan and Gib.

 24  Q.     Okay.  Is that what he said?

 25  A.     I remember him yelling about Tristan and Gib. 


 01  That's the best of my recollection.

 02  Q.     All right.  So what happened next?

 03  A.     So then Tim, Jerry, Corey, and I and a couple

 04  girls had walked up closer to him.  See, he asked us to

 05  come up here, come up here, you know.  We were going to

 06  go talk to him, see what his problem was, see if we could

 07  rationalize what was going on here.

 08  Q.     Anyone in your group saying anything?

 09  A.     Just Tim, he said, he said put that Tazer down,

 10  I'm going to shove it up your ass.  That's all that was

 11  said.

 12  Q.     Okay.  Mr. Bolaski, you just used the term

 13  rationalize?

 14  A.     Right.

 15  Q.     So we got a group of guys, you, your brother, Tim,

 16  good-sized guys?

 17  A.     Right.

 18  Q.     You got someone like Vinny, I mean you got Vinny,

 19  also good-sized?

 20  A.     Right.

 21  Q.     What was your plan as you're walking up the

 22  little --

 23  A.     To find out why he had been harassing Tristan, to

 24  find out what his deal was, to find out what, why he was

 25  doing what he was doing.  We certainly did not expect


 01  what had happened next to happen.

 02  Q.     So you're a group, you are walking up towards the

 03  vehicle?

 04  A.     Right.

 05  Q.     What was next?

 06  A.     So we stop about halfway, you know, by those trees

 07  where the roads split there.

 08  Q.     In this area?

 09  A.     Yeah, I would say thirty yards, maybe, forty

 10  yards, thirty.  Thirty, probably, thirty yards away.  And

 11  he's just, he's yelling at us, can't recall exactly what

 12  he's yelling towards us, but just seemed like he was

 13  messed up, like he was on something, you know.  At this

 14  point he stopped and handed the Tazer off to his girl

 15  friend, apparently, Julie, who was sitting in the

 16  driver's seat.  She's zapping it.  So we're like keeping

 17  our distance from them.  And keep seeing him go like this

 18  toward the back seat of the car.  The back door was open. 

 19  So didn't know what was happening then.  So he reaches

 20  into the back seat of the car, grabs an axe, starts

 21  running at us, sprinting at us.  At that point we take

 22  off, sprinting, I'm running, we're running away.  This

 23  guy's coming at full speed with an axe cocked, screaming

 24  I'm going to fucking kill Gib and Tristan, I'm going to

 25  fucking kill you, this and that, out of his mind, just


 01  crazy.  So I was scared, scared for my life.  I have

 02  never had anybody pull an axe on me before in my life. 

 03  I'm assuming none of you guys have, either.  You know,

 04  what is going to happen in that situation?  Obviously

 05  it's potentially a threat to your life and others around

 06  you.  So we're running away from him.  I'm running as

 07  fast as I can.  He's pretty fast.  He's catching up to

 08  us.  And so we're all running towards the direction of

 09  the tent, this way.  My truck is parked there. 

 10  Q.     Mr. Bolaski, why don't you tell us and then --

 11  A.     Okay.

 12  Q.     -- it's hard when you look back to there. 

 13  A.     Yeah.

 14  Q.     We sort of lost contact.  So tell us, then we'll

 15  use the diagram if we need to. 

 16  A.     I'm sorry.

 17  Q.     That's okay. 

 18  A.     We're running away from him, obviously everyone is

 19  kind of scattering, and me thinking I'm running towards

 20  protection of my truck.  Corey had locked my truck, he

 21  had the keys to my truck, had locked my truck when we got

 22  there.  And my dog was Inside, and everything else I

 23  owned was inside my truck.  My truck was locked.  He

 24  locked it, and through all the turmoil I didn't think

 25  that the truck was locked.  So I went to get into my


 01  truck, possibly in getting away from him and maybe get

 02  out of there because this guy's got an axe, an axe

 03  Swinging and screaming he's going to kill people.  This

 04  isn't good, you know, so I go to get into it.  I slipped

 05  and fall on the ground, and I can feel his feet pounding

 06  behind me.  I feel coming on to me.  I can feel it coming

 07  at me.  At that moment I thought, all's I could think, my

 08  head's going to get pinned against the side of this truck

 09  with the axe.  Starts hitting the side of the truck,

 10  narrowly missing my head.  I'm, right in front of my head

 11  he starts hitting the side of my truck.  Whoa, slow down,

 12  he's sticking the axe into the side of my truck.  All I

 13  can think of, my head's going to get pinned to the side

 14  of my truck.  I have got to get up, I got to get out of

 15  there.  So I get myself off the ground.  He's sill

 16  hitting the side of my truck.  And I roll around the

 17  front of my truck.  He’s still smashing away.  My dog

 18  inside, who is like my son to me.  He's smashing my truck

 19  knocking the windows out.  My dog's flipping out.  He's

 20  screaming, I am going to fucking kill you, just out of

 21  his mind.  I can't explain to you.  I never seen, seen a

 22  guy that out of his mind.  I never seen anything like it

 23  in Vermont.  You don't expect something like this to

 24  happen, things don't happen like this.  The axe is just

 25  narrowly missing me.  It's hitting the side of my truck


 01  so loud, I'm so shooken up, I thought I was done right

 02  there, I literally thought I was done, it was a matter of

 03  survival at this point.  I thought one strike with that

 04  thing, I'm done.  So I went around the front of my truck,

 05  I told Corey unlock the truck, unlock the truck.  At that

 06  point I couldn't get away.  He was that close to me.  So

 07  I rolled to the passenger side of my truck, grabbed the

 08  30-06, grabbed the clip out of glove box, put it in, and

 09  by the time I came around the back side of the truck, I'd

 10  seen him coming at me.  I screamed at him, I said drop

 11  that fucking axe now, don't come any closer, don't come

 12  any closer.  He had this crazy look on his face.  He was

 13  just, hey, just like drooping and his tongue and his face

 14  was just like, hey, hey, hey, hey, just like that.  This

 15  guy is messed up on something, you know, I never seen

 16  anything like it.  He's a monster.  I said drop the axe,

 17  don't come any closer, don't come any closer.  And he

 18  kept coming at me, kept coming at me.  I put one in the

 19  chamber, I shouldered it, I said don't come any closer. 

 20  He kept coming, he kept coming, almost to the point

 21  where he could get a swing at me.  He's got an axe

 22  probably this long, one swing could knock, hit me in the

 23  head, could hit me in the back, I'd been all done, with

 24  one strike of that axe.  And just stopping him from

 25  coming any closer to me, at this point I feel threatened


 01  for my life with that weapon he has.  And me trying to

 02  disable him from coming any closer to me, I, I fire shot,

 03  shoot his leg.  At that point when I saw my shot, I

 04  didn't know if I had hit him or not because he was still

 05  moving so well that he was still moving in, aggressing, I

 06  didn't even think that I hit him, I didn't know if I hit

 07  him.  So at this point I try to put distance between me

 08  and him, and he was still, he was still holding the axe,

 09  he was ducking around, he was ducking around, trying to

 10  get, trying to get at me.  So I rolled around, rolled

 11  around my truck toward the back.  He rolled around the

 12  other way, he was coming back around, and at this point

 13  I'd seen Corey out of corner of my eye, I knew where

 14  Corey was, Corey had run around the back side of

 15  vehicles, and he came around, and when I went around one

 16  side, I hadn't seen him get into my truck, but I knew

 17  Corey was around there, I saw him out of the corner of my

 18  eye, and I saw Vinny coming towards Corey, and I never

 19  heard the shots that Corey fired from, probably from the

 20  ringing of the shot of the -06, but he was still moving,

 21  still aggressing, coming forward both of us at this

 22  point, because I had come back around, and I saw Corey

 23  out of the corner of my eye, I saw him closing in on

 24  Corey, never heard the shot that Corey fired, and at that

 25  point when I saw him aggressing towards Corey, fired


 01  again.  Both times I shot were low.  I never was aiming

 02  above the waist.  I was just simply trying to disable

 03  him, put him down, because he was never giving up, he was

 04  not accepting no for answer, he was never going to give

 05  up.  He was not.  I was scared for myself, and I was

 06  scared for my brother.  I was not going to let my brother

 07  die.  Not going to let myself die.  One swing with that

 08  weapon, it's fifteen pound splitting maul, for me to let

 09  my brother get hurt, for myself, or my own safety, I

 10  would have never left my brother there, I would have

 11  never left him, I would have never ran away.  He was

 12  coming at both of us, and all I had to do at this point

 13  was try to put him down, to disable him.  I wasn't aiming

 14  for his chest, wasn't aiming for his head.  I was not

 15  trying to kill him.  I was simply trying to stop a mad

 16  man that was wielding an axe and coming at me.  That's

 17  it.  And he, he went down after the, the second shot. 

 18  But I wasn't sure where I had hit him.  I knew I hit him

 19  low.

 20  Q.     So what did you do then?

 21  A.     So after that, after that, I wanted to make sure

 22  that he was done.  And I saw him moving on the ground.  I

 23  went up to him, and I was still scared, so shooken up at

 24  this point, I just been faced with a life-threatening

 25  experience that this guy had imposed on me, and he's


 01  moving around, so, well, after the first shot and the

 02  second shot, which I aimed low, too, I wasn't quite sure

 03  where I hit him, I went up to him, and I had kicked him a

 04  a couple times to make sure he was going to stay down,

 05  because I was so scared and threatened for my life that

 06  at that point I wanted to make sure he wasn't going to

 07  get back up.  He still had the axe in his hand, and he

 08  was, he was, he threatened me that badly that I felt that

 09  I did not want him to get back up.  If he got back up

 10  then, you know, I would have had to keep him down because

 11  he was, he was not giving up.  Apparently was on some,

 12  some type of drugs that he was just so hyped up that he

 13  would not, he would not take no for answer.  It's like

 14  he had a wish to, you know, come at me, and he wasn't

 15  giving up.  And I had never met the guy before in my

 16  life. 

 17  Q.     You still had the 30-06?

 18  A.     I did.

 19  Q.     In your hand?

 20  A.     I did.

 21  Q.     You didn't just kick him; right?

 22  A.     I just kicked him two or three times.  I went and

 23  put the gun back in my truck.

 24  Q.     But you used the butt of the rifle to hit him?

 25  A.     To my recollection, I never used the blunt end of


 01  the gun to hit him at all. 

 02  Q.     Where's Corey at this point?

 03  A.     Corey at this point had backpedaled away from,

 04  away from the vehicles and put the .22 in the pickup, the

 05  green pickup, apparently.  I found this out after the

 06  fact.  Like I said, I never saw Corey with the rifle, but

 07  I knew Corey was, I can see him, I know my brother, the

 08  corner of my eye I can see my brother there.  I know, he

 09  was coming at him and he was coming at me, and I fired my

 10  second shot.  That's all I had to do, at that point.  And

 11  Corey had ran the other way. 

 12  Q.     So, what is the order of people you, Vinny, and

 13  Corey when you fired a second shot?

 14  A.     What is the order? 

 15  Q.     Yeah, how are you lined up?

 16  A.     I was coming around the driver's side of my truck,

 17  and Corey had the rifle, and he was backpedaling away

 18  from Vinny, who was coming at him, intention of drawing

 19  him, but I never took my focus off of Vinny, didn't want

 20  him to get a point where I didn't know where he was.  He

 21  wasn't acting like he was hit at that point.  All I saw

 22  he's coming after my brother, he's coming after my

 23  brother.  I'm not going to let anything happen to him. 

 24  I'd do anything for that kid.  He's my brother.  I'd

 25  grown up with him all my life.  We've been so close all


 01  my life.  I would take a bullet for him if I had a

 02  choice.  I would take a bullet for him.  So, when I saw

 03  him coming towards Corey, and then when I came around the

 04  side of the truck, he saw me, that's when I fired the

 05  second shot.

 06  Q.     So it's you, then Vinny, and then Corey?

 07  A.     Corey was coming at Vinny.  I mean Vinny was

 08  coming at Corey, and then I came around and saw that, and

 09  then I fired the second shot.

 10  Q.     So Vinny is in between where you and Corey are?

 11  A.     Right.  But triangle, he was between the vehicles,

 12  obviously, to where he, he ended up towards the back of

 13  the vehicles.

 14  Q.     Okay. 

 15  A.     Fell backward with the axe.

 16  Q.     Let's go through it again. 

 17  A.     Okay.

 18  Q.     Where does Vinny go down?

 19  A.     Between my truck and Gib's car.

 20  Q.     So in this area?

 21  A.     That's correct.  But when he was approaching

 22  Corey, he was in this area here, and Corey was

 23  backpedaling this way, and I was coming around here.  I

 24  saw Corey out of my peripheral vision, but I had my eyes

 25  focused on Vinny. 


 01  Q.     All right.  Let me back up. 

 02  A.     Okay.

 03  Q.     He's coming down towards you with the axe?

 04  A.     Yes.

 05  Q.     Which door do you go to, of your vehicle, where do

 06  you go? 

 07  A.     We talking before, after or before the first shot? 

 08  Q.     No, I backed up now.  Vinny's arrived, you guys

 09  have headed up the hill. 

 10  A.     Yes.

 11  Q.     And you see the axe?

 12  A.     Right.

 13  Q.     He's coming down the hill?

 14  A.     Right.

 15  Q.     You start running?

 16  A.     Right.

 17  Q.     Where do you run to?

 18  A.     I run to the driver's side of my truck.

 19  Q.     Okay. 

 20  A.     Try to get to the safety of my truck.

 21  Q.     Do you get the driver's side door open?

 22  A.     No, it was locked at that point.

 23  Q.     And at any point do you get in to the driver's

 24  side of your vehicle?

 25  A.     No, I don't.


 01  Q.     And at any point do you actually get your whole

 02  body inside of your vehicle?

 03  A.     No.

 04  Q.     You told us you slipped?

 05  A.     I slipped, I slipped bad, fell to my knees at this

 06  point.  My truck's right here when he began hitting the

 07  side of my truck narrowly missing me, literally all I

 08  could think of, I thought my head was going to get pinned

 09  against the side of the truck, the force this guy was

 10  using, the axe he was pounding the side of the truck, I

 11  needed to get off the ground, I needed to move, because

 12  my head is going to get pinned against this fender. 

 13  Q.     How many blows to the truck take place while you

 14  are on the ground having slipped?

 15  A.     I'd say somewhere between three and five.

 16  Q.     And you stay on the ground while he hits the truck

 17  three to five times?

 18  A.     I slipped.  He's swinging at me, swinging the axe,

 19  hitting the truck, and I'm, I'm trying to get off the

 20  ground, I'm trying to get away.  As you know when you're

 21  on the ground, fully on the ground, it takes a little bit

 22  to get it up, especially when you're that shooken up,

 23  he's swinging, hitting it, hitting it, probably three

 24  times.  He smashed the window out of the driver's side,

 25  and he hit the back side, and he comes around the back


 01  side of my truck at me.

 02  Q.     How do you get from having slipped at the driver's

 03  side door to the other side of your truck?

 04  A.     I managed to get to my feet, and I pulled myself

 05  off the ground.  I said I got to get up, I got to do

 06  something.  At this point it's either get up and do

 07  something or I'm going to be hit with this axe.

 08  Q.     Do you pass front of or behind your truck?

 09  A.     I go, I go from falling here to getting myself off

 10  the ground where he's banging the side of my truck with

 11  the axe.  I go around this side, get into my passenger

 12  side with Corey unlocks the truck because now he has

 13  access to my truck, anything in it, and I get the 30-06,

 14  which is the most convenient rifle that is there.

 15  Q.     How do you get in to the vehicle to get the 30-06?

 16  A.     I open the door.

 17  Q.     How many?

 18  A.     One door, reach into back seat where the guns were

 19  face down, I get the -06, reach in the glove box, put the

 20  clip in, and then he comes around the back.

 21  Q.     So what direction does Vinny come at that point?

 22  A.     He comes from around back side of my truck towards

 23  me.

 24  Q.     So you are closer now to the front side of your

 25  truck on the passenger side, Vinny's towards the


 01  back side of your truck on the passenger side?

 02  A.     That's correct.  Vinny comes around, swings wide

 03  more towards Gib's car and is coming at me.

 04  Q.     All right.  Where does shot one take place?

 05  A.     Shot one takes place in between these two

 06  vehicles, my shot, my truck and Gib's car, he's coming at

 07  me right here.  I'm backpedaling like this telling him to

 08  stop, drop the axe, don't come closer.  His tongue is

 09  like hanging out of his mouth laughing hysterically, ha,

 10  ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, has no fear, no fear whatsoever.

 11  Q.     Where in relation to the front of your truck are

 12  you when shot one is fired?

 13  A.     I'm around this area right here.

 14  Q.     So you're actually closer to the tent than the

 15  front of your truck?

 16  A.     I'm right, right by the front of my truck.

 17  Q.     Okay. 

 18  A.     In between my truck right about this area here.

 19  Q.     All right.  You know what, why don't you put an

 20  S-1 for where you are when you fire your first shot. 

 21  Let's put a V-1 for where Vinny is when you fire your

 22  first shot.  Okay. 

 23               What happens after the first shot is

 24  fired. 

 25               Why don't you, Mr. Bolaski, sit down and


 01  tell me.  Then we'll see whether we want the drawings or

 02  not. 

 03  A.     All right.  So Vinny, Vinny goes around this way,

 04  tries to get at me this way.  I go this way.

 05  Q.     All right.  So you're saying that Vinny actually

 06  passes around Gib's vehicle?

 07  A.     Close to it.  Trying to get at like this truck to

 08  get a better vantage point at me where he can get up and

 09  hit me with it.

 10  Q.     You travel in what direction?

 11  A.     This way, put some distance between us this way.

 12  Q.     Why are you going this way?

 13  A.     Because he's coming around this way here, he's

 14  crouching down trying to get a swing at me, popping up,

 15  seeing where I am, and coming around.  He was still

 16  wielding the axe, looking to get a vantage point at me.

 17  Q.     You have a gun?

 18  A.     Right.

 19  Q.     You're suggesting he's coming after you?

 20  A.     Right at that point.  He was still trying to come

 21  at me.  He would never give up, never, never was going to

 22  give up. 

 23  Q.     What happens next?

 24  A.     I put some distance between me and him and come

 25  around here.  I see him dodge around here.  At this point


 01  Corey apparently had, he had circled around, gotten into

 02  the truck, which I didn't have a recollection of

 03  at that time.  I knew where Corey was.  I had seen him. 

 04  My main focus where Vinny was coming because he never

 05  stopped coming at me, never gave up.  If he had gaven up,

 06  he could have dropped the axe, said I'm all done.

 07  Q.     Can you, you told us that at some point you see

 08  Vinny approaching Corey?

 09  A.     Right.

 10  Q.     Can you do a dotted line for Vinny's path of the

 11  travel to the point where you then see him focus on

 12  Corey. 

 13               You can stand up. 

 14  A.     And then Corey had obviously gone around this way,

 15  I believe, and I had gone -- you want me to do for me? 

 16  Q.     Not draw till I ask, please. 

 17  A.     Okay.  All right. 

 18  Q.     Where is Corey? 

 19  A.     Corey is over in this direction here, I believe.

 20  Q.     All right. 

 21  A.     Like I said, I knew of his general direction,

 22  because I'd seen him run around that way from the truck.

 23  Q.     Can you draw some dots to where you end up where

 24  you are when you think Vinny has focused on Corey?

 25  A.     Where I think I am? 


 01  Q.     Yes, from where you shot the first time. 

 02  A.     Yeah, I go this way.

 03  Q.     All right. 

 04  A.     He's coming around this way.  And I come around

 05  kind of the, the back of my truck like up in here, and

 06  then Corey apparently had come over here, around, he had

 07  made his way around this way, because he saw him still

 08  coming at me, so he didn't want apparently Vinny to get

 09  at the other gun that was in the truck because this door

 10  was open.

 11  Q.     The passenger side door was open?

 12  A.     Yeah.

 13  Q.     Did you become aware at some point of Corey

 14  standing within that area of the four vehicles that

 15  you've drawn here?

 16  A.     I, I saw him, I saw him in this area over here.

 17  Q.     Put a C there, if you would, please. 

 18  A.     It's kind of a C.

 19  Q.     Okay, we'll call this a C. 

 20  A.     It's a shorthand.

 21  Q.     Okay.  What does Vinny do at that point?

 22  A.     Vinny focuses attention on Corey. 

 23  Q.     All right. 

 24  A.     So when I come around this way, I see him focus

 25  attention on Corey coming around this way.


 01  Q.     You come around the front of your truck?

 02  A.     Come around the front of my vehicle, yes.

 03  Q.     All right.  And what prompts you to fire the

 04  second shot?

 05  A.     I see my brother here, and I see him coming

 06  towards, Vinny coming towards my brother, and at that

 07  point he's facing me, too.  So then by the time I fired

 08  up, pulled up to take another shot, he's still fully

 09  functional, still coming at us, still not getting any

 10  sign of backing down, he's still fully aggressive moving

 11  fine.  I mean, if I had taken a shot to the leg, I would

 12  have said, I'm done, but he never dropped the axe, and he

 13  never gave up.  I saw him going to Corey.  I said I'm

 14  going to do anything for my brother.  I'm not going to

 15  let him get at Corey with an axe.  I didn't know Corey

 16  had a gun.

 17  Q.     Would you put an S-2 where you were when you fired

 18  the second time?

 19  A.     I believe I was in the, about in the general area

 20  of the first shot. 

 21  Q.     And a V-2 --

 22  A.     And he had --

 23  Q.     -- for where Vinny was, this a V-2?

 24  A.     Yeah, yeah.

 25  Q.     For where Vinny --


 01  A.     Yep, yep, he ended up right here, back at Gib's

 02  car. 

 03  Q.     How about a V-3 for where you think he ended up. 

 04               How does -- I think you can close your pen

 05  cap now -- how far does Vinny get from sport V-2 to spot

 06  V-3? 

 07  A.     I mean apparently, he apparently, when you get

 08  shot, I mean, you can obviously move five feet, you can

 09  obviously manage to go a little bit further, you know.

 10  Q.     Okay. 

 11  A.     It's not like he just dropped right there.

 12  Q.     He didn't collapse right to the ground?

 13  A.     He obviously made it to the end of that vehicle

 14  because he was standing there when I shot him the second

 15  time.

 16  Q.     When you fired shot two, are you aware of where

 17  Corey is at that point?

 18  A.     Yes.

 19  Q.     Where do you think Corey is? 

 20  A.     Corey is right here.  Shot two.  I saw him out of

 21  the corner of my eye.  I saw Vinny coming after Corey, so

 22  I fired the second shot. 

 23  Q.     How do you know Vinny was coming after Corey? 

 24  A.     I saw him advancing towards Corey, saw Corey

 25  backpedaling.  I didn't know he had a rifle.


 01  Q.     Were you aware where shot -- you told us you

 02  weren't even sure that he was hit by shot one?

 03  A.     Right, that's correct.

 04  Q.     Where were you aiming?

 05  A.     Low.

 06  Q.     Low on his body?

 07  A.     Low on his leg.

 08  Q.     Where were you aiming for shot two?

 09  A.     Low on his body.  Both shots were low. 

 10  Q.     Are you aware that shot two hit him?

 11  A.     Yes.

 12  Q.     Where did you hit him?

 13  A.     I thought I hit him in the leg.  I was aiming for

 14  his leg. 

 15  Q.     For shot two?

 16  A.     Yes.  Both shots were low.  Neither shot was

 17  intended for kill shot. 

 18  Q.     Say again?

 19  A.     Neither shots were intended to be kill shots,

 20  otherwise they have been above the waist.  You know, I'm

 21  a good shot.  I, I wouldn't, I wasn't trying to kill the

 22  man.  I was just trying to simply disable him and keep

 23  him from causing any further harm or danger to my brother

 24  and myself.  Meanwhile my dog's flipping out inside,

 25  during all of this.  And I don't know what's going to


 01  happen.  This guy's an absolute crazed mad man who is

 02  enraged, it seemed to me like a steroid rage, it's what

 03  it seemed like to me.  He was, he was beyond human power,

 04  because any man that takes a shot in the leg and doesn't

 05  go down on the first shot, still aggressing coming toward

 06  you, is obviously not in the right state of mind or he's

 07  obviously on something, some, something that's not,

 08  beyond human power.  Because I don't, I, if I got shot in

 09  the leg, even if it didn't hit bone, I would say this guy

 10  means business, I'm not going to come after him with

 11  an axe. 

 12  Q.     After Vinny goes down, after you approach him,

 13  what do you do with the 30-06?

 14  A.     I still have it in my hands.

 15  Q.     What did you do with it?

 16  A.     I have it in my hand.  I kicked him a couple times

 17  to make sure he was going to stay down.

 18  Q.     And then what do you do with the gun? 

 19  A.     I put it in the passenger side of my truck.

 20  Q.     Did you ever hear Corey fire the .22?

 21  A.     Never.

 22  Q.     Did you have an awareness of whether he had a .22?

 23  A.     Nope, I knew it was in my truck, but I never saw

 24  him grab it.  My focus was watching where Vinny was

 25  going, because he was still trying to come after me,


 01  because then I saw him turn on Corey.  When he came into

 02  the scene, I saw Corey out of corner of my eye, I saw him

 03  coming towards Corey, came around, that's when I shot him

 04  the second time because he was advancing towards Corey.

 05  Q.     At the ball field, did you fire any other gun

 06  other than the 30-06?

 07  A.     No, sir.

 08  Q.     How many shots did you fire?

 09  A.     Two.

 10  Q.     How sure are you of that?

 11  A.     Positive.  Hundred percent. 

 12  Q.     Hundred percent?

 13  A.     Positive.

 14  Q.     Okay.  After you slipped and your truck is being

 15  smashed, why didn't you run away?

 16  A.     After I slipped and my truck was being smashed, I

 17  was already, he was already close enough to me at that

 18  point that he was closing in on me, he was right there,

 19  you know, I had him trashing my truck right beside my

 20  head.  I thought he was going do kill me, so I thought he

 21  was after me, that, I thought my life was in danger.

 22  Q.     So I'll repeat my question.  He was smashing your

 23  truck?

 24  A.     Right.

 25  Q.     You go around to the other side?


 01  A.     Right.

 02  Q.     You open up the truck, you reach in, you get the

 03  30-06, you reach in the glove box? 

 04  A.     Right.

 05  Q.     You load the 30-06?

 06  A.     Right.

 07  Q.     Why didn't you run away?

 08  A.     It's close, the area, fairly small area where you

 09  have to run around vehicles.  If I had ran through here,

 10  I could have been caught by him easily.  I mean, there's

 11  only so far you can run.  There's fences everywhere,

 12  fence here, ends right here.  It's river and a bunch of

 13  woods, and, I mean, I was already, he already tried to

 14  kill me with the axe.  I had nowhere to go at that point. 

 15  It was, it was matter of staying alive.  Just a matter of

 16  survival at that point.

 17               JUROR:  You said afterwards you went over

 18  and you kicked him.  Where on his body did you kick him?

 19               THE WITNESS:  In the back of his head.  I

 20  just wanted to make sure he stayed down, didn't get

 21  back up.  He caused tremendous amount of, obviously

 22  caused tremendous amount of fear in me.  I wanted to make

 23  sure he didn't get back up. 

 24               Yes. 

 25               JUROR:  At this same point, then, you put


 01  the gun back in your truck.  What made you think you

 02  could get the, put the gun away at that point? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  Because I realized he wasn't

 04  going to get back up.  I was making sure he was staying

 05  down.  I made sure he stayed down.  I put it away because

 06  I realized I didn't need it.  

 07               Yes, sir.  There

 08               JUROR:  Could you tell by the way he was

 09  carrying the axe if he was right-handed or left-handed.

 10               THE WITNESS:  No, sir.  I know he had it

 11  cocked up like this to his right shoulder.  That would

 12  mean --

 13               JUROR:  Maybe he was right-handed. 

 14               THE WITNESS:  Maybe at that point I wasn't

 15  paying attention to those details.  I was just trying to

 16  get a away from him. 

 17               Yes, ma'am. 

 18               JUROR:  Do you see anyone get access to

 19  your gun after you put it away, or any point did the gun

 20  go in anyone else's hands in the area? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  My thirty-ought -- my

 22  brother's 30-06? 

 23               JUROR:  Yes.

 24               THE WITNESS:  No, ma'am, stayed right

 25  there. 


 01               Yes, ma'am. 

 02               JUROR:  Did anyone speak to you before the

 03  police arrived and after the shot? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, I met, I met with my

 05  brother, and he calmed me down, comforted me, and told me

 06  to just wait here, everything, wait for the cops to come,

 07  police to arrive.

 08               JUROR:  Were you in the same position as

 09  you were when you -- where did you go, I guess, after you

 10  shot? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  To the front side of my

 12  truck where I met Corey.  He came back from where he had

 13  backpedaled away from Vinny, and he came over to comfort

 14  me and try to get me together because I was, obviously I

 15  was fairly shooken up as to what just happened.

 16               JUROR:  Did anyone else come over to the

 17  victim after you or while you were there? 

 18               THE WITNESS:  I did see one other man kick

 19  him, Tim Arbuckle.

 20               JUROR:  How do you know Tim? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  Tim is Jerry's, part of

 22  Jerry's family or was supposed to be.  They are close

 23  because Jerry's sister is engaged to Tim's brother, Tom,

 24  so they are kind of like part of family.

 25               JUROR:  Any idea why? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  I'm not sure why he came at,

 02  out of nowhere.  He wasn't even a part of the whole

 03  thing.  He was running away.  He was away on the other

 04  side, so I'm not sure why he came over.

 05               JUROR:  Since I'm standing, I'm going to

 06  ask a couple other ones.

 07               THE WITNESS:  That's fine.

 08               JUROR:  What's Vinny doing while you're

 09  going around the vehicle opening the vehicle, getting

 10  into the vehicle, getting the rifle, getting that stuff

 11  together? 

 12               THE WITNESS:  He's making his way around

 13  coming towards me.

 14               JUROR:  Okay.  All right.

 15               THE WITNESS:  At some point I remember him

 16  saying fucking, fucking kill, I'm going to mother fucking

 17  kill you, just screaming, just out of his mind.  I can't

 18  even explain the look of his face, looked like he was on

 19  something, I mean, above human power.

 20               THE WITNESS:  Okay.  So then you take shot

 21  number one from the front of your vehicle towards the

 22  back of Gib's car, vehicle, you hit him.  Is Vinny facing

 23  you at that time? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  Yeah.

 25               JUROR:  Okay.  And then he goes back


 01  behind Gib's vehicle? 

 02               THE WITNESS:  Right, he's trying, he's

 03  almost trying to gain a vantage point because I know he's

 04  not going to be able to confront me, he's trying to get

 05  around, he's still got the axe like this, trying to get

 06  at me.  That's why I put some space between us.  I didn't

 07  want hi to come back around and get at me.  It almost

 08  seemed to enrage him, the first shot almost seemed to

 09  enrage him and make him angrier and wanted to get at me

 10  more.

 11               JUROR:  In doing that, could you, as you

 12  look at your diagram, think of maybe there was a way to

 13  go in a different direction to get away from him, I mean,

 14  at this point could you have, you know, gone away

 15  further, faster, being armed and things like that? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, but like I said, I

 17  seen my brother out of corner of my eye.

 18               JUROR:  Okay.

 19               THE WITNESS:  I saw him coming towards my

 20  brother when I made my way around the truck to defend my

 21  brother at that point.  I didn't realize he had a rifle. 

 22  I didn't realize he fired two shots.

 23               JUROR:  Okay.  So in that, yeah, fine. 

 24  Thank you.

 25               THE WITNESS:  Yep.  


 01               Yes, ma'am. 

 02               MR. SAND:  Can I stop you.  I'm sorry.  On

 03  what part of Vinny's body did Tim Arbuckle kick Vinny? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  I believe he kicked him many

 05  times.  I'm not sure how many.  I walked away from it. 

 06  And he actually left the scene altogether.  So I believe

 07  it was all all over.  I'm not sure where exactly.  I

 08  couldn't tell you.  I only kicked him a couple times just

 09  to make sure he was down.  I wanted, didn't want him to

 10  get back up.  I don't know why Tim came over.  Doesn't

 11  make any sense to me.

 12               JUROR:  Kyle, what was your brother

 13  wearing that day; do you remember? 

 14               THE WITNESS:  What was he wearing? 

 15               JUROR:  Yeah.

 16               THE WITNESS:  Just a pair of shorts and

 17  T-shirt. 

 18               JUROR:  What were you wearing. 

 19               THE WITNESS:  I was wearing just a pair of

 20  shorts and a pair of sneakers.  It was a hot day.  I

 21  didn't have a shirt on at all. 

 22               Yes, ma'am. 

 23               JUROR:  When you and Tim were kicking

 24  Vinny, did you hear anybody ask, suggest for you to stop? 

 25               THE WITNESS:  When I went over to him, it


 01  was only for a brief moment, just to make sure that he

 02  was down, and then I, I stopped.  I only kicked him a

 03  couple times just to make sure He wouldn't be going to

 04  get back up.

 05               JUROR:  You didn't do anything to, you

 06  don't hear anybody tell to you stop? 

 07               THE WITNESS:  No.

 08               JUROR:  Were you kicking him forcefully,

 09  or can you, do you remember? 

 10               THE WITNESS:  It was just --

 11               JUROR:  Were you like, urr, urr, urr? 

 12               THE WITNESS:  It wasn't a hard kick.  It

 13  was a half kick to make sure he was still, wasn't to get

 14  going, to get up.  I was so in fear for my life, and I

 15  did not want this man to get back up.  I did not know

 16  what he was capable of.  After the first shot he was

 17  seemingly unaffected by the first shot, and so I didn't

 18  know if the second shot was going to keep him down or

 19  not.

 20               JUROR:  You weren't doing this kind of a

 21  kick? 

 22               THE WITNESS:  No, if wasn't a stomp.  It

 23  was back of my foot.

 24  BY MR. SAND: 

 25  Q.     Mr. Bolaski?


 01  A.     Yes, sir.

 02  Q.     Anything about the kicks do you think those are

 03  kicks that were sufficiently forceful to inflict injury? 

 04  A.     They weren't that strong of kicks. 

 05  Q.     Okay. 

 06  A.     At all.

 07  Q.     And were you aware of whether Vinny was alive at

 08  that point?

 09  A.     I believe he was, yeah.  He was alive still, yeah.

 10  Q.     But you didn't kick him hard enough to cause

 11  injury?

 12  A.     No, no. 

 13               Yes, ma'am. 

 14               JUROR:  I'm still confused.  I think you

 15  said that you saw Vinny kicking him, but then, but so I'd

 16  like to have a little clarification.

 17               JUROR:  Tim.

 18               JUROR:  I'm sorry, Tim kicking him.

 19               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 20               JUROR:  If you did see him kicking him,

 21  can you talk about the force of that, or where it was

 22  that he kicked him? 

 23               THE WITNESS:  It was kicking him

 24  forcefully. 

 25               JUROR:  Where was that? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  I believe it was in his

 02  torso, to his head, I believe, forceful kicks.

 03               JUROR:  Did you see anyone use a weapon on

 04  him at this point? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  No, sir -- no, ma'am.

 06               JUROR:  What conditional was your gun in

 07  when you put it away? 

 08               THE WITNESS:  What condition? 

 09               juror:  Did you happen to notice what it

 10  looked like, was it still intact as when you took it out? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  Oh, yeah.

 12               JUROR:  Was it -- what did it look like? 

 13               THE WITNESS:  Just the same as I had taken

 14  it out.

 15               JUROR:  So you say it looked fine, there

 16  was --

 17               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, absolutely.

 18               JUROR:  Can you tell me, do you remember,

 19  second shot, was Vinny facing toward you, half facing

 20  towards you, half facing away, or completely facing away? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  When I pulled up, he was

 22  facing towards us.  He, he had been turned a little bit

 23  so --

 24               JUROR:  You think the bullets struck him

 25  in the front? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  He may have been turned just

 02  so that it may have entered the back and exited the

 03  front.  Like I said, by the time I saw him coming, and he

 04  may have turned by the time I pulled up, but he was

 05  coming at us, I initially pulled up, the reaction time

 06  between, you know, when I pulled up and when he saw me,

 07  he might have turned.

 08               JUROR:  Thank you.

 09               JUROR:  When you fired your second shot --

 10               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 11               JUROR:  -- Corey was to your left? 

 12               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 13               JUROR:  And can you give me a guesstimate

 14  of the distance between you and Corey? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  Between me and Corey? 

 16               JUROR:  No, I mean you are at the front,

 17  he was sort of backpedaling between the two, or were you

 18  thinking he might have been a distance --

 19               THE WITNESS:  I think, see, he was

 20  backpedaling away from Vinny trying to put some distance

 21  between him and Vinny.  Vinny was coming around, he may

 22  have been, Corey may have been fifteen feet away from me,

 23  twenty feet, maybe,

 24               JUROR:  Okay.

 25               THE WITNESS:  Backpedaling.


 01               JUROR:  Okay.

 02               THE WITNESS:  Still moving backwards.

 03               JUROR:  Okay.  When Vinny went around

 04  Gib's vehicle, and you stated that you wanted to put as

 05  much distance between you and him --

 06               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 07               JUROR:  -- so you went around the back. 

 08  When you were at the back of your vehicle, is that when

 09  you noticed Corey? 

 10               THE WITNESS:  I saw corey, yes.

 11               JUROR:  And thus you came around? 

 12               THE WITNESS:  I came around, yeah. 

 13               JUROR:  Okay. 

 14               THE WITNESS:  I felt that he may be in

 15  danger, threat.  In fact, so he was.

 16               JUROR:  Vinny was roughly halfway down

 17  Gib's car at this point? 

 18               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 19               JUROR:  Okay, thank you.

 20               THE WITNESS:  Yep.

 21               JUROR:  To the best of your recollection,

 22  from the time you took the first shot to the time you

 23  took the second shot, how much time do you think passed? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  I would say it was a minute

 25  or less.  Very, it was very intense series of events in a


 01  very short period of time.  It was no more than a minute,

 02  minute and a half.  Was very quick.

 03               JUROR:  When you started your day, how

 04  many rounds do you think you had in the .22, in the .22? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  I couldn't tell you that

 06  exactly.  But, the magazine, tubular magazine holds

 07  twenty, twenty-one shots, I believe.  So I couldn't tell

 08  you exactly how many I had in there. 

 09               JUROR:  You never removed any of them

 10  other than by firing that day? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 12               JUROR:  Okay. 

 13               THE WITNESS:  I couldn't tell you exactly

 14  how many were in there.

 15               JUROR:  Backing up a little bit to when

 16  you guys are coming back over from Springfield, there's

 17  been a heated conversation between Jerry and Kirby slash

 18  Vinny, you hear the language, you hear the intensity of

 19  it.  

 20               THE WITNESS:  I --

 21               JUROR:  Go ahead.

 22               THE WITNESS:  I heard some of it.  Like I

 23  said, I was in the front seat with my brother.  We were

 24  listening to some music.  Tristan and Jerry were in the

 25  back seat talking.  I couldn't hear, you know, what was


 01  going on.  I was in a sense along for the ride.  My

 02  brother was driving.

 03               JUROR:  Right.

 04               THE WITNESS:  So in a sense they were

 05  having conversations so I didn't know exactly what was

 06  being said.

 07               JUROR:  Right.  But you would say the

 08  intensity level was more than your average, hey, what's

 09  up, what are you doing?  You would say it was more than

 10  your friendly phone call? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  It Ended that way because,

 12  like I said, Jerry had told me that Vinny got elevated

 13  with him because he had asked him to come over to his

 14  house.

 15               JUROR:  Right.  You said that Jerry

 16  responded, and it was a little bit, forget your words,

 17  animated, excited; would you agree that Jerry was little

 18  bit worked up by that, too? 

 19               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, when Vinny started

 20  screaming at him, he had obviously gotten a little

 21  elevated back with him.  No way, shape, or form did he

 22  threaten him in any way like that.

 23               JUROR:  Tristan, what's his reaction. 

 24               THE WITNESS:  Tristan's reaction is just

 25  he's, he's back there, I mean, I wasn't looking back to


 01  see the entire time.  I wasn't like, we were driving,

 02  they were having this conversation.

 03               JUROR:  Right.

 04               THE WITNESS:  I was told after the fact

 05  what was going on.

 06               JUROR:  Okay.

 07               THE WITNESS:  So it's like I can't tell

 08  you exactly what was going on in the back seat. 

 09               JUROR:  Yeah.

 10               THE WITNESS:  When we were in the front

 11  seat, corey and I.

 12               JUROR:  You mentioned Tristan still

 13  hanging on to your dog, though? 

 14               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 15               JUROR:  Still concerned, still worked up? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 17               JUROR:  Okay. 

 18               THE WITNESS:  Reason for him holding my

 19  dog is because I had a basket full of laundry, laundry

 20  there, folded.  Work clothes were pretty much in my truck

 21  all the time.  All was doing was working like six, seven

 22  days a week.  I was doing everything all at once.  I was

 23  like, and I got caught in the middle of this here. 

 24               JUROR:  And so sometimes in the, sometime

 25  between going from Springfield to the time, eleven,


 01  twelve miles back over to Chester, this phone call, this

 02  fifteen minutes later gets closer to an hour? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  Right.  Exactly, forty-five

 04  minutes to an hour.  We had forgotten all about, you

 05  know, for me, it wasn't even that much of a, of a, an

 06  issue, because I didn't have anything invested in it.  I

 07  don't know the guy.  I don't know Julie.  You know, I had

 08  forgotten all about it. 

 09               JUROR:  Did Tristan forget about it? 

 10               THE WITNESS:  Pretty much we all forgot

 11  about it.  The plan was to go back to Tristan's house,

 12  hang out, and he had the protection for the night, and he

 13  was going to be all right.  But then we got the phone

 14  call from Mike, we, led us in that direction.  It was

 15  kind of like a magnet, almost, that drew us back there, a

 16  series of events that was unfortunate.

 17               JUROR:  Yeah. 

 18               THE WITNESS:  Seriously, Tristan and guns,

 19  you go out shooting, he's not familiar with guns, he's

 20  not a hunter, he's, most operation he had with guns on

 21  video games so --

 22               JUROR:  Was he very good at, accurate? 

 23               THE WITNESS:  He's good with video games,

 24  but, I mean, I showed him the full operation of the

 25  weapon and the safety and how to load it, so, it's pretty


 01  simple, you know, it's not a complicated thing.  I'm

 02  fully comfortable with most weapons, most firearms

 03  because I've been to hunters' ed, I've hunted since I was

 04  ten years old.

 05               JUROR:  Right.

 06               THE WITNESS:  So I'm fully -- I wanted to

 07  show him the functionability of it before we sent him

 08  away with it for the night so I had --

 09               JUROR:  You showed him how to load it and

 10  things like that? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, yes, unload it,

 12  safety, everything. 

 13               JUROR:  Great.  Okay.

 14               JUROR:  While you were kicking Vinny, you

 15  still had your gun in your hand? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 17               juror:  And after you put it away, did you

 18  see anyone go near your truck? 

 19               THE WITNESS:  No, I did not.

 20               JUROR:  Or notice or anything like that? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  No, I did not. 

 22               Yes, sir. 

 23               JUROR:  You said earlier in the day when

 24  you guys were riding around, you tried the .22 to shot

 25  it? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 02               JUROR:  You remember how many shots you

 03  shot? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  I don't remember exactly,

 05  just target practicing, shooting at knots in the wood in

 06  the tree, you know, just, typical stuff.

 07               JUROR:  You also said when you got in

 08  that, when you went back, that that gun was unloaded.

 09               THE WITNESS:  Unloaded. 

 10               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 11               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, it, there was no,

 12  there was no cartridge in the chamber.

 13               JUROR:  But were there any in the tube? 

 14               THE WITNESS:  I'm not sure, exactly. 

 15               JUROR:  Thank you.

 16               THE WITNESS:  There was none in the

 17  chamber, though.  To answer that question. 

 18               JUROR:  You're probably aware we talked to

 19  a lot of people involved.

 20               THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.

 21               JUROR:  Can you explain to me who Jordan

 22  is in relation to you and relation to your group of

 23  friends? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  She is a friend of ours, she

 25  was hanging out with Gib that day, she's friends of


 01  Michelle and Tristan.  And I dated her briefly.  But

 02  didn't last long. 

 03               JUROR:  You hadn't dated her for awhile,

 04  then? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  Not too long.

 06               JUROR:  But recently you broken up or --

 07               THE WITNESS:  Not too recently, no.  Few

 08  months. 

 09               Did you have a question?  I thought I saw

 10  a hand.  Yes, sir. 

 11               JUROR:  Going back to the apartment. 

 12               THE WITNESS:  Yep.

 13               JUROR:  Kind of follow up on this

 14  gentleman's question.  When you loaded both weapons into

 15  the truck --

 16               THE WITNESS:  Yep. 

 17               JUROR:  -- you said you unloaded,

 18  completely unloaded the 30.06? 

 19               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 20               JUROR:  The magazine was in the glove

 21  compartment? 

 22               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 23               JUROR:  Nothing in the chamber? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  That's right.

 25               JUROR:  The .22, the same thing? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  I didn't check the .22.  

 02  The .22, I wasn't sure how many shots were in the actual

 03  tubular feed magazine because there was no shots in the

 04  actual chamber itself. 

 05               JUROR:  So the gun was still loaded.

 06               THE WITNESS:  I'm not sure if it was or if

 07  it wasn't, to be honest with you.  Then I do know there

 08  was no shots in the chamber itself. 

 09               JUROR:  I guess I do have a question.  Do

 10  you know what happened to the dog? 

 11               THE WITNESS:  Actually I was very

 12  concerned about my dog that night, because I obviously

 13  was held down at the barracks for a long period of time. 

 14  And he was one of my main concerns and --

 15               JUROR:  What did you mean by the barracks? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  Down at the state police

 17  barracks.  I was held there.

 18               JUROR:  No, no, I'm sorry, I meant what

 19  happened to the DOG during this incident; you said he was

 20  in the car? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  He was inside the truck

 22  going nuts and I wasn't sure what had happened to him.  I

 23  didn't know what happened to him that Night.  I didn't

 24  find out until two days after because he had jumped out

 25  somewhere in the mix and, you know, obviously he could


 01  have been killed in this, too.  I mean, he's still

 02  traumatized by the smashing of the glass and any loud

 03  noises, he's traumatized by it, as well.  I mean, he was

 04  potentially a threat to be harmed, as well, in this

 05  incident.  He's like my son.  I don't know if any of you

 06  guys have animals, either, but, he's, he's my little

 07  buddy. 

 08               Yes, ma'am. 

 09               JUROR:  At any point of all of Vinny's

 10  menacing, anybody, all your friends and -- did anybody

 11  perhaps go calling to the police? 

 12               THE WITNESS:  I believe Springfield Police

 13  Department was called the day before.  But, nothing.

 14               JUROR:  Not during that time that you had

 15  this phone call? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  No.

 17               Yes, sir. 

 18               JUROR:  You said when you fell down, you

 19  were trying to get in, the door was locked?

 20               THE WITNESS:  Yeah.

 21               JUROR:  Vinny was swinging at you? 

 22               THE WITNESS:  Swinging at me as I fell on

 23  the ground, I could feel him right beside me.

 24               JUROR:  You said he swung four or five

 25  times? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 02               JUROR:  You were still on the ground? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  While I was on the ground,

 04  hitting the truck at least three times. 

 05               JUROR:  So you don't think he could have

 06  hit you if he really wanted to?  You think he was trying? 

 07               THE WITNESS:  I was dodging him.  I was

 08  trying to move the other way as he was swing, swing,

 09  swing, so I'm trying to get up off the ground and get

 10  around my truck, put some distance between us.

 11               JUROR:  Thank you.

 12               THE WITNESS:  After he was done, he moved

 13  around. 

 14               THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.

 15               JUROR:  We really appreciate your taking

 16  the time to answer all the questions. 

 17               Vinny gets out of vehicle, he has his

 18  splitting maul, he starts chasing you guys, bolting

 19  straight down the driveway? 

 20               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 21               JUROR:  Or whatever that was, the street,

 22  the roadway.  Stop anywhere, say anything to anyone, do

 23  anything, or is he just hot on your tail chasing right

 24  after you guys. 

 25               THE WITNESS:  He was hot on our tail.  I


 01  do believe that there was, I found out after the fact

 02  that there was some brief conversation where he told a

 03  girl, Jordan, that he could fucking kill her with an axe,

 04  with the axe, but I didn't see any of that.

 05               JUROR:  And during that time, it had

 06  seemed like he was keeping pace with you? 

 07               THE WITNESS:  Oh, yeah, he was keeping

 08  pace.  I could feel him coming behind me.  He's a heavy

 09  guy.  I could feel the footsteps coming behind me.  I was

 10  on the ground, I knew he was closing in on me.  I felt

 11  the first blow right here.

 12               JUROR:  He swing at, he was taking, as he

 13  was chasing you guys down that --

 14               THE WITNESS:  I mean, he was waving it

 15  around, crazily.

 16               JUROR:  Not like, not, you know swinging

 17  it back and forth? 

 18               THE WITNESS:  I mean, he had it cocked up,

 19  he was just headed, I mean, could have been going like

 20  this, you know. 

 21               JUROR:  Okay.

 22               THE WITNESS:  I mean, he wasn't -- I mean,

 23  it's pretty hard to swing like that.  He had it cocked,

 24  was coming.

 25               JUROR:  Okay.


 01               THE WITNESS:  So.

 02               JUROR:  Thank you.

 03               THE WITNESS:  Yep, yes, sir.

 04               JUROR:  When you made it around the other

 05  side of the truck, who unlocked the truck? 

 06               THE WITNESS:  My brother.  He had the

 07  keys.

 08               JUROR:  And He was where? 

 09               THE WITNESS:  When he unlocked it, I

 10  believe he was making his way, when he was running, he

 11  ran around this way, so he was somewhere in that region

 12  when he came around, and I saw him coming around.

 13               JUROR:  So he unlocked it with --

 14               THE WITNESS:  It's a keyless --

 15               JUROR:  Keyless? 

 16               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, remote controls. 

 17               Yep. 

 18               MR. SAND:  Mr. Bolaski.

 19               THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.

 20               MR. SAND:  Thank you very much.

 21               JURORS:  Thank you.

 22               THE WITNESS:  Say, thank you, all you

 23  guys.  Nice meeting you. 






POLICE INTERVIEW BY DET. SGT. WILLIAM JENKINS...                                                          1
 1                  STATE OF VERMONT
                   WINDSOR COUNTY, SS.



 4                          ) DOCKET NO. 972-8-08 Wrcr
              v.            )           

 5                          )
    KYLE BOLASKI,             ) Digital Recording

 6                Defendant.  )




10                      STATEMENT

11                         OF

12                     KYLE BOLASKI

        As recorded on August 17, 2008, at the Vermont

14       State Police Barracks, Rockingham, Vermont.          












 1                   (August 17, 2008)

 2               DET. SGT. JENKINS:  All right.  This is

 3   Detective Sergeant William Jenkins, Vermont State

 4   Police.  It's August 17, 2008, approximately 2341 hours.  

 5   I'm here at the state police barracks in Rockingham in

 6   the processing room.  

 7       Q.     Sir, I actually haven't even gotten your

 8   name yet.  

 9       A.     Kyle Bolaski, K-y-l-e.  

10       Q.     How do you spell your last name?  

11       A.     B-o-l-a-s-k-i.  

12       Q.     A-s-k-i?  

13       A.     Yep.  

14       Q.     What's your date of birth?  

15       A.     1/4/84.  

16       Q.     And your address?  

17       A.     Address right now is in Chester.  I just

18   moved to Chester but --  

19       Q.     Okay.  Do you know the road?

20       A.     -- I haven't changed my address.  It's North

21   Street (inaudible).  

22       Q.     North Street?  Do you have a number?  

23       A.     It's 197, I think.  

24       Q.     In Chester?  

25       A.     Yeah.  

 1       Q.     And what's your home phone number?  

 2       A.     All's I have is a cell phone.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  

 4       A.     I'm not even sure where that ended up

 5   tonight.  

 6       Q.     What's your cell number?  

 7       A.     376-3766.  Officer pulled it out of my

 8   pocket.  

 9       Q.     Okay.

10       A.     I'm not sure if he has that or not.  

11       Q.     Okay.  376-3766?  

12       A.     Yeah.  

13       Q.     Okay.  And you understand that I'm recording

14   this, correct?  

15       A.     Yes.  

16       Q.     Okay.  Why don't you just tell me what

17   happened.  

18       A.     All right.  I was at the softball field in

19   Chester, and I was visiting with some of my buddies, and

20   one of the kids I was with, he was scared because this

21   kid pulled up in a car and was waiting outside for us,

22   we were -- we were sitting there, and we were trying to

23   figure out what was going on, and in all that, he pulled

24   a ax -- pickax out of his car, and he started running at

25   us with the pickax, threatening us, saying he was going

 1   to hit us with it.  

 2             And so I was running back to my truck, and I

 3   tried getting into my truck at that point, and he

 4   started hitting the side of my truck because I fell on

 5   the ground.  He was trying to hit -- swinging it at me

 6   and he was hitting the side of my truck, hitting my

 7   doors, hitting my windows.  I had my dog inside.  My

 8   brother was right there.  

 9             And at that point, I reached into my truck

10   when he was coming at me with the pickax, and I had a

11   30-06 in my truck that I always carry in my truck

12   because I'm a hunter, and I had been scouting around

13   that day, and it's coyote season, so I always have one

14   in my truck.  

15             And at that point when he was chasing me

16   around the side of the -- my truck, I put the clip into

17   the gun in self-defense, and he still approached me with

18   it, with the pickax in his hands swinging it at me

19   saying he was going to come after me, coming at me.  

20             Everybody was scared.  No one knew what to

21   do.  He was a madman, out of control.  I was scared for

22   my life, I was scared for my dog, scared for my brother,

23   scared for my friends that were there.  Didn't know what

24   to do at that point.  So I took the gun out.  

25             As he approached me -- he was coming at me

 1   with the pickax.  As he approached me, I -- I warned

 2   him, I said step back, you know?  It was self-defense at

 3   this point.  What would anybody else do if they were

 4   being approached with a ax, someone swinging it at them,

 5   swinging it at their truck, you know?  What would you

 6   do?  

 7             I had to react quick, and I took a shot at

 8   him at the leg just to try to wound him to keep him away

 9   from me, my -- my brother and my dog, everybody that was

10   there.  Swinging the ax like a madman.  You found it at

11   the scene, correct?  

12       Q.     We -- I haven't searched the scene or done

13   anything like that, in fact, at all yet, so I'm talking

14   to you first so --  

15       A.     Okay.  So at that point when -- when he came

16   at me, I did fire a shot, and he came at me swinging the

17   ax at me, trying to hit me with it.  I was scared.  One

18   shot with that ax would have put me down.  I tried to

19   get in my truck and he'd smash my windows out of my

20   truck, smash the doors in my truck.  

21             So at that point when he refused to not --

22   not lay back and not come at me, I fired at him again

23   because I was scared, you know?  He was trying to cause

24   harm to me, my truck, my dog that was in the back seat,

25   my brother that was with me, and I had another friend

 1   that was with me, and I was scared, was scared for my

 2   life, scared for people around me.  Anybody that's

 3   coming at me -- he had a Taser gun in his hand, he had a

 4   ax in his hand coming at me trying -- trying to harm me

 5   and do harm to me.  

 6             If it weren't for that, I wouldn't -- you

 7   know, it would have -- never have come to that, but when

 8   someone -- when you're faced with that and you have

 9   to -- realize you have to do something, it's either

10   going to be you, your friends or your family or this guy

11   that's a madman coming at you with a ax.  What -- what

12   do you do at that point?  

13       Q.     Okay.  

14       A.     What can you do?  He's coming at me.  I

15   tried getting in my truck, and I slipped and he swung

16   the ax at me, hit the side of my truck, broke my windows

17   out, broke everything on the side of my truck.  At that

18   point, I had nothing else to do.  It was either to get

19   hit with the ax -- you know, if he had -- if he

20   connected with me and the ax in my head, what would have

21   happened?  I wouldn't be -- I'd be dead myself.  So at

22   that point, it was self-defense on my end.  I just felt

23   I did what I had to do to -- to stay alive at that point

24   because he was coming at me screaming, yelling.  I don't

25   even know who this person is --  

 1       Q.     Right.  

 2       A.     -- but I -- I don't have any relationship to

 3   him.  I don't know who he was.  All's I know is he was

 4   coming at me with a ax.  That's all I -- that's all I

 5   know, Officer.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  All right.  Let's -- let's back up

 7   here a little bit.  It's important that we go through

 8   this step by step.  Okay?  

 9       A.     All right.  

10       Q.     What time did you get to the softball field?  

11       A.     The softball field?  

12       Q.     Yep.  

13       A.     I couldn't tell you exactly what time it was

14   that we got there.  

15       Q.     Roughly.  Morning?  Afternoon?  

16       A.     It was at night.  

17       Q.     Was it dark yet?  

18       A.     Not dark yet, no.  

19       Q.     Okay.  So --  

20       A.     It wasn't dark.  It was still light.  

21       Q.     Okay.  Like --  

22       A.     Plenty of light enough.  Maybe it was 7:00,  

23   7:30.  

24       Q.     Seven, 7:30?  

25       A.     Yep.

 1       Q.     And who did you go with?  

 2       A.     My friend Tristan was driving my truck, my

 3   brother --  

 4       Q.     Tristan who?  

 5       A.     Tristan Blanchard.  

 6       Q.     Blanchard?  

 7       A.     Yep.  

 8       Q.     How old is she?  

 9       A.     It's a -- it's a male.  

10       Q.     Oh, I'm sorry.  All right.  How old is he?  

11       A.     He's roughly 20, 21.  

12       Q.     Twenty-one?  He was driving the truck?  

13       A.     Yeah.  

14       Q.     Okay.  Who else was with you?  

15       A.     My brother Corey.  

16       Q.     Where was he sitting?  

17       A.     He was in the back seat.  

18       Q.     Which side in the back?  Like behind the

19   passenger?  

20       A.     I can't -- I can't recall.  I think he was

21   sitting behind the -- the driver.  My friend Jerry Ucci

22   was there as well.  

23       Q.     Jerry who?  

24       A.     Jerry Ucci.  

25       Q.     Is that with a J -- with a G or a J?  

 1       A.     J.  

 2       Q.     How do you spell his last name?  

 3       A.     U-c-c-i.  

 4       Q.     U-c-c-i?  And where was he sitting?  

 5       A.     In the back seat as well.  Along with my dog

 6   Howie.  

 7       Q.     What kind of dog?  

 8       A.     He's a husky-collie mix.  You haven't heard

 9   if he's all right, have you?  

10       Q.     I don't, but I'm sure --  

11       A.     I don't know where he ended up in the whole

12   mix --  

13       Q.     Right.  

14       A.     -- because he's -- he was in the truck the

15   whole time when the windows were getting smashed up.  

16       Q.     Husky-collie mix?  

17       A.     Yep.  

18       Q.     Okay.  Where were you sitting in the truck

19   when you came?  

20       A.     I was sitting in the front seat.  

21       Q.     In the passenger seat?  

22       A.     Yep.  Yes.  Sorry.

23       Q.     Okay.  So you -- so it's four of you?  

24       A.     Yeah.  

25       Q.     You, your brother Corey, your friend Jerry.  

 1   I'm sorry.  Tristan driving?  

 2       A.     Yeah.  

 3       Q.     You?  

 4       A.     Yeah.  

 5       Q.     Your brother Corey and your friend Jerry?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  

 7       Q.     So four of you?  

 8       A.     Yeah.

 9       Q.     And your dog?  

10       A.     Yeah.  

11       Q.     And what -- what truck is yours?  

12       A.     The Ford F350.  

13       Q.     Do you know the plate number?  

14       A.     I'm not sure off the top of my head.  

15       Q.     What color is it?  

16       A.     Silver.  

17       Q.     Silver?  And you guys get there 7:00, 7:30?  

18       A.     Yeah.  

19       Q.     Okay.  And why did you go to the field?  

20       A.     Because Jerry's friend Tim was there.  

21       Q.     Okay.  

22       A.     And they were just wrapping up softball

23   so --  

24       Q.     Jerry's friend Tim?  

25       A.     Yeah.  We stopped in there to see him, and

 1   they pulled in behind us.  This black car was a

 2   hatchback or something.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  Hold on.  So you went there to see

 4   Jerry's friend Tim?  

 5       A.     Yeah.  There was a few other people there.

 6       Q.     And -- I mean, was there an event going on

 7   there?  I mean --  

 8       A.     Yeah, a softball game going on apparently.  

 9       Q.     Softball game going on?  

10       A.     Yeah.  It was just ending, so we stopped in

11   to see what was going on.  

12       Q.     Were there a lot of people there?  

13       A.     There was quite a few.  

14       Q.     Do you know Tim's last name?  

15       A.     I don't know his last name.  

16       Q.     And was Tim like in the game at all or was

17   he just watching?  

18       A.     No, he -- there were -- there was a bunch of

19   people playing softball there.  

20       Q.     Was he a softball player or --  

21       A.     Yeah.  

22       Q.     Tim is?  

23       A.     Yeah.  

24       Q.     Okay.  Now, who pulled in behind you?  

25       A.     This -- I'm not even sure who they are.  

 1   Apparently they had -- they had a problem with the kid

 2   Tristan that was in my truck.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  What kind of vehicle were they

 4   driving?  

 5       A.     It was a -- a blackish hatchback, four-door

 6   car.  

 7       Q.     Four-door?  

 8       A.     I'm not sure of the make of it.  I've never

 9   even seen them before, any of these people in my life.  

10   All's I know is he was running at me --  

11       Q.     How many people were in the car?  

12       A.     That car?  I'm not sure at all.  I don't

13   even know.  All's I know is I saw him run at us with a

14   pickax swinging it.  

15       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  Hold on.  We're going to go

16   through this step by step.  Okay?  

17       A.     Yep.  

18       Q.     This is very important.  

19       A.     Okay.  

20       Q.     So when you pull in, do they pull in right

21   behind you or they --  

22       A.     They were pulled in -- they pulled in pretty

23   much right behind us, yes.  

24       Q.     Like how many minutes behind you do you

25   think were they?  

 1       A.     It was less than -- less than five.  

 2       Q.     Less than five minutes?  

 3       A.     Yeah.  (Inaudible).

 4       Q.     So did you have time to pull in, get out of

 5   the truck?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  Oh, yeah.  We were outside the truck

 7   and hanging out there --  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     -- at the softball game.  

10       Q.     So you got there?  

11       A.     Yep.  

12       Q.     And where did you park?  

13       A.     We parked right where everybody else was

14   parking.  

15       Q.     Where's that?  I'm not real familiar with

16   there.  

17       A.     Everybody was down there hanging out by the

18   softball field.  

19       Q.     I'm not real familiar with there.  I know

20   you go in the ba -- you go around that building and you

21   turn left.  

22       A.     Yeah.  

23       Q.     Like where were you parked?  

24       A.     Right where everybody else was parked down

25   there, right --  

 1       Q.     Where is that?  I'm not --  

 2       A.     -- right by the field.  Right behind the

 3   field.  

 4       Q.     Behind the field?  By the fence or --

 5   because like I know the fence goes over there?  

 6       A.     Right.  Kind of by the fence, yeah.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  All right.  So you guys are

 8   there maybe how long?  

 9       A.     Probably five minute -- less than five

10   minutes.  

11       Q.     Okay.  Were all of you out of the truck?  

12       A.     All of us, yeah.  

13       Q.     Okay.

14       A.     Everybody was out of the truck --  

15       Q.     And who were you talking with?  

16       A.     -- hanging out.  My buddy Jerry was talking

17   with Tim and a few other people that were there I

18   knew.  I knew a couple people that were there.  I --  

19       Q.     Who were you talking to?  

20       A.     -- I graduated with them.  

21       Q.     Okay.  Who were you talking to?  

22       A.     Mo -- I hadn't really had a chance to talk

23   to anybody yet.  We were just stopped by to mingle and

24   hang out after the softball game I'd say.

25       Q.     So you weren't talking with anybody or --  

 1       A.     Not at the moment.  It was -- like I said,

 2   it's less than five minutes when they came in, so we

 3   were just getting out of the truck and talking, you

 4   know --  

 5       Q.     Yeah.  

 6       A.     -- hanging out.  

 7       Q.     So this black hatchback, where does -- where

 8   does that come -- I mean --  

 9       A.     They rolled in -- they pulled in behind us

10   and they parked outside, and this kid got out with a

11   Taser gun.  

12       Q.     What do you mean by parked outside?  

13       A.     Parked outside the parking lot where the

14   softball field is.  

15       Q.     Okay.  So how far away from you did they

16   park?  

17       A.     It was probably 50 yards away.  

18       Q.     50 yards away?  

19       A.     Yeah.  

20       Q.     Okay.

21       A.     And the kid got out with a Taser gun.  

22       Q.     Describe the Taser gun for me.  

23       A.     Taser gun --  

24       Q.     Yeah, what -- I mean, what did it look like?  

25   Was it -- did it look like -- actually look like a gun?  

 1       A.     No, Ta -- Taser gun as in just sparking.  He

 2   was lighting it up, sparking it, walking out around the

 3   car, sparking it.  

 4       Q.     What was he saying?  

 5       A.     He was saying -- saying a lot of different

 6   things.  

 7       Q.     Like what?  

 8       A.     Just yelling and saying a lot of different

 9   things like he was going to come -- come hurt us and

10   hurt my friend Tristan, hurt --  

11       Q.     Hurt which friend?  

12       A.     -- hurt everybody.  

13       Q.     Who was he mad at -- with?

14       A.     Who was he mad at?  

15       Q.     Yeah.  

16       A.     I don't know who he was mad at.  He's -- he

17   was a mad man in general.  He just came out, and as soon

18   as he started screaming, he just -- he picked the -- the

19   pickax out of his -- out of the back of his car and he

20   started running towards us.  

21       Q.     Hold on.  But he gets out with the -- with

22   the Taser?  

23       A.     Right, and he has that in his hand.  

24       Q.     Okay.  And does anybody else get out of the

25   car?  

 1       A.     Nobody else got out of the car.  

 2       Q.     Was there anybody else in the car?  

 3       A.     I think there was a driver and maybe another

 4   person, I think.  

 5       Q.     And this guy who gets out of the car with

 6   the Taser, what's his name?  

 7       A.     From what I'm told his -- I think his name

 8   is Vinny.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  

10       A.     I -- I never met the kid before in my life

11   until he started chasing after me.  

12       Q.     So you never met him before?  

13       A.     No, never in my life.  All's I know, he was

14   chasing after me with a pickax, trying to hit me with

15   it, smash my truck.  

16       Q.     Where -- was he the driver or passenger or

17   what, this -- this guy Vinny?  

18       A.     I'm not even sure.  All's -- when I -- when

19   I -- we got -- we were there hanging out --  

20       Q.     Yeah.  

21       A.     -- and I -- we looked up and we saw him

22   standing out there with a Taser gun zapping it, zapping

23   the Taser gun.  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     And --  

 1       Q.     What did he do then?  

 2       A.     He was just standing there, and then he

 3   started coming towards us.  He reached into his back

 4   seat and grabbed a pickax.  

 5       Q.     What did he do with the Taser?  

 6       A.     The Taser -- I'm not sure what happened with

 7   the Taser.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     I'm not sure where he put the Taser.  My --

10   my --  

11       Q.     Describe what the guy looks like for me.  

12       A.     He was tall, dark hair.  

13       Q.     Like how tall?  

14       A.     About six foot.  

15       Q.     Okay.  Dark hair?  

16       A.     Dark hair.  

17       Q.     How long?  

18       A.     I can't even tell you, it happened so quick.  

19   I think it's fairly --  

20       Q.     I mean, is it like -- is it like a buzz cut

21   or like a --  

22       A.     I think it's fairly short.  

23       Q.     Short?  

24       A.     Yeah.  Tattoos up and down his arms.  Big

25   guy.  

 1       Q.     Like how much do you think he weighed

 2   roughly?  

 3       A.     Roughly 250.  It's hard to tell because the

 4   best shot I got --  

 5       Q.     What was he wearing?  

 6       A.     What's that?  

 7       Q.     What was he wearing?  

 8       A.     What was he wearing?  

 9       Q.     Yeah.  

10       A.     A black wife beater, pair of shorts, I

11   think.  

12       Q.     Pair of shorts?  

13       A.     Yeah.  

14       Q.     Okay.  So you don't know where the Taser

15   went?  

16       A.     I'm not sure what he did with the Taser.  

17       Q.     Okay.  And where did -- and you said he got

18   the ax out of the back seat?  

19       A.     Ax out of the back seat and started running

20   towards us.  

21       Q.     Describe the ax for me.  

22       A.     The ax was a -- a sharp -- ax on one end and

23   it looked like a pick on the other.  I believe they call

24   it a pickax.  

25       Q.     Well, see, to me a pickax is like -- and I

 1   just want to make sure we got our -- our, you know --

 2       A.     Yeah.  I can --

 3       Q.     -- description down, you know what I mean?  

 4   But to me, a pickax is like a -- one of those axes with

 5   like a -- you know, a pick on this side about this long

 6   and then like kind of a blade on one side and it's

 7   actually for digging.  

 8       A.     That's what it looked like to me, yes.  

 9       Q.     See what I'm saying?  

10       A.     Yes, sir.

11       Q.     It's like one of those that's got like kind

12   of a flat blade on one side and like a --  

13       A.     Right.  

14       Q.     -- like a skinny poke --  

15       A.     Right.  

16       Q.     -- poker on the other end --  

17       A.     Right.  

18       Q.     -- for like real hard ground --  

19       A.     Yes, sir.

20       Q.     -- so you can kind of slam it into the

21   ground --  

22       A.     That's what it looked like to me.  

23       Q.     -- and you can use the blade to -- to dig?  

24       A.     Once again, I'm not sure exactly what --  

25       Q.     It's -- and between the poker and the -- and

 1   the flat part, it's probably about this --  

 2       A.     Right.  

 3       Q.     -- this long.  It's pretty big.  

 4       A.     Right.  Absolutely.  

 5       Q.     Is that what we're describing here?  

 6       A.     Yep.  Absolutely.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  

 8       A.     Pickax.  

 9       Q.     So not like a wood chopping ax?  

10       A.     No, it wasn't -- it wasn't a small ax.  

11       Q.     Okay.  

12       A.     All's I saw was him running at me with it,

13   but I got a good enough look at it where it wasn't a

14   small wood ax.  It was -- looked like a pickax to me.  

15       Q.     Looked like a pickax?  

16       A.     It did.  It looked like bigger than a

17   regular ax.  

18       Q.     Okay.  

19       A.     To me.  

20       Q.     Do you remember what color the handle was?  

21       A.     I don't remember what color the handle was.  

22   I think it was a wood handle.  

23       Q.     You think it was a wood handle?  

24       A.     I -- I believe it was.  

25       Q.     Do you remember what the top of it look --

 1   you know, what the -- what color the -- the blades or

 2   whatever were?  

 3       A.     The blade was just steel.  Steel blade it

 4   looked like to me.  

 5       Q.     I mean, do you know if like it was painted a

 6   color or anything?  

 7       A.     I don't.  All's I remember is he was

 8   carrying it and running it -- running at me.  I tried to

 9   get in my truck and he smashed my windows.  

10       Q.     Let's go through it step by step.  Okay?  

11       A.     All right.  

12       Q.     Okay.  So he gets -- he gets this pickax --  

13       A.     Yeah.  

14       Q.     -- out of the back seat, and what's --

15   what -- exactly what does he do next?  

16       A.     He runs.  Runs towards us.  

17       Q.     Like -- like -- like a --  

18       A.     Full out run.  

19       Q.     -- full out run?  

20       A.     Yeah.  Running at us.  

21       Q.     And when you say towards us, who is us?  

22       A.     Me, my brother, Tristan.

23       Q.     And your brother's name is what?  

24       A.     Corey.  

25       Q.     Did you tell me that?  Yeah.  

 1       A.     Corey.  

 2       Q.     What's Corey's last name?  

 3       A.     Corey Bolaski.  Same --  

 4       Q.     Same as you?  

 5       A.     -- same last name.  There was -- there was

 6   actually a bunch of other people that -- that came out

 7   to see what was going on.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     I'm not sure who -- they were softball

10   players.  They were just concerned with what was going

11   on.  There was --

12       Q.     Okay.  So he's running at you and who el --  

13       A.     And everybody -- everybody.  

14       Q.     And -- you and Corey and who else?  

15       A.     Every -- everybody that came out to that

16   point, you know.  

17       Q.     So it was a like group?  

18       A.     There was a whole group of us there so --  

19       Q.     But who is he directing this run at?  

20       A.     Everybody.  Anybody that he -- he could --

21   he could stop and catch up with, you know?  Anybody that

22   he felt was a part of what was going on, and I wasn't

23   even something that was going on with it.  You know, I

24   don't even know who he is.  But anybody that was in his

25   path, he -- he was coming after you.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  

 2       A.     And I tried to get in my truck.  

 3       Q.     Hold on.  So he's running towards you guys?  

 4       A.     Right.  

 5       Q.     What do -- and what do you do?  

 6       A.     I run, take right off.  I'm scared.  

 7       Q.     You run which way?  

 8       A.     Scared.  Running back to my truck.  Just

 9   trying to get in my truck.  Scared.  

10       Q.     Okay.  You're running back to your truck?  

11       A.     There was someone chasing me with a ax.  

12       Q.     Okay.  And what happens next?  

13       A.     I try to get in my truck.  I fall on the

14   ground.  My brother was running around the other side of

15   my truck --  

16       Q.     You fall on the ground where?  

17       A.     In front of my truck.  

18       Q.     Like in front of the grill or the side?  

19   What do you mean?  

20       A.     Because I -- I tried to open the door to get

21   into my truck.  

22       Q.     Yeah.  

23       A.     And he was coming behind me, and I had

24   slipped trying to get in my truck, and at that point I

25   got myself off the ground.  

 1       Q.     So -- so in other words, when you fall, are

 2   you next to the door, are you next to the front?  Where

 3   do -- where do you fall in relation to your truck?  

 4       A.     Next to the front door.  

 5       Q.     Next to the front door?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  

 7       Q.     Which side, driver's or passenger?  

 8       A.     Right on the driver's side.  

 9       Q.     The driver's side?  

10       A.     Yep.  I was trying to get inside somewhere

11   and it was --  

12       Q.     And how bad do you fall like?  

13       A.     Pretty bad.  I fell to my knees.  

14       Q.     You fell to your knees?  

15       A.     I slipped on the grass.  

16       Q.     Okay.  What happens next?  

17       A.     I was trying to get in my truck.  So I try

18   to get in my truck and I slip, never even make it into

19   my truck, and when I slip, my door is wide open, so I

20   close the door and I run around the back side of the

21   truck.  At that point, he had caught up with me.  

22       Q.     And the door is open why?  Did you open it

23   or it was already open?  

24       A.     The door was open wide.  Yeah.  Yes, sir.  

25       Q.     Which?  Which?  

 1       A.     The door was open -- I opened the door up to

 2   try to get in to -- out of cover so he wouldn't hit me

 3   with the ax.  

 4       Q.     Okay.  

 5       A.     But I slipped.  I didn't have time to get in

 6   because he was already caught up to me.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  

 8       A.     So I closed the door and I ran around to the

 9   back side of my truck, and at that point he smashed my

10   doors, my windows, everything, telling me he's going to

11   hurt me, going to fucking hurt me, everything else,

12   going to kill --  

13       Q.     Where are you when he's smashing the doors

14   and the windows?  

15       A.     I went to the other side of the truck.  

16       Q.     So you were on the other side of the truck?  

17       A.     Yes, sir.  

18       Q.     Like the passengers side or the driver's

19   side?  

20       A.     Yes, sir.  Passenger side.  

21       Q.     Okay.  And where -- which side -- where is

22   he smashing?  

23       A.     By the driver's side.  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     The side where I tried to initially go into

 1   because it was closest --  

 2       Q.     Okay.  

 3       A.     -- to -- to get into my truck.  

 4       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  What happens next?  

 5       A.     At that point, he's smashing my truck.  My

 6   dog is inside, and he won't stop smashing the side of my

 7   truck.  

 8       Q.     How many times do you think he's hitting

 9   your truck?  

10       A.     He hit it at least four times, three to four

11   times.  

12       Q.     Okay.  

13       A.     (Inaudible) smashing my truck --  

14       Q.     Okay.  

15       A.     -- threatening me, saying he's going to

16   hit --  

17       Q.     What's he threatening you with?  

18       A.     Saying he's going to hit me, this and that.  

19       Q.     Like what is he saying to threaten you?  

20       A.     He said he's going to -- he said he was

21   going to hit me with the ax.  

22       Q.     Said he was going to hit you with the ax?  

23       A.     Chasing me around, around my truck.  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     So I went to the other side of my truck, and

 1   in the back seat, I had my rifle, which I had used

 2   earlier.  

 3       Q.     When you say the other side, you're talking

 4   about --  

 5       A.     The passenger's side.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  And he's where now?  

 7       A.     And he's still on the driver's side --  

 8       Q.     Still on the driver's side.  

 9       A.     -- but he's approaching -- he's coming

10   around the other side trying to get to me now after he

11   smashed my truck.  

12       Q.     Coming around which side, the back or the

13   front?  

14       A.     Coming around the passenger's side of the

15   truck.  From the driver's side.  

16       Q.     Right, but which -- is he coming around the

17   back of the truck or the front of the truck?  

18       A.     From the back of the truck.  

19       Q.     He's coming around the back of the truck?  

20       A.     Yeah.  

21       Q.     You know what I'm saying?  

22       A.     The back of the truck, yep.  

23       Q.     Okay.

24       A.     The bed of the truck.  

25       Q.     Okay.  

 1       A.     So at that point, I had a rifle in my truck.  

 2       Q.     Where was it in the truck?  

 3       A.     In the back seat.  

 4       Q.     Like laying on the back seat or under the

 5   seat or where?  

 6       A.     It was laying in the back seat.  I had it --

 7   I keep it in there at all times.  

 8       Q.     Right, but where is it?  

 9       A.     It's right in the back seat, on top of the

10   back seat.  

11       Q.     On top of the back seat?  

12       A.     Yes, sir.  

13       Q.     Like if I opened your truck, would it just

14   be laying there on the back seat on the top?  

15       A.     Right underneath -- it was right underneath

16   the back seat.  There's a spot where you can sit it

17   underneath the back seat.  I normally have a gun rack,

18   that I keep it in the gun rack but just where --  

19       Q.     Right.  But I just need to know where it

20   was.  Was it -- because you said it was on the back

21   seat.  

22       A.     Right.  

23       Q.     Was it on the back seat or under the back

24   seat?  

25       A.     It was in the back seat of the truck.  

 1   Underneath the back seat of the truck.  

 2       Q.     So was it on the floor?  

 3       A.     There's a bench seat -- yeah, there's a

 4   bench seat in the back of my truck.  

 5       Q.     There's a bench seat?  

 6       A.     It was underneath there.  Yes.  Yes, sir.  

 7       Q.     So was it on the floor?  

 8       A.     Yes, sir.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  

10       A.     Yes, sir.  

11       Q.     All right.  And is that truck a four-door or

12   a two-door or what is it?  

13       A.     It's a four-door.  

14       Q.     Like four full doors?  

15       A.     Yes, sir.  

16       Q.     Okay.  So did you have to open the door to

17   get it?  

18       A.     Yes, sir.  

19       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  What did you do then?  So

20   you -- you open the door?  

21       A.     So I was really worked up.  I -- I was

22   scared, you know?  He was coming around the back of my

23   truck --  

24       Q.     Yeah.  

25       A.     -- with the ax --  

 1       Q.     Yeah.  

 2       A.     -- threatening me, and I didn't know what to

 3   do.  My dog was in there, and he's circling my truck,

 4   smashing my windows out --  

 5       Q.     Okay.  

 6       A.     -- coming after me with the ax, and he's

 7   still got a Taser somewhere.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     So he's approaching me, and I put a clip

10   into my gun.  

11       Q.     But how did you get the rifle out?  

12       A.     How did I -- I took it out with my hands.  

13       Q.     Okay.  And when you pulled it out, where --

14   where is the clip?  

15       A.     The clip --

16       Q.     Where's the magazine?  Is it in it or where

17   is it?  

18       A.     No, I keep the clip in my glove box.  Keep

19   it in there.

20       Q.     Okay.  So how did you get that?  

21       A.     Grabbed that too.  Grabbed it, put it in.  

22       Q.     Okay.  So you --  

23       A.     By the time he came around the truck --  

24       Q.     How -- how could you have gotten that if

25   you're in the back seat and you got the door open?  

 1       A.     Because it's a four-door and they fold out.  

 2       Q.     Yeah.  

 3       A.     I pulled the rifle out and I put the clip

 4   in.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  So you pull the rifle out?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  

 7       Q.     And then exactly what did you do next?  See,

 8   I'm just trying to get you to go step by step for me.  

 9   Okay?  

10       A.     Right.  I understand what you're saying.  

11       Q.     So you pull the rifle out?

12       A.     After I got the rifle, I got the clip --  

13       Q.     Out of where?  

14       A.     -- out of my glove box.  

15       Q.     So you got -- then -- so you pull the rifle

16   out and you get the clip out of your glove box?  

17       A.     Yes, sir.  

18       Q.     Okay.  That's all I'm trying to get you to

19   do.  Okay?  All right.  

20       A.     All right.  Yeah.  So then I put it in there

21   just for protection.  

22       Q.     Okay.  

23       A.     I told him to stop.  I said don't come any

24   further.  

25       Q.     Now, when you put the -- the clip in and --

 1   and just because some people don't understand what a

 2   clip is and we call a magazine --  

 3       A.     It's a magazine.  

 4       Q.     -- and it holds -- holds the --  

 5       A.     Right.  

 6       Q.     -- cartridges or the bullets, right?  

 7       A.     Right.  Yes, sir.  Yes, sir.  

 8       Q.     Did you have bullets in it or cartridges in

 9   the -- in the clip?  

10       A.     In the clip, yes, sir.  

11       Q.     Okay.  How many?  

12       A.     I think there was three or four.  

13       Q.     Three or four?  

14       A.     Yeah.  

15       Q.     Do you -- was it full?  

16       A.     The clip was full, yeah.  I always keep

17   the --  

18       Q.     Okay.  How many does it hold?  

19       A.     -- I always keep the clip full.  

20       Q.     Okay.  And how many does it hold?  

21       A.     I think it holds five altogether.  

22       Q.     Five?  

23       A.     Yeah.  

24       Q.     So how many were in there?  

25       A.     Five.  

 1       Q.     Five?  

 2       A.     Yep.  Yes, sir.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  All right.  How do you get -- well,

 4   was the rifle loaded at all when you first grabbed it?  

 5       A.     No, sir.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  So you grabbed the rifle, you grabbed

 7   a clip?  

 8       A.     Right.  

 9       Q.     What do you do then?  

10       A.     I warn him not to come any closer towards

11   me.  

12       Q.     Okay.  But did you load the rifle?  You know

13   what I mean?  

14       A.     Right.  

15       Q.     Like when did you load the rifle?  

16       A.     When he came -- when he was approaching me.  

17   As he approached me, then I loaded it.  When I warned

18   him not to come any further, then I loaded the rifle.  

19       Q.     Okay.  So for -- that's why it's real

20   important that you go -- okay?  So first you grabbed the

21   rifle, then you grabbed the clip?  

22       A.     Right.  

23       Q.     And then exactly what happens next?  

24       A.     Then I warn him not to come any closer to

25   me.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  

 2       A.     I warn him that if he comes closer and he

 3   has his ax, he's going to hit me with it, I said you're

 4   not -- it's not going to happen, don't come any closer

 5   to me with that ax.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  Where are you standing when you said

 7   that?  

 8       A.     Right beside my truck.  Right -- still --  

 9       Q.     And where is he?  

10       A.     He's coming around the back side of my

11   truck.  

12       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  What happened then?  

13       A.     So when I warned him not to come any

14   further, he's -- he kept coming.  

15       Q.     Did he say anything?  

16       A.     Like a madman.  

17       Q.     Did he -- did he --  

18       A.     Threatening me, saying he was going to hit

19   me with the ax, saying that I'm in trouble, this and

20   that.  I said -- I said nothing more than I said don't

21   come near me, don't come near me with that ax, don't

22   come near me --  

23       Q.     Okay.  

24       A.     -- warned him.  He's swinging -- swinging

25   the ax in my truck, coming around the back side, coming

 1   at me, coming at my brother.  My brother ran.  Everybody

 2   else is scattering.  He's coming directly at me --  

 3       Q.     Okay.  

 4       A.     -- because -- I don't know why.  He was

 5   chasing me back to my truck and I tried getting in.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  

 7       A.     So when he -- he came around the truck, I

 8   warned him, I said don't come any closer, don't come any

 9   closer, and he was going to swing it at me and I gave

10   him a warning shot.  

11       Q.     Whoa, whoa, whoa.  So -- but you haven't

12   loaded the rifle yet you said when you first told him

13   not to come?  

14       A.     Right.  Right.  But as he appro --

15       Q.     Okay.  So you tell him not to go closer

16   and --  

17       A.     -- as he -- as he -- yep.  As he approached

18   me.

19       Q.     Okay.  

20       A.     As he approached me after I warned him,

21   that's when I loaded it.  

22       Q.     Okay.  How did you load it?  Like what did

23   you -- tell me what you did.  

24       A.     Put the clip -- the clip -- I put the clip

25   in and then pulled the lever back to load a cartridge

 1   into the chamber.  

 2       Q.     Pulled the lever back?  

 3       A.     Yep.  

 4       Q.     What kind of rifle was it?  

 5       A.     It's a 30-06 semi-automatic.  

 6       Q.     Semi-automatic?  

 7       A.     Yeah.  

 8       Q.     What brand?  

 9       A.     A Remington.  

10       Q.     Remington?  

11       A.     Yeah.  

12       Q.     Do you know what the model number is?  

13       A.     Model seven -- 7200.  

14       Q.     7200?  

15       A.     Yeah.  

16       Q.     Okay.  It's a semi-auto?  

17       A.     Yeah.  

18       Q.     Okay.  So you'd had to put the clip in, pull

19   the slide back?  

20       A.     Right.  

21       Q.     And you let it go?  

22       A.     Yeah.  

23       Q.     Did you let it go?  

24       A.     Yep.  

25       Q.     Okay.  

 1       A.     As he was approaching me.  

 2       Q.     Okay.  

 3       A.     Threatening me with the ax.  

 4       Q.     Okay.  Okay.  Then what happened?  

 5       A.     So as he approached me and --  

 6       Q.     So at this point, you know the rifle is

 7   loaded?  

 8       A.     Right.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  

10       A.     Right.  And as he approached me, threatening

11   me with the ax, I gave him a warning shot in the leg as

12   he approached me swinging the ax at me.  

13       Q.     So you shot him in the leg?  

14       A.     Yes, sir.  

15       Q.     Okay.  Which leg?  

16       A.     I believe it was the right leg.  

17       Q.     Okay.  And where were you standing when you

18   fired that first shot?  

19       A.     Right beside my truck.  

20       Q.     Like had you backed up at all, were you

21   right next to -- were you still right by the door?  

22       A.     Pretty much the same spot.  

23       Q.     Which is where?  

24       A.     Right by the passenger's side door.  

25       Q.     Right by the passenger's side door.  And

 1   where was he when you fired the first shot?  

 2       A.     Coming around the back side of my truck.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  Had he turned the corner yet?  

 4       A.     Yep.  He was coming around and up that side

 5   of my truck.  

 6       Q.     So how far away do you think he was?  

 7       A.     He was probably 15, 20 feet away.  

 8       Q.     Fifteen, 20 feet away?  

 9       A.     Yeah.  Coming -- closing in on me.  

10       Q.     Okay.  Was he walking, running?  What was he

11   doing, you know, when you first shot?  

12       A.     He was running.  

13       Q.     Was he -- where was he standing?  

14       A.     He was running.  

15       Q.     Running?  

16       A.     Walking, running towards me.  Fast.  Coming

17   at me, closing in.

18       Q.     Which one, walking or running?  

19       A.     He was walking very fast.  

20       Q.     Walking fast.

21       A.     Borderline running.  More like a jog, you

22   know, chasing me.  

23       Q.     Okay.  And had he cleared the back of the

24   truck?  In other words, could you see all of him or was

25   some of him obscured by the back of the truck?  

 1       A.     I could see all of him coming at me.  

 2       Q.     Okay.  All right.  

 3       A.     I was -- he was closing in on me with the

 4   ax, coming at me.  

 5       Q.     So you think you shot him in the right leg?  

 6       A.     I think so.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  And then what happens then?  

 8       A.     So then he -- after that happens, he

 9   continues to chase me around the vehicle, running

10   around, circles.  

11       Q.     So he continues forward after you shot him

12   in the leg?  

13       A.     Trying -- trying -- yes, sir.  

14       Q.     Did you -- do you know if you hit him or

15   not?  

16       A.     I didn't -- I didn't know if -- I wasn't

17   sure if I had hit him or not.  All's I know is I was

18   trying to stop him from getting at me and my dog and my

19   truck.  

20       Q.     Did he seem like he was hit?  

21       A.     I think he -- it seemed like he was hit.  

22       Q.     Why?  What did he do?  

23       A.     Because he had started limping a little bit.  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     But then it still didn't slow him down any.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  

 2       A.     He still continued to come at me.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  When you say he was chasing you,

 4   what -- did you move or --  

 5       A.     Yeah, at that point I stepped back because

 6   he was still coming towards me --  

 7       Q.     Okay.  

 8       A.     -- so I ran around my truck and he ran

 9   around -- ran around my truck chasing me with the ax

10   still, and I said stop, you know, I told him to stop, I

11   said don't, don't, don't.  I was scared, scared for my

12   life because he was coming at me with a ax, and at that

13   point he still continued to chase me around my truck,

14   and I believed he was trying to injure me.  

15       Q.     Okay.  

16       A.     He was telling me he was going to.  He was

17   smashing my truck.  

18       Q.     All right.  But let's just stick with what

19   he actually did and what happened.  Okay?  

20       A.     Right.  

21       Q.     So he's coming at you, you shoot him in the

22   leg --  

23       A.     Right.  

24       Q.     -- and then you go where?  

25       A.     I go around the front side of my truck.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  You go around the front side of your

 2   truck?  

 3       A.     Yeah.  

 4       Q.     And what does he do?  

 5       A.     He follows me --  

 6       Q.     Okay.  

 7       A.     -- chasing me around --  

 8       Q.     And then what happened?  

 9       A.     -- limping.  So I tell him to stop and to

10   not follow me --  

11       Q.     Okay.  

12       A.     -- leave me alone.  You know, I was

13   scared --  

14       Q.     Okay.  

15       A.     -- worried, what was going to happen with

16   that ax.  So he -- he --

17       Q.     Okay.  Does he -- does he still have the ax

18   in his hand?  

19       A.     Yes, sir.  

20       Q.     Okay.  

21       A.     Yes, sir.  So I believed he was trying to --

22   trying to hurt me with it, and he wouldn't stop chasing

23   me, kept following me around the truck, following me

24   around.  

25       Q.     Well, when you say that, I mean, how far

 1   around the truck did he follow you?  

 2       A.     All the way around.  We went all the way

 3   around the truck.  

 4       Q.     How many -- like all the way around?  

 5       A.     He kept trying to do --  

 6       Q.     Did he --  

 7       A.     -- he kept trying to dodge -- dodge around

 8   trying to get at me, trying to come at me and wasn't

 9   presenting me with any type of -- after he had been hit,

10   he wasn't presenting me with any type of -- he was

11   trying to sneak around and try to get at me from behind,

12   basically what was trying to happen, but when he came at

13   me the last time --  

14       Q.     I mean, did he change direction, you know

15   what I mean, or did you go around the truck one way

16   or --  

17       A.     Pretty much.  He was -- he was following me

18   around, and once I -- once I came back around the other

19   side, he switched and went back around -- he switched

20   directions.  

21       Q.     He switched directions?  

22       A.     Yes.  

23       Q.     Okay.  

24       A.     And he came after me again.  

25       Q.     I mean, how many times -- I mean, how

 1   long -- how many times did you go around the truck?  

 2       A.     It was probably, I don't know, once.  

 3       Q.     Once?  

 4       A.     Once and a half.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  

 6       A.     Twice.  But he was still on -- on my trail

 7   so --  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     When he presented -- when he came at me

10   again with the ax, I shot him again.  

11       Q.     Okay.  Where were you then?  

12       A.     I was right in the same spot as where we had

13   started.  

14       Q.     Same spot as you started?  

15       A.     Yeah --  

16       Q.     By the passenger --  

17       A.     -- because we had been around the truck and

18   then --  

19       Q.     And where was he this time?  

20       A.     Right at the back end of my truck.  

21       Q.     Back end of the truck again?  

22       A.     Yep.  There was another car parked there

23   beside us, too, and he ended up right there.  

24       Q.     So you shot him again?  

25       A.     Yes, sir.  

 1       Q.     And where did you shoot him this time?  

 2       A.     It was in his general direction.  I was

 3   going for his leg, just try to wound him, try to keep

 4   him slowed down so he wouldn't come at me.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  

 6       A.     That's what I was trying to do.  

 7       Q.     And did you hit him this time?  

 8       A.     I believe I did.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  Where did you hit him?  

10       A.     I'm not sure.  

11       Q.     You're not sure?  Well, what happened then?  

12       A.     At that point, he went down, and everybody

13   that was there scattered, and the police were called and

14   now I'm here.  

15       Q.     Okay.  So he went down at that point?  

16       A.     He did, yes, sir.  

17       Q.     Okay.  And what did you do after he went

18   down?  

19       A.     I made sure that he -- I made sure that I

20   wasn't going to be threatened any longer and --  

21       Q.     What -- how did you do that?  

22       A.     I went up to him and made sure that he

23   wasn't going to come after me anymore.  

24       Q.     What did you do?  

25       A.     That's it.  I looked at him, made sure he

 1   was down, and then I went to my truck to find out if my

 2   dog was all right.  

 3       Q.     Did you check -- I mean, you say make sure

 4   he was down.  Like what did you -- what did you do to

 5   him?  

 6       A.     Nothing.  I just made -- I didn't -- I was

 7   making sure that he wasn't going to get back up and come

 8   after me again with the --  

 9       Q.     Okay.  Did you touch him?  

10       A.     No.  

11       Q.     Did you check for a pulse, did you --  

12       A.     No, sir.  

13       Q.     Okay.  And what was his condition?  

14       A.     I didn't want to get anywhere near him

15   because --  

16       Q.     What was his condition at that point?  

17       A.     I don't think good.  

18       Q.     Okay.  And how close did you come?  

19       A.     I just got close enough to see --  

20       Q.     Like how (inaudible)?  

21       A.     -- make sure -- make sure that I wasn't

22   going to turn around to go get my dog and make sure he

23   wasn't going to get up and try to stab me with that ax

24   again.  

25       Q.     Okay.  How close?  How many feet?  

 1       A.     Probably five.  

 2       Q.     Five feet?  

 3       A.     Yes.  

 4       Q.     Okay.  So after you check him -- how long do

 5   you check him for?  How long are you over there?  

 6       A.     Not long.  Not long.  

 7       Q.     Like how long?  

 8       A.     My concern was with my dog, to make sure my

 9   dog was all right because there was broken glass

10   everywhere.  

11       Q.     Okay.  And so how long do you think you were

12   over by him?  

13       A.     Not long at all.  

14       Q.     Like -- give me a time.  30 seconds?  A

15   minute?  

16       A.     Less than that.  Two seconds.  

17       Q.     Two seconds.  Okay.  

18       A.     I didn't want to be anywhere near him at

19   that point because I didn't know if he was going to get

20   back up and try to chase me again swinging -- swinging

21   that ax at me.  

22       Q.     What did you do -- so after you leave him,

23   what do you do then?  

24       A.     Went to check on my dog.  

25       Q.     Okay.  And then what?  

 1       A.     Went over to my truck and made sure that, A,

 2   he was all right, but I never found him.  

 3       Q.     The dog.

 4       A.     I'm not sure what happened with him.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  And then what did you do?  So the dog

 6   wasn't in the truck anymore?  

 7       A.     I don't believe he was.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  What did you do then?  

 9       A.     I didn't see him.  I'm worried about him

10   actually.  At that point, the cops came, police came.  

11       Q.     How long after?  

12       A.     Pretty -- pretty quick after.  It was

13   probably less than ten minutes.  Five minutes.  

14       Q.     Okay.  So what are you doing in the five

15   minutes that you're waiting or that the police aren't

16   there?  

17       A.     I was just -- just standing there.  I didn't

18   know what -- I was shocked.  I didn't know what had

19   happened.  

20       Q.     Did anybody go over by the -- the guy who

21   was shot?  

22       A.     I don't think so.  

23       Q.     Nobody did?  Did anybody start doing any

24   kind of CPR or trying to help him or anything like that?  

25       A.     No.  

 1       Q.     Did anybody move him?  

 2       A.     No.  He just -- where he was is where he

 3   was.  

 4       Q.     Where was the ax?  

 5       A.     The ax is right in his hand.  

 6       Q.     In his hand?  

 7       A.     Yeah.  He dropped it as soon as he hit the

 8   ground.  

 9       Q.     Was it still in his hand?  

10       A.     When he hit the ground?  

11       Q.     Yeah.  

12       A.     Yes, sir.  

13       Q.     How about after he was on the ground?  

14       A.     After he was on the ground, it wasn't in his

15   hand.  

16       Q.     Okay.  Where was it?  

17       A.     Laying beside him.  

18       Q.     What did you do with the rifle?  

19       A.     Put the rifle in the truck.  

20       Q.     In the truck?  

21       A.     Yeah.  

22       Q.     Okay.  Where in the truck?  

23       A.     I believe it was in the front seat.  

24       Q.     Okay.  Is it still loaded?  

25       A.     I'm not sure exactly where --  

 1       Q.     Was it still loaded when you put it in the

 2   front seat?  

 3       A.     There probably was a couple shots left in

 4   there.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  

 6       A.     I don't -- if I put a whole clip in there

 7   then --  

 8       Q.     Okay.  Well, did you put a whole clip in?  

 9       A.     At -- initially, yes.  

10       Q.     Initially, yeah.  

11       A.     Yes.  

12       Q.     And you're saying the spot wasn't full with

13   five rounds.  You just told me it was.  

14       A.     Right.  

15       Q.     Okay.  Yes?  

16       A.     Right.  

17       Q.     So nobody went over there to help him out or

18   do anything like that?  

19       A.     No.  I wanted to stay as far away from him

20   as I could.  I didn't know what he was capable of, what

21   was going to happen.  

22       Q.     Okay.  

23       A.     I was scared shitless to be honest with you.  

24       Q.     All right.  

25       A.     Never had anybody run at me with an ax

 1   before in my life.  

 2       Q.     Okay.  

 3       A.     I was scared.  I didn't know what to do.  He

 4   was a threat to my brother, threat to my dog, threat to

 5   me, smashed my property.  

 6       Q.     The second time you shot him, where do you

 7   think you hit him?  

 8       A.     I'm not positive.  I was -- I was shooting

 9   for his leg, trying to stop him, slow him down just to

10   keep him away from me.  

11       Q.     Was he -- how was he positioned to you?  

12       A.     Running at me.  

13       Q.     So --  

14       A.     Still moving at me.  

15       Q.     So was he facing you?  

16       A.     Yes, sir.  

17       Q.     When you fired the last shot, he was facing

18   you?  

19       A.     Yes, sir.  

20       Q.     Okay.  You couldn't see where he was

21   bleeding from?  I mean, you have no idea where he was

22   hit?  

23       A.     I didn't want to be anywhere near him,

24   Officer.  I was scared out of my gourd.  He was coming

25   at me.  He's a big guy with a ax.  I didn't want to be

 1   anywhere near him.  

 2       Q.     Okay.

 3       A.     He was coming at me and threatening me,

 4   smashing my truck.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  So you don't know where you hit him?  

 6       A.     I have no idea.  

 7       Q.     Any -- any guess?  

 8       A.     I have no idea, Officer.  

 9       Q.     After you shot him that last time, how long

10   did it take before he went down on the ground?  

11       A.     He went down pretty quick.  Stopped --  

12       Q.     Like how quick?  

13       A.     -- stopped him right there.  He didn't go

14   much further.  

15       Q.     Okay.  

16       A.     He was coming towards me and he stopped

17   right there.  

18       Q.     How many times did you shoot in total?  

19       A.     Two.  

20       Q.     Just two times?  

21       A.     Two times.  Yes, sir.  

22       Q.     You're sure?  

23       A.     Yes, sir.  

24       Q.     Positive?  

25       A.     Positive.  

 1       Q.     So when we look at the magazine or the clip

 2   in the rifle, there should be three more rounds left?  

 3       A.     Right.  But I'm not sure how many rounds

 4   were actually in that clip.  

 5       Q.     Why's that?  

 6       A.     I'm not positive.  I always keep a cartri --

 7   the clip loaded.  I don't know how many shots were in

 8   there actually today.  Understand that?  

 9       Q.     Um hum.  

10       A.     I shot twice.  I don't know how many shots

11   are left in there.  

12       Q.     Okay.  

13       A.     There could be four -- I always keep the

14   mag -- the clip loaded with some --  

15       Q.     Okay.  

16       A.     -- because I'm always -- I scout all the

17   time.  I'm a deer hunter, coyote season.  

18       Q.     Okay.  

19       A.     I shoot coyotes.  I always have a clip

20   loaded.  Not the -- not the actual rifle but the clip.  

21       Q.     Okay.  

22       A.     I always have cartridges in it.  

23       Q.     All right.  All right.  This is -- this is

24   important.  Okay?  And you got to understand.  Okay?  

25   Obviously I know that -- I mean, there's a reason why

 1   this guy was there and he was that mad.  I mean, this --

 2   this is -- didn't just happen out of the blue.  Okay?  

 3   This didn't just -- like all of a sudden this madman

 4   showed up at the field coming after you guys and there's

 5   no history here.  Okay?  

 6       A.     Right.  They --  

 7       Q.     Okay?  Let me finish.  

 8       A.     Yeah.  

 9       Q.     Okay?  Now, what you're looking at is a

10   whole lot bigger than whatever else -- whatever the

11   reason was.  Okay?  I don't know if it was drug stuff, I

12   don't know if it was feuding stuff, I don't know if it

13   was over females.  I don't know what it was right now.  

14   Okay?  But whatever it was, okay, is a lot less than

15   what you're looking at right now.  Okay?  

16             And you need to tell me exactly what was

17   going on.  Okay?  If you want to help yourself, okay,

18   you need to come completely clean on this.  Okay?  If

19   you're going to claim self-defense and that -- you know,

20   that you were protecting yourself, all right, you need

21   to come clean.  You can't hold back to protect your

22   brother or your friend or whoever else because you're --

23   you're sitting on a pretty hot seat right now.  Okay?  

24       A.     I understand that.  

25       Q.     All right.  So what is going on that caused

 1   this guy to show up?  

 2       A.     I'm not --  

 3       Q.     And you better tell me.  

 4       A.     I'm not sure, Officer.  

 5       Q.     All right.  Don't tell me you're not sure.  

 6   He didn't just show up.  

 7       A.     He obviously had a problem with one of the

 8   kids that I was with.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  What was the problem?  

10       A.     I don't -- I'm not sure.  I don't know what

11   it was.  

12       Q.     Nobody told you anything?  Nobody told

13   you --  

14       A.     No, sir.  

15       Q.     -- what the problem was?  

16       A.     No, sir.  All's I know is that he was

17   looking for the kid that was with me, Tristan.  

18       Q.     He was looking for Tristan?  

19       A.     Yep.  

20       Q.     Okay.  

21       A.     He had hit -- he had hit Gib in the face.  

22       Q.     He hit who?  

23       A.     Gib Bastion (phonetically).  

24       Q.     Who's Gib?  

25       A.     In Springfield.  

 1       Q.     Gib who?  

 2       A.     Gib.  I'm not sure of his last name.  

 3       Q.     When -- when -- he hit Gib where?  

 4       A.     He hit Gib in Springfield.  

 5       Q.     What do you think his last name is?  

 6       A.     I'm not sure.  I don't know him all that

 7   well.  

 8       Q.     When did that happen?  

 9       A.     Happened yesterday.  Cops showed up, I

10   believe.  

11       Q.     Hit him in the face?  

12       A.     Yeah.  He knocked Gib out, I guess.  I

13   don't -- I don't know the whole situation that well.  

14   All's I know is I was with him and this kid showed up

15   looking for --  

16       Q.     You were with who?  

17       A.     Tristan.  

18       Q.     Okay.  So you were with Tristan.  So why

19   does he have a problem with Tristan?  

20       A.     I'm not sure.  You know, I couldn't tell

21   you, Officer.  I don't know.  All's I know is that he

22   showed up and he was coming after us with an ax.  That's

23   it.  That's all I know.  

24       Q.     So if he hits Gib yesterday in Springfield,

25   why is he after Tristan?  

 1       A.     I -- I don't even know who this kid is,

 2   Officer.  No clue who he is.  

 3       Q.     So he shows up, he's after Tristan, and how

 4   do you know he's after Tristan?  

 5       A.     I don't -- I don't know he's after Tristan.  

 6   He was after somebody that was with me obviously because

 7   I don't even know who he is.  

 8       Q.     Well, why do you think it's Tristan?  

 9       A.     I don't even know who he is.  

10       Q.     Okay.  Why do you think he's after Tristan?  

11       A.     Because Tristan had been getting threats

12   from this kid.  Tristan --  

13       Q.     When?  

14       A.     -- Tristan was getting threatened by him.  

15       Q.     When?  

16       A.     Earlier today, yesterday.  

17       Q.     Okay.  So obviously Tristan told you about

18   that or somebody told you about it?  

19       A.     Yeah, he told me he was being threatened,

20   but he didn't tell me why.  He -- all's he said was that

21   he was getting threats from this kid and --  

22       Q.     When did he tell you that?  

23       A.     He told me that today.  

24       Q.     Okay.  When?  

25       A.     Earlier today.  

 1       Q.     Earlier today?  

 2       A.     When he -- when this kid showed up, I was

 3   like what's going on here, and he told me what was going

 4   on.  

 5       Q.     He told you what?  

 6       A.     He told me that he -- I think he's looking

 7   for me, I think he's looking for me, and he was standing

 8   out there screaming.  

 9       Q.     Who was screaming?  

10       A.     That --  

11       Q.     The guy?  

12       A.     Yeah, the guy.  

13       Q.     Vinny?  

14       A.     I'm not sure who he is.  

15       Q.     You think it's Vinny?  

16       A.     Yeah.  I don't know who he is.  

17       Q.     What -- what exactly did Tristan -- and you

18   know, I'm trying to help you out here.  

19       A.     I know.  I understand that.  

20       Q.     Okay?  I am.  

21       A.     I understand that.  

22       Q.     Believe it or not, I am trying to help you

23   out here, and you can't hold back on me because you know

24   what?  Do you think this is the only conversation that's

25   going to happen?  Or do you think we're going to talk to

 1   everybody involved?  

 2       A.     Everybody.  

 3       Q.     Exactly.  

 4       A.     Yeah.  

 5       Q.     So if I find out you're holding back on me,

 6   who's going to be the one looking bad and who's the one

 7   holding the rifle that just shot a guy?  

 8       A.     I know.  I'm not --  

 9       Q.     Okay?  So don't hold back on me.  

10       A.     I'm not trying to hold back --  

11       Q.     I'm trying to help you.  

12       A.     I'm not trying to hold back on you, Officer.  

13       Q.     Believe it or not, I am trying to help you.  

14       A.     It was self-defense, Officer.  

15       Q.     I'm not saying it wasn't.  What I'm saying

16   is you need to tell me everything.  

17       A.     I could be dead right now.  

18       Q.     I'm not saying it wasn't self-defense.  

19       A.     Could be dead right now.  

20       Q.     But what you need to do is tell me the whole

21   story.  

22       A.     I don't know the complete story, Officer.  

23       Q.     Well, tell me what you do know.  

24       A.     All's I know is that he was looking for --

25   looking for them and I happened to be a part of it and

 1   he came after me with an ax.  That's all I know.  

 2       Q.     Well, what did Tristan -- exactly what did

 3   Tristan tell you earlier about the problems he was

 4   having with this guy?  

 5       A.     He said that -- he said that he was after

 6   him.  He said that --  

 7       Q.     For what?  

 8       A.     -- he was a madman, steroid freak, they had

 9   problems with him --  

10       Q.     What problems?  

11       A.     -- was chasing him.  

12       Q.     What problems?  

13       A.     I'm not sure exactly what the problems were.  

14       Q.     He -- listen, I know how people talk.  Okay?  

15   People don't just say I'm having a problem with that

16   guy.  They say I'm having a problem because X, Y, Z,

17   because this happened.  You don't just say hey, I'm

18   having a problem with -- with this guy.  

19       A.     I don't know what his problem was with him.  

20   He ripped him off or something.  I don't know what

21   happened exactly.  

22       Q.     All right.  We're starting to get there.  

23       A.     I don't know -- Officer, I don't know

24   exactly what happened.  I'm --

25       Q.     But you know something about what happened?  

 1       A.     -- I don't hang out with these people

 2   normally.  

 3       Q.     You know something about what happened.  

 4       A.     All's I know is I got chased with a ax.  

 5       Q.     I'm not saying you didn't.  

 6       A.     I'm lucky to be alive right now.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  I'm not saying you didn't get chased

 8   with an ax.  What I'm saying is you need to tell me what

 9   the story is behind this.  

10       A.     I'm not sure of the story, Officer.  I'm not

11   sure why he was looking for him.  I don't know.  I got

12   caught in the middle of this as a bad scene.  

13       Q.     You just told me that Tristan told you that

14   he was having a problem with this guy.  

15       A.     Yeah.  

16       Q.     What was the problem?  

17       A.     He came into his house.  

18       Q.     Who came into his house?  Who came into

19   whose house?  

20       A.     Vinny came -- I think Vinny came into his

21   house.  

22       Q.     Into Tristan's house?  

23       A.     I think so.  

24       Q.     Okay.  When?  

25       A.     I think the other day.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  Came into his house for what?  

 2       A.     I'm not sure what for.  He came -- walked up

 3   into his house.  I don't know if it was for money or

 4   what it was for.  I don't know.  Not sure.  And all's I

 5   know is that yesterday -- I think it was yesterday.  I

 6   don't know.  I -- I wasn't a part of it, but this kid

 7   Gib, he got hit by this kid Vinny, knocked out, and the

 8   cops showed up at the scene, and he was released and

 9   everything, but I guess he's like a psychotic person or

10   something.  

11       Q.     Who was released?  

12       A.     Vinny.  

13       Q.     Okay.  

14       A.     After hitting this kid.  

15       Q.     Okay.  

16       A.     So then Tristan was scared because he

17   thought -- Tristan thought that he was coming after him

18   because he showed up --  

19       Q.     Because why?  

20       A.     Huh?  

21       Q.     Because why?  Was he with Gib the other day

22   or what -- what was going on?  

23       A.     Because he was with Gib, yeah.  

24       Q.     So he was --  

25       A.     Apparently this kid didn't like Gib and

 1   Tristan, so he felt the need to try and chase him down

 2   and beat him up or something, so then today Tristan was

 3   getting threats from this kid, and this kid slashed some

 4   other kid's tires, one of his friend's tires running

 5   around.  

 6       Q.     Whose?  

 7       A.     Tristan's friends.  

 8       Q.     Who?  

 9       A.     Ben -- Ben Millay.  

10       Q.     Ben who?  

11       A.     Ben Millay.  

12       Q.     Millay?  

13       A.     Yeah.  

14       Q.     Vinny slashed Ben Millay's tires?  

15       A.     Yes.  

16       Q.     When?  

17       A.     I think today.  

18       Q.     Where does Ben live?  

19       A.     Ben lives in Springfield.  

20       Q.     How do you spell his last name?  

21       A.     Millay, M-i-l-l-a-y.  

22       Q.     Okay.  

23       A.     All's I know is I got caught in the middle

24   of a bad -- a bad scene that I didn't even know I was

25   getting into and at the point where I got chased with an

 1   ax and I thought that I was in jeopardy.  I did what I

 2   had to do to not -- to not be there.  

 3       Q.     So if he's after Tristan --  

 4       A.     Right.  

 5       Q.     -- how do you get in the middle of it?  

 6       A.     Because he came running at everybody with

 7   the ax that was there.  

 8       Q.     Okay.

 9       A.     Whoever was near him, he was coming after.  

10   That was it.  

11       Q.     Okay.  But why does he start focusing on

12   you?  

13       A.     That's -- your question is good as mine.  I

14   have no idea.  All's I know is I was scared and I wanted

15   to get in my truck.  

16       Q.     Where did Tristan go?  

17       A.     Tristan was -- there was a whole crowd full

18   of people.  Everybody was -- everybody was --  

19       Q.     Where'd he go?  When -- when you're dealing

20   with this guy who's after Tristan, where did Tristan go?  

21       A.     They were -- everybody was running away from

22   him because he had a ax.  

23       Q.     Okay.  

24       A.     So I was just trying to get away from him

25   too.  I was just trying to do my best to get away from

 1   this kid --  

 2       Q.     Okay.  

 3       A.     -- with the ax.  

 4       Q.     So why didn't you run away?  

 5       A.     Why didn't I run?  

 6       Q.     Yes.  

 7       A.     I tried to get in my truck, to get in my

 8   truck where my dog was and everything, and he started

 9   smashing my truck.  

10       Q.     Why -- why did you go for your truck?  Why

11   not just run away like everybody else?  

12       A.     Because that's where -- I was closest to my

13   truck.  

14       Q.     Okay.  

15       A.     I wanted to get inside my truck because he

16   was coming after us.  I ran to my truck, and I wanted to

17   get into my truck to try to be inside of somewhere so he

18   wouldn't hit me with the ax.  

19       Q.     So were you there yesterday when this Gib

20   guy gets hit?  

21       A.     No.  I wasn't a part of any of that.  I

22   don't know nothing about any of that.  

23       Q.     Was Tristan there?  

24       A.     I think -- Tristan spoke with the police, I

25   believe.  

 1       Q.     Yesterday?  

 2       A.     Yes.  

 3       Q.     So he was there?  

 4       A.     Yes.  I believe.  

 5       Q.     Have you had any dealings with Vinny before?  

 6       A.     No.  I never met him before in my life.  

 7       Q.     You've never met Vinny?  

 8       A.     Never in my life.  Never.  

 9       Q.     Is there any discussion between you and

10   Tristan or your brother or anybody else about if Vinny's

11   going to show up after one of you guys today?  

12       A.     No, sir, not at all.  

13       Q.     In other words, were you guys expecting him

14   to show up somewhere?  

15       A.     No, sir.  

16       Q.     No?  

17       A.     No, sir.  Wasn't expecting nothing.  I got

18   caught in the middle of a bad -- a bad scene and I was

19   scared.  

20       Q.     So again what -- what is the problem between

21   Tristan and Vinny?  

22       A.     I'm not sure.  I'm not sure what their

23   problem is.  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     I don't know what their problem is, but

 1   obviously he has a problem with Tristan and anybody else

 2   that's around him.  

 3       Q.     Now, I don't know if you're -- you're trying

 4   to protect Tristan because he's involved in drugs --  

 5       A.     I'm not trying to protect --  

 6       Q.     -- because there was some kind of rip-off

 7   that happened last night or --  

 8       A.     I'm not trying to protect Tristan

 9   whatsoever.  

10       Q.     -- some kind of rip-off, maybe he ripped off

11   Vinny or what happened, okay, but what I'm telling you

12   and I don't think you're getting, okay, is you're in a

13   whole lot more trouble or potential trouble than any

14   drug rip-off or whatever else is going on.  Okay?  And

15   if you're trying to protect Tristan, you're being stupid

16   because you're the one in the hottest seat in the state

17   right now.  Okay?  

18             I'm trying to help you out.  I'm trying

19   to -- I'm trying to get it through your head, okay, that

20   the time to start protecting people is over.  The time

21   to tell me the whole truth is now.  That's what I'm

22   trying to get --  

23       A.     I was protecting myself, Officer.  

24       Q.     That's what I'm trying to get through to

25   you.  I don't think you're quite getting it.  

 1       A.     I was protecting myself, Officer.  

 2       Q.     Why is Vinny there after Tristan?  

 3       A.     I'm not sure.  I -- I don't know -- he's

 4   from Boston or something.  

 5       Q.     I don't care if he's from Boston.  He's

 6   there for some reason after Tristan.  I don't care if

 7   he's from the moon.  

 8       A.     I'm not sure why.  

 9       Q.     Why is he there after Tristan?  

10       A.     I don't know why.  I don't know why he was

11   after Tristan.  I don't have any clue why he's after

12   Tristan.  

13       Q.     Well, yes, you do have a clue because you

14   just told me that there was a problem yesterday and that

15   Tristan told you that there was a problem --  

16       A.     Yeah, there was a problem with --  

17       Q.     -- and that Vinny slashed this Ben Millay's

18   tires, so obviously there's stuff going on --  

19       A.     I'm not sure what's go --  

20       Q.     -- so don't tell me you don't have any clue.  

21       A.     Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with it.  

22       Q.     And you just told me that Vinny ended up

23   inside Tristan's house.  

24       A.     He did.  He walked in there.  

25       Q.     Okay.  And when did that happen?  

 1       A.     I think two days ago.  

 2       Q.     Okay.  Where does Tristan live?  

 3       A.     In Chester.  

 4       Q.     Where?  

 5       A.     Main Street.  

 6       Q.     Where on Main Street?  

 7       A.     I'm not sure where.  He lives --  

 8       Q.     Isn't he like a good friend of yours?  

 9       A.     -- right by the green.  Right by the green.  

10       Q.     Which house?  

11       A.     Right by the green, there's a apartment

12   building right there, across from the green.  

13       Q.     Apartment building across from the green?  

14       A.     Yeah.  

15       Q.     Which apartment?  

16       A.     I'm not sure what the number is.  

17       Q.     Tell me how to get to it.  Do I go in --

18   which door, the apartment building?  

19       A.     You go towards the green and take a left

20   before the green.  

21       Q.     Yeah.  

22       A.     And take your next left into the parking

23   lot, and there's a door on the porch, goes up a set of

24   stairs.  

25       Q.     Do you go up the stairs?  

 1       A.     There's two doors and you go up a set of

 2   stairs, yeah.  

 3       Q.     Are the stairs inside or outside?  

 4       A.     Inside.  

 5       Q.     So you go inside?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  

 7       Q.     You go upstairs?  

 8       A.     Yeah.  

 9       Q.     And then where did you go after you go up

10   the stairs?  

11       A.     You're there.  

12       Q.     How many apartments are upstairs?  

13       A.     Just one.  

14       Q.     Just one?  

15       A.     Yeah.  

16       Q.     So there's one upstairs apartment?  

17       A.     Yeah.  

18       Q.     Where is Tristan now?  

19       A.     I have no idea.  

20       Q.     Was he there when the police got there?  

21       A.     I believe so.  He had to have been.  

22       Q.     I mean, did he leave or -- before the police

23   got there or was he still there?  

24       A.     Must have left.  

25       Q.     I'm asking you.  

 1       A.     Every -- every -- everybody scattered.  He

 2   pro -- he had to have been still there or he ran.  

 3       Q.     I don't know.  I'm asking you.  Did he leave

 4   or did he stay?  

 5       A.     He must have ran.  

 6       Q.     Why?  

 7       A.     I don't know.  I was just protecting myself,

 8   Officer.  

 9       Q.     How about Corey?  Where is Corey?  

10       A.     I'm not sure where he is.  I been here for

11   five hours.  

12       Q.     How about Jerry?  Did he stay at the scene

13   to talk to the police?  

14       A.     Yeah, Jerry did.  

15       Q.     Okay.  Why didn't Tristan stay at the scene?  

16       A.     I'm not sure.  I wasn't there when --  

17       Q.     Well, you were there until the police got

18   there.  

19       A.     I know, but they told me just to get on the

20   ground.  I don't know what happened to the rest of them

21   there.  

22       Q.     Okay.  But what happened before the police

23   got there?  Did Tristan stay or did he leave?  

24       A.     I'm not sure what happened to him.  

25       Q.     Because there's like a five-minute period,

 1   you're telling me, before the police got there.  

 2       A.     There was.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  So what was Tristan doing?  He's the

 4   guy that this guy was actually after.  What's he doing?  

 5   He's your friend.  

 6       A.     Yeah.  There was a whole -- yeah, there was

 7   a whole crowd full of people and everybody just

 8   scattered.  They were all back -- running away from this

 9   kid with the ax.  

10       Q.     Okay.  So you're standing there.  Was

11   anybody with you at this point?  

12       A.     No.  I was getting chased before everything

13   happened.  

14       Q.     No, no, no, after -- after you shoot Vinny

15   and Vinny goes down --  

16       A.     Right.  

17       Q.     -- who's -- who's with you at that point?  

18       A.     Nobody was with me.  

19       Q.     Okay.  Did anybody come over, see how you're

20   doing?  

21       A.     Everybody just scattered.  

22       Q.     Everybody just scattered.  

23       A.     Everyone was gone.  

24       Q.     Nobody came over to say like you okay or

25   anything like that?  

 1       A.     There was a -- there was a couple people

 2   there, but it all happened so quickly and the --  

 3       Q.     Well, your buddy Tristan is the guy who

 4   got -- the one the guy's after --  

 5       A.     I know.  

 6       Q.     -- so he doesn't come over to you and say

 7   like thanks for stepping up and taking care of me?  

 8       A.     No, he didn't.  

 9       Q.     Well, where'd he go?  

10       A.     I have no idea.  Because he was after me.  I

11   don't know why he was after me at that time, but he was

12   originally after Tristan, but then he came running at

13   us, and I happened to be at the back of the pack, and I

14   tried to get in my truck and he went after me because I

15   was closest to him at that point.  I never met this kid

16   before in my life, ever before in my life.  I don't even

17   know who he is.  He came at me with an ax.  That's all I

18   know, Officer.  

19       Q.     No, no, no, you know a lot more than that.  

20       A.     I don't.  

21       Q.     Yes, you do.  Why did Tristan take off?  

22       A.     I don't know.  

23       Q.     Did Tristan report to the police that Vinny

24   came into his house?  

25       A.     I believe he did --  

 1       Q.     You think he did?  

 2       A.     -- yesterday when he talked to them, yeah.  

 3       Q.     When did he report it to the police?  

 4       A.     Yesterday afternoon.  

 5       Q.     Did Vinny break his way in or just come in

 6   or what?  

 7       A.     I'm pretty sure he just walked in.  I

 8   don't -- I don't know the exact details.  I wasn't

 9   there.  I'm trying to help you out, man.  I don't --  

10       Q.     No, I'm trying to help you --  

11       A.     I know.  

12       Q.     -- but you're not helping yourself.  That's

13   the problem.  You're still trying to protect your

14   friends, okay, even though you're the one that's going

15   to be the one in trouble.  

16       A.     Self-defense, Officer.  He was trying to hit

17   me with an ax.  

18       Q.     People aren't going to buy self-defense

19   unless you tell me the whole story.  

20       A.     I don't know the whole story.  

21       Q.     Okay.  Do you understand that?  

22       A.     I got caught --

23       Q.     Do you understand that if you're going to --

24   if you're going to say self-defense, okay -- and I'm not

25   saying it wasn't.  Maybe it was.  Okay?  I'm just trying

 1   to get --  

 2       A.     He was trying to hit me with an ax.  

 3       Q.     I'm not saying it wasn't self-defense.  I'm

 4   just trying to get the whole story from you.  Okay?  But

 5   if you're going to say that it's self-defense, then you

 6   need to tell me the whole story.  Because if you don't

 7   and you hold back and you lie or you just leave stuff

 8   out, then when it comes out later, which it will, I

 9   guarantee you it will, then people aren't going to

10   believe you anymore because they're going to say well,

11   he was saying it's self-defense, but how come he didn't

12   tell us all this other stuff.  

13       A.     I'm telling you what I know.  It's only what

14   I know.  I got attacked with a hatchet.  

15       Q.     You know what?  You don't go to a softball

16   field and somebody out of the blue attacks you with a

17   hatchet.  

18       A.     That's what happened though.  

19       Q.     Okay?  But there was a reason he showed up.  

20   He didn't just show up out of the blue.  He showed up

21   for a reason.  

22       A.     Because this kid Tristan -- apparently he

23   was looking for Tristan.  And he punched Gib

24   yesterday --  

25       Q.     Okay.  

 1       A.     -- and we were there, so he showed up, and

 2   when we were trying to figure out what was going on, he

 3   came running at us with a -- a pickax trying to hit me

 4   with it, and anybody else in his way he was going to

 5   hit.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  

 7       A.     Anybody there.  

 8       Q.     All right.  

 9       A.     Didn't matter who it was.  He was coming

10   after anybody.  

11       Q.     I'm not saying you're -- that's not true.  

12       A.     It's fucked up (inaudible).  

13       Q.     I'm not saying that's not true.  I'm just

14   trying to -- you don't understand that I'm trying to

15   help you.  

16       A.     I do.  I want to help you in any way I can,

17   but I don't -- I only know so much of what happened.  

18   That's it.  I don't know anything else that happened.  I

19   know that I was going to get hit with a ax and I was

20   scared for my life, and I'm lucky to be sitting right

21   here right now.  I could have got hit in the head with a

22   ax.  I could be dead.  He was willing to hit anybody.  

23       Q.     Um hum.  

24       A.     My brother was right there, my friends.  

25       Q.     So describe exactly for me, exactly where

 1   that rifle was in your truck.  

 2       A.     It was in the back seat.  

 3       Q.     Um hum.  

 4       A.     Under the seat.  

 5       Q.     Was it in any kind of case or anything?  

 6       A.     No, sir.  

 7       Q.     And --  

 8       A.     I normally have a gun rack that I keep it

 9   on.  

10       Q.     And how many magazines or clips do you have

11   for it?  

12       A.     Just one.  Just one for hunting.  

13       Q.     For the gun under the back seat?  

14       A.     Yep.  

15       Q.     One clip in the -- in where?  

16       A.     I had it in the glove box.  I always keep a

17   clip.  

18       Q.     Now, it's pretty early to be scoping for

19   deer.  

20       A.     No, I scout year-round.  

21       Q.     Scout year-round?  

22       A.     Yeah.  

23       Q.     Big deer hunter?  

24       A.     Big deer hunter.  

25       Q.     Yeah.  You a bow hunter, too, or --  

 1       A.     Yes, sir.  

 2       Q.     Why are you carrying a rifle if you're just

 3   scouting?  

 4       A.     Because when I go through woods, I like to

 5   have a rifle with me because I hunt coyotes.  Coyotes

 6   are open year-round.  Shoot coyotes, shoot any time of

 7   the year.  

 8       Q.     Do you have a hunting license?  

 9       A.     I do.  

10       Q.     Does the rifle have a scope on it?  

11       A.     No.  

12       Q.     What kind of sights?  

13       A.     There's a open sight.  

14       Q.     Open sights?  

15       A.     Yes.  

16       Q.     What kind?  You know, are they like V -- you

17   know, a V sight, peep sight?  What is it?  

18       A.     Just a regular V sight.  

19       Q.     V sight?  

20       A.     Yeah.  

21       Q.     The first time you shoot, when he's coming

22   around the back of the truck and you say you shot --

23   hit -- shot him in the leg --  

24       A.     Yeah.  

25       Q.     -- how do you shoot the gun?  Like how do

 1   you position the gun to shoot it?  

 2       A.     I guess I don't understand the question.  

 3       Q.     Like where was the gun?  Did you shoulder

 4   it, did you shoot from the hip, did you -- I mean,

 5   there's all different ways you could have held it when

 6   you -- when you fired.  

 7       A.     I shouldered it.  

 8       Q.     Shouldered it?  

 9       A.     Yeah.  Because he was coming --  

10       Q.     Are you right- or left-handed?  

11       A.     Right-handed.  

12       Q.     You're right-handed?  So did you shoulder

13   it, you know, traditionally right up to your shoulder?  

14       A.     Right.  

15       Q.     Did you use a sight stain?  

16       A.     Yes.  

17       Q.     Okay.  And were you -- what was your body

18   positioning?  Were you standing, kneeling, sitting?  

19   What were you --  

20       A.     Standing.  

21       Q.     Yeah.  

22       A.     I was trying to get away from him.  

23       Q.     Okay.  So you were standing?  

24       A.     Yes.  

25       Q.     And you said you used the sights?  

 1       A.     Yes.  

 2       Q.     And you aimed for what?  

 3       A.     His leg.  

 4       Q.     Okay.  

 5       A.     Try to stop him from getting towards me.  

 6       Q.     And you said it was the right leg?  

 7       A.     Right leg, yeah.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  So after you shoot him in the leg,

 9   he's still able to advance on you?  

10       A.     Yes.  

11       Q.     Could you see if he was bleeding?  

12       A.     I couldn't.  I was scared shitless.  I was

13   scared out of my mind.  He was coming at me with an ax.  

14   All's I wanted to do was not get hit in the head with an

15   ax.  That's it.  That's it.  

16       Q.     Now, you know there's a lot of witnesses

17   there?  

18       A.     Yeah, there is.  

19       Q.     And you also know that we'll send -- we'll

20   check and see -- you know, we'll look at his wounds and

21   we'll be able to tell where the bullet went in and came

22   out and all that kind of stuff?  

23       A.     Yeah.  

24       Q.     Right?  

25       A.     Yep.  

 1       Q.     So we'll be able to tell exactly where he

 2   was hit?  

 3       A.     Yep.  

 4       Q.     And, you know, where the bullet entered and

 5   where the bullet exited and all that stuff?  

 6       A.     I'm telling you everything I know.  

 7       Q.     Are we going to find out that he has a

 8   bullet hole in his back?  

 9       A.     Shouldn't.  

10       Q.     Shouldn't?  

11       A.     Shouldn't, no.  He was coming at me.  

12       Q.     Did anyone else there have a gun?  

13       A.     No, no one else had a gun.  Nobody.  

14       Q.     Nobody else there had a gun?  

15       A.     No.  

16       Q.     Did anybody else there have any other kind

17   of weapon?  

18       A.     No.  Not that I know of.  

19       Q.     Did Tristan have a weapon?  

20       A.     No.  

21       Q.     Did Corey?  

22       A.     No.  

23       Q.     Did Jerry?  

24       A.     No.  Nobody else.  

25       Q.     No other rifles around?  

 1       A.     No, I had -- I had a .22 in my truck as

 2   well.  

 3       Q.     Okay.  

 4       A.     I keep that with me as well.  

 5       Q.     Where -- where was that?  

 6       A.     That was in the back seat as well.  

 7       Q.     Where in the back seat?  

 8       A.     Right at the seat.  

 9       Q.     Under the seat?  

10       A.     Yeah.  

11       Q.     What kind of .22 is that?  

12       A.     It's a Marlin, I believe.  

13       Q.     Marlin?  What kind of action?  

14       A.     It's a semi-automatic.  

15       Q.     Semi-automatic?  

16       A.     Use it for squirrel hunting, target

17   practicing.  

18       Q.     How many rounds does that hold?  

19       A.     Like 22.  

20       Q.     Was it loaded?  

21       A.     I don't think it was.  

22       Q.     You don't think it was?  

23       A.     I don't think so.  

24       Q.     Where in the back was it?  

25       A.     It was underneath the seat.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  So must have been next to the 30-06?  

 2       A.     Yeah.  

 3       Q.     Do you have .22 cartridges in the truck?  

 4       A.     Yes.  

 5       Q.     Where?  

 6       A.     It was in the back seat as well.  

 7       Q.     Where in the back seat?  

 8       A.     Back seat, underneath the seat.  

 9       Q.     Under the seat?  

10       A.     Yeah.  I believe.  

11       Q.     What is it -- what -- what do you have back

12   there?  Is it a magazine, is it just a box of .22's?  

13   What is it?  

14       A.     It was -- there was some loose shells back

15   there.  

16       Q.     How many?  

17       A.     I'm not sure.  Maybe ten.  

18       Q.     How many?  

19       A.     Maybe ten.  

20       Q.     Maybe ten?  

21       A.     Yeah.  

22       Q.     What kind of magazine does that have, the

23   .22?  In other words, how do you load it?  

24       A.     It's got a tubular magazine.  

25       Q.     Okay.  Is it one of the ones where you -- a

 1   little hole and you drop the shell -- the cartridge in

 2   and it drops down?  

 3       A.     Yeah.  

 4       Q.     And you push -- push the spring down to --  

 5       A.     Yes, sir.  

 6       Q.     -- and you turn it to put the pressure on

 7   it, one of those?  

 8       A.     Yes, sir.  

 9       Q.     Where is that rifle now?  

10       A.     Should be in my truck.  

11       Q.     Where in the truck?  

12       A.     What's that?  

13       Q.     Where?  

14       A.     Should be underneath the seat of my truck.  

15       Q.     Still under the seat?  

16       A.     Should be.  

17       Q.     You sure?  

18       A.     I'm not positive where it is.  

19       Q.     How come?  

20       A.     Everything -- everything got stirred up.  

21   Windows were getting smashed out and everything.  

22       Q.     Do -- because I'm hearing some stuff like

23   maybe somebody had that -- that -- that rifle.  

24       A.     Somebody had that rifle?  

25       Q.     I'm hearing maybe.  Do you remember anybody

 1   having that rifle?  

 2       A.     I -- I don't believe anybody did.  I had it.  

 3       Q.     So if that's true, that should -- that rifle

 4   should still be right where you said it was?  

 5       A.     I'm not sure.  I got a lot of stuff in my

 6   back seat, Officer.  Lot of stuff in my back seat.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  Well, where else would it be?  

 8       A.     Should be in my back seat.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  I'm saying -- okay.  So if it's -- if

10   nobody grabbed it, it should still be there?  

11       A.     Yeah.  Should be in my back seat.  

12       Q.     Is it loaded at all?  

13       A.     I don't believe it was.  

14       Q.     And where are the loose cartridges back

15   there?  

16       A.     Should be in the back seat.  

17       Q.     Are they like in one spot?  

18       A.     I'm not sure where they are exactly.  

19       Q.     You're not sure?  

20       A.     Should be in the back seat.  

21       Q.     But are they like just randomly spread over

22   there or what are they?  

23       A.     They would be just in the back seat

24   somewhere.  I'm not sure.  

25       Q.     Well, what do you mean somewhere?  Where?  

 1       A.     I got a lot of stuff in the back seat.  

 2       Q.     Where?  I mean, like -- they just like --

 3   just thrown in the back seat, like somebody like --

 4   like --  

 5       A.     Probably on the -- on the -- be on the

 6   floor.  

 7       Q.     -- thrown around there or where are they?  

 8       A.     On the floor probably.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  Are they like together?  

10       A.     Maybe.  I'm not sure where they are.  

11       Q.     You don't know?  I mean, are they in like a

12   container?  

13       A.     No, they're not in a container.  

14       Q.     They're not in a container?  They're just

15   loose?  

16       A.     They're loose.  

17       Q.     Okay.  Did anybody have that rifle?  

18       A.     Nobody had that rifle.  Not that I know of.  

19   It was under -- underneath the back seat, sitting there

20   in the back seat.  Got a lot of stuff in my truck

21   (inaudible).  

22       Q.     What else is there?  

23       A.     Just some clothes.  

24       Q.     Okay.  What else?  

25       A.     There's a bunch of stuff in there.  I keep a

 1   lot of stuff in my truck.  

 2       Q.     Any other guns?  

 3       A.     No other guns (inaudible).  

 4       Q.     Just the two rifles?  

 5       A.     Yes.  (Inaudible).  

 6       Q.     Any other kind of weapons?  

 7       A.     There may have been a Leatherman knife in

 8   there.  That's about it.  I use it for work.  And maybe

 9   a hunting knife.  That's about it.  

10       Q.     Okay.  Are those in the back seat too?  

11       A.     I don't -- I think they're in the doors in

12   the front seat of the truck.  

13       Q.     Okay.  So where did you put the rifle again

14   when you were done, after you shot him the second time?  

15       A.     I'm not sure exactly where it ended up,

16   Officer.  I think it ended up in the truck somewhere.  

17       Q.     In the truck somewhere?  Did you put it

18   there?  

19       A.     I believe so.  

20       Q.     Did anybody else handle that rifle?  

21       A.     I don't believe so.  

22       Q.     You don't believe so?  

23       A.     No.  

24       Q.     What I'll tell you is everything you tell me

25   will be checked and double checked and triple checked,

 1   and it'll be corroborated by -- you know, we have the

 2   scene frozen up there.  Okay?  We'll be -- we'll be

 3   searching your truck, we'll get the warrants for that,

 4   we'll be searching his car, we'll be searching that

 5   whole area.  Okay?  

 6       A.     Yeah.  

 7       Q.     So everything you say to me should be

 8   corro -- if you're telling me the truth --  

 9       A.     I'm tell -- I'm trying --  

10       Q.     -- should -- should be corroborated or

11   matched up with what's up there.  

12       A.     I'm trying to be -- I'm trying to be as

13   honest with you as I -- I know, everything I know.  

14   Everything I know, as I know it, is as honest as I --

15   it's all I know.  Everything that I'm trying to tell you

16   is how it happened.  Self-defense.  He was coming at me.  

17   I was scared for my life.  I didn't want to die.  He

18   came -- was coming at me with an ax telling me he was

19   going to hit me with it.  

20       Q.     Um hum.  

21       A.     Smashed my truck up.  I don't even know the

22   kid.  All's I know is he's twice my size and he was

23   coming at me with an ax.  

24       Q.     What if I tell you that I'm hearing from

25   some -- some of the witnesses up -- or some of the

 1   people up there that after he was shot in the leg, okay,

 2   he was limping around and you actually were going after

 3   him at that point?  

 4       A.     No, he was coming after me.  He was trying

 5   to hit me with the ax.  

 6       Q.     Is it possible that in the heat of the

 7   battle there -- and this would be completely

 8   understandable, by the way, because, you know, once

 9   you -- you know, it's -- I don't know how many -- I

10   don't know if you're a fighter or not or whatever.  Are

11   you a guy that gets in a lot of fistfights or --  

12       A.     Am I?  

13       Q.     Yeah.  

14       A.     No.  

15       Q.     Have you ever been in a fistfight or --

16   never?  

17       A.     Never.  

18       Q.     Okay.  Once you --  

19       A.     I mean, I been in -- I mean, I have been in

20   some fights before but --  

21       Q.     Okay.  That's what I just asked you.  

22       A.     I mean --  

23       Q.     So you've been in a fistfight before?  

24       A.     I'm not -- yeah, I'm not --  

25       Q.     All right.  

 1       A.     I don't try to go out looking for fights is

 2   what I'm saying.  

 3       Q.     I didn't -- you know what?  I didn't -- I

 4   didn't ask you that.  I said have you ever been in a

 5   fight before.  

 6       A.     Yeah, I been -- I been in fights before.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  So then you know that once things go

 8   from not fighting to fighting, things get kind of

 9   crazy --  

10       A.     Right.  

11       Q.     -- and the adrenaline gets pumped up, and

12   once you hit that switch kind of, you know, you kind of

13   go from not fighting, and once you hit the fighting

14   switch, you know, it's real easy to -- I mean, you kind

15   of go into that mode until it's over.  

16       A.     It was self-defense.  

17       Q.     Okay?  

18       A.     That's all I was trying to do is defend

19   myself.  

20       Q.     Just -- just listen to me.  Listen to me.  

21   So you know that.  Do -- do you understand what I'm

22   saying?  Since you -- if you've been in a fight, you

23   should know -- you should understand what I'm saying,

24   that once you kind of go from not fighting to the -- to

25   the fight and you get into the heat of battle, you kind

 1   of turn that switch and you kind of -- you kind of

 2   battle until the battle's over.  Do you under -- do you

 3   follow what I'm saying?  

 4       A.     Kind of.  

 5       Q.     So I'm just wondering if -- and like I said,

 6   this is understandable, but you need to tell me this.  

 7   Okay?  

 8       A.     Yeah, he was coming after me.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  But after you --  

10       A.     (Inaudible).  

11       Q.     -- after he's coming after you and smashing

12   your truck and smashing everything up and being a

13   complete asshole quite frankly, right?  

14       A.     Right.  

15       Q.     And he's clearly the aggressor at this

16   point?  

17       A.     Yes.  

18       Q.     He's the one that showed up?  

19       A.     Right.  

20       Q.     He's the one that pulled out an ax --  

21       A.     Yes.  

22       Q.     -- and a Taser?  

23       A.     Yes, sir.  

24       Q.     Okay.  But is it possible that you --

25   getting into that adrenaline, you know, you shot him in

 1   the leg, but then you followed up coming after him

 2   because, you know, you turned that switch and you -- you

 3   wanted to make sure that you were -- that you were okay?  

 4       A.     I was -- I was self-defense.  I was trying

 5   to defend myself from being injured by him with an ax,

 6   Officer.  Scared for my life, scared for everybody that

 7   was there.  

 8       Q.     That's -- that's not what I asked you.  

 9       A.     That's what I'm saying is I was still in

10   fear that he was coming at me with an ax.  

11       Q.     I know you were.  I know you were.  I agree.  

12       A.     I was scared.  

13       Q.     I agree.  I'm sure you were afraid of your

14   life through this entire -- through -- from the

15   beginning of this incident when he came out with the ax

16   until the end when he was on the ground.  I have no

17   doubt that you were afraid and concerned for your safety

18   through this whole period of time.  

19       A.     And everybody else that was there because

20   see, it wasn't just me that he was going to hurt, it was

21   everybody that was there that was in his way, and I

22   happened to be right there because I was at my truck,

23   trying to get into my truck and he caught up with me --  

24       Q.     Yeah.  

25       A.     -- trying to get in my truck.  

 1       Q.     And then he's smashing your truck?  

 2       A.     Smashing my truck.  

 3       Q.     Yep.  

 4       A.     Smashed the windows, smashed the door.  

 5       Q.     And he's coming after you?  

 6       A.     Coming after me --  

 7       Q.     Yeah.  

 8       A.     -- chasing me.  

 9       Q.     Yeah.  

10       A.     Threatening me.  

11       Q.     And so then it's -- it's logical and -- and

12   this is how these things happen is that, okay, now

13   you're -- you're going to get -- I mean, it's -- it's

14   only natural you're -- you're going to get -- you're

15   going to get a mixture of anger, fear, you know, a huge

16   adrenaline rush.  Okay?  I mean, that's -- there's no

17   way around it.  Okay?  That's what's going to happen.  

18   Okay?  

19             Anybody -- anybody in that situation is

20   going to have that -- all those feelings.  You're going

21   to get mad, you're going to get scared, you're going

22   to -- you're going to have -- your adrenaline's going to

23   be going through the roof, you know.  

24       A.     Scared.

25       Q.     They call it -- they call it fight or

 1   flight.  You know what I mean?  You get -- you get --

 2   you get extra strong, you -- you can run faster, you

 3   can -- you can do things that you can't do normally.  

 4   Okay?  

 5       A.     I was scared for my life.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  Kyle, just -- so what would be --

 7   what would be understandable is that you shoot him, but

 8   you're still angry, you're still -- you're still scared

 9   because you still don't know if he's going to come after

10   you --  

11       A.     He's --

12       Q.     -- so even though he's -- at this point

13   maybe he's turned and going away or whatever, you -- you

14   take that second shot because you -- you aren't sure

15   what's going to happen.  

16       A.     He was threatening me with a ax.  

17       Q.     I know he was.  Okay?  I -- I hear you.  But

18   what's -- what I'm trying to get across to you -- I

19   think you think I'm trying to trick you and I'm not,

20   okay, and -- but what's really important is you -- you

21   got to tell me everything the way it happened.  Okay?  

22       A.     I tried to do the best I could.  

23       Q.     I know.  But it's going to co -- it has to

24   come out.  Okay?  It's going to come out.  And if it was

25   that he had turned and started moving away from you but

 1   you were still jacked up in that adrenaline dump and at

 2   that point you've -- like I said, you've hit --

 3   you've -- you're turned the switch, you're into the

 4   fight mode now because you're fighting for your life.  

 5       A.     He was suckering my truck trying to get at

 6   me.  

 7       Q.     Okay.  

 8       A.     That's all he was doing was trying to get at

 9   me and anybody else that was around him.  That's it.  

10   All's I tried to do was stop him.  He kept coming, kept

11   coming.  

12       Q.     But are the other people going to tell me

13   that?  

14       A.     The people that were right there should tell

15   you that.  He was running around with a ax, man.  

16       Q.     Well, there's a -- there's a lot of people

17   that were right there, so there's going to be a lot of

18   people for us to talk to.  

19       A.     Yeah, he was -- he was running --  

20       Q.     I mean, this is -- this is something that

21   was really witnessed by quite a few people.  

22       A.     He was running around with a ax.  

23       Q.     I know he was.  

24       A.     Like a madman.  He's a psychotic person.  I

25   don't know -- understand what he was thinking.  He was

 1   trying to hurt people with the ax.  He was trying to

 2   hurt me especially.  He was busting my stuff, busting my

 3   windows.  My dog was inside.  My brother was right

 4   there.  He's coming at me with an ax, threatening me.  I

 5   didn't know what to do and I was scared for my life.  

 6       Q.     But --  

 7       A.     Self-defense at that point.  

 8       Q.     But what I need to know is when you're

 9   defending yourself, did he at some point turn and start

10   moving away from you because he was wounded, and did you

11   still -- because you were still in that fight mode, did

12   you still follow up and shoot him again?  

13       A.     He was chasing me around the truck with the

14   ax.  He wasn't -- he wasn't backing down.  

15       Q.     Because what I'm trying to do is before --

16   you know, we got a whole bunch of detectives out there

17   and they're talking to everybody that's out there right

18   now -- right now.  Okay?  

19       A.     Yeah.  

20       Q.     And I got a little bit of information before

21   I came in here.  

22       A.     Yeah.  (Inaudible).  

23       Q.     Okay.  I don't have the whole story yet.  

24       A.     I know.  I'm telling you what --  

25       Q.     But what I'm -- what I'm trying to do is

 1   give you a chance right now to tell me the whole story.  

 2       A.     I am.  I'm telling you everything that

 3   happened out -- it's what I remember.  

 4       Q.     Because -- and let me tell you something

 5   that's dead serious.  Okay?  If -- if you're changing

 6   the events at all here, okay, at all, if we find out

 7   that this isn't how it happened, your self-defense is

 8   done.  You are done.  

 9       A.     How -- how am I going to be a victim here?  

10   I mean, he was chasing me.  How am I going to be -- I'm

11   a victim here, you know?

12       Q.     Do you -- Kyle, do you understand what I

13   just told you?  

14       A.     I'm telling you how it happened, man.  He

15   was coming at me with a ax.  

16       Q.     Okay.  But if I find out that -- somehow

17   that your version of events you -- you've changed things

18   a little bit to make yourself seem -- to look better, if

19   I find that out -- see, I'm giving -- I'm giving you the

20   up-front chance, okay, to tell me exactly what happened.  

21   Okay?  

22       A.     I told you what happened, man.  

23       Q.     I'm -- I'm trying to give you every chance I

24   can.  

25       A.     (Inaudible).  

 1       Q.     I really am.  I'm trying to give you every

 2   chance.  I'm trying to give you every chance to help

 3   yourself because to -- to get it out now is the best way

 4   to help yourself.  Okay?  I -- I've investigated enough

 5   of these cases.  Okay?  

 6       A.     I know.  I'm telling you what happened, man.  

 7       Q.     If --  

 8       A.     He was coming at me.  

 9       Q.     -- if I find out -- from the witnesses, from

10   the scene work that we're going to do, if I find out

11   that the -- the events are a little bit different, then

12   nobody's ever going to believe you anymore.  

13       A.     You don't -- you're trying to say you don't

14   believe me --  

15       Q.     No, that's not what I'm saying.  

16       A.     -- there's no witnesses that will say what

17   happened.  

18       Q.     Kyle, listen to me.  That's not what I'm

19   saying.  That is not at all what I'm saying.  What I'm

20   saying is I think you're scared.  

21       A.     I'm scared because he was coming at me and

22   I'm just still trying to recover from this.  

23       Q.     Yeah.  And I think you're too -- also scared

24   because of what happened out there.  I mean, anybody

25   would be scared.  

 1       A.     I just wanted not to die.  I was trying to

 2   stay alive.  I wanted my brother to stay alive and I

 3   wanted everybody that was -- he was chasing me with a

 4   ax.  He was coming after me.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  But what I'm a little bit concerned

 6   about from what little bit I've got -- information I

 7   have now before I came in here, what I'm a little bit

 8   concerned about is that it didn't go down exactly what

 9   you told me.  

10       A.     What do you -- what do you think it went

11   down as?  

12       Q.     Well --  

13       A.     That's -- I'm telling you exactly how it

14   happened, man.

15       Q.     I need -- it doesn't matter how I think it

16   went down.  It only matters how it actually did go down.  

17       A.     I know.  I'm telling you exactly how it

18   happened over there is what I'm saying, Officer.  I told

19   you exactly how it happened.  

20       Q.     What's wrong with your leg?  

21       A.     Cramping -- cramping up.  

22       Q.     Did you get injured at all in this?  

23       A.     No.  I been sitting down for too long.  I'm

24   telling you exactly how it happened, Officer.  

25       Q.     Did you get injured at all --  

 1       A.     No.  

 2       Q.     -- during this altercation?  

 3       A.     No.  

 4       Q.     Did he ever lay a hand on you or get a hold

 5   of you or anything?  

 6       A.     No, never got a hold of me.  

 7       Q.     Did you get any injuries at all?  

 8       A.     No, none.

 9       Q.     What's --

10       A.     So --

11       Q.     -- what's concerning me is what I told you,

12   is that I'm getting a little information that you hit

13   him in the leg, but then at that point, he wasn't coming

14   after you anymore.  

15       A.     He was still coming after me.  He was

16   running -- running around my truck.  He was right there

17   with me.  He was running around my truck trying to come

18   after me with his ax still at that point.  There was no

19   way he was letting down.  He was not taking no for an

20   answer.  He was trying to hurt somebody and he was

21   trying to hurt me.  

22       Q.     Well, taking a 06 in the leg is going to

23   slow you down.  

24       A.     Yeah.  

25       Q.     I don't care who you are.  

 1       A.     Yeah.  He was still trying to hurt me.  

 2   Still.  Running around the vehicle, is trying to

 3   (inaudible).  

 4       Q.     Matter of fact, most people get hit -- hit

 5   with a 30-06 in the leg aren't going to be walking

 6   anymore.  

 7       A.     No.  He wa -- he was still walking.  He was

 8   running around, coming after me still.  

 9       Q.     Because that's -- that's not like taking a

10   pistol round.  That's a pretty significant round as you

11   know.  

12       A.     Yeah.  Yeah.  He was coming after me.  

13       Q.     And you get hit with that in the leg and

14   that's -- that's not -- that's not something you're just

15   going to be walking around with.  

16       A.     He was still running around.  Now, if he was

17   jacked up on something or something, but he was still

18   coming after me.  

19       Q.     And you're positive you only fired twice?  

20       A.     Yes.  

21       Q.     Positive?  

22       A.     Yes.  

23       Q.     So we're not going to find more shell

24   casings or anything like that.  We're going to find two.  

25       A.     No.  It was twice.  

 1       Q.     Okay.

 2       A.     Twice.  

 3       Q.     There's two things that are concerning me.  

 4   What I'm hearing about what happened, that you're not

 5   telling me exactly the version of events.  Okay?  That

 6   and I think you know more about why Vinny's up there and

 7   he's mad.  I think you're trying to protect your

 8   friends.  

 9       A.     I'm not trying to protect my friends, man.  

10   I -- I'm not -- I don't know any more about what

11   happened.  All's I know is that he showed up looking for

12   them.  That's it.  And I happened to be there with them,

13   and I got in the middle of it, and he came after me with

14   an ax threatening me, trying to hurt me with an ax.  I

15   did what I had to do to not get hit with an ax.  

16       Q.     But why is it -- why is it you that gets in

17   the middle of it?  

18       A.     Because I was the last person that ran back.  

19   When we were out there, we were standing out there in a

20   group of people and he started running at us with an ax.  

21   We -- everybody took off, and I ran back to my truck,

22   and he caught up to my truck and came at me because I

23   was the last person there.  I've never even spoken to

24   this kid before in my life.  I don't even know who he

25   is.  No idea.

 1       Q.     Or is -- is the reason that it's you that

 2   gets in the middle of it is because you're the one that

 3   has the gun?  

 4       A.     No.  He had -- he had no recollection that I

 5   even had a gun in my truck (inaudible).  

 6       Q.     No, no, but you know that you have a gun.  

 7   So in other -- in other words, instead of running,

 8   getting out of there, you know you got a gun in the

 9   truck.  

10       A.     I was getting into my truck to get away from

11   him because he was after me, after us, after everybody,

12   but I thought the safe place would be inside my truck.  

13       Q.     You don't think you could outrun him?  

14       A.     He was catching up to me.  I fell on the

15   ground trying to get in my truck.  

16       Q.     Right, get in your truck --  

17       A.     And he started swinging --  

18       Q.     -- but what if you just -- what if you just

19   run?  

20       A.     I don't know.  Who would have known what

21   would have happened.  

22       Q.     I don't know.  

23       A.     Because I fell when I got to my truck --  

24       Q.     Right, but that's --  

25       A.     -- so he was right there.  

 1       Q.     -- because you went to your truck.  What if

 2   you had just run with the other ones?  

 3       A.     I don't know what would have happened.  I

 4   ran to the closest spot there was protection, Officer.

 5       Q.     I mean, if you went to your truck to get

 6   your gun, then just tell me that.  

 7       A.     I went to my truck for protection, to get

 8   inside my truck away from him with the ax, and when I

 9   got there, I fell down, he started smashing my windows

10   swinging at me, swinging at --  

11       Q.     So at what point do you think I should get

12   my gun?  

13       A.     Well, I ran around to the back of my truck.  

14   When I got into my truck, when he came around the

15   corner, when he was right -- almost, you know, coming

16   around the back of my truck, I knew that I had to do

17   something.  I knew that I had to do something, otherwise

18   I was going to get hurt.  

19       Q.     Okay.  But at what point did your brain say

20   I have a gun and I'm going to get it?  

21       A.     When he told me he was coming at me,

22   threatening me --  

23       Q.     When was that?  

24       A.     -- telling me he was going to hit me with

25   the ax.  

 1       Q.     When was that?  

 2       A.     When he was hitting the side of my truck,

 3   smashing the side of my truck, coming around the back

 4   side.  That's when he -- that's when it clicked in my

 5   mind that I had -- that he -- he's coming at me.  He was

 6   coming after me.  For some reason, he wanted to come

 7   after me, anybody else that was in his way, my brother,

 8   anybody.  

 9       Q.     But if he's got a problem with Tristan, why

10   is he coming after you?  

11       A.     I don't know, man.  I have no idea.  

12       Q.     I think you do.  

13       A.     I have no idea --  

14       Q.     I think you do.  

15       A.     -- why he was coming after me.  He doesn't

16   even know me.  He doesn't know who I am.  I don't even

17   know who he is.  I was there and I got caught in the

18   middle of a bad situation.  

19       Q.     You did.  

20       A.     That's all there is to it.  

21       Q.     You did get in the middle of a bad

22   situation, and now you need to tell me why.  Because if

23   you don't tell me why -- you know --  

24       A.     I don't know --  

25       Q.     -- I can't seem to get through to you.  

 1       A.     I know.  I don't know why.  

 2       Q.     I can't seem to get through to you that to

 3   help yourself out, you need to tell me everything.  

 4       A.     I am telling you everything that happened,

 5   Officer.  

 6       Q.     If he's so mad at Tristan, why does he --

 7   why does he even bother with you?  

 8       A.     Because he -- I think he's psychotic or

 9   something.  

10       Q.     Did -- what did you say --  

11       A.     He was coming at anybody.  Anybody.  

12       Q.     -- what did you say to him?  

13       A.     I didn't say a word to him.  I didn't --  

14       Q.     You didn't say a word to him?  

15       A.     Nothing to him.  

16       Q.     So why is he then going after you?  

17       A.     Because we were in the crowd, and he ran at

18   us, ran at everybody, everybody that was standing there.  

19   He was running towards everybody, coming at us with the

20   ax.  It wasn't just me.  It was anybody that would have

21   slowed down, anybody that was there.  He was going to go

22   after anybody --  

23       Q.     Um hum.  

24       A.     -- in that crowd of people.  He didn't know

25   what he was after.  

 1       Q.     How did he know that Tristan was at the ball

 2   field?  

 3       A.     How did he know that?  

 4       Q.     Yeah.  

 5       A.     I'm not sure.  

 6       Q.     You're not sure about a lot.  

 7       A.     Maybe he -- maybe he -- maybe he talked to

 8   him or something.  I don't know.  Maybe they -- someone

 9   talked to somebody, he found out -- found out that he

10   was there.  

11       Q.     He was sitting in the truck with you.  Did

12   they talk on the cell phone?  

13       A.     I don't think so.  I don't know.  

14       Q.     He was -- he was driving, right?  

15       A.     He was even calling and threatening him --

16   threatening him all -- all night, all day threatening

17   him.  

18       Q.     He had been calling and threatening him all

19   day?  

20       A.     Yes, sir.  

21       Q.     Okay.  Why didn't you tell me that?  

22       A.     He -- I think he drove by his house.  I

23   don't know.  

24       Q.     Who drove by whose house?  

25       A.     Vinny drove by Tristan's house.  

 1       Q.     Okay.  

 2       A.     I think.  

 3       Q.     So did he get --  

 4       A.     We happened to be at this --  

 5       Q.     -- did he get calls while you were in the

 6   truck with him, with Tristan?  

 7       A.     Yeah, he did.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  And what were those calls?  

 9       A.     Just threatened him and saying that --  

10       Q.     Don't just tell me he threatened him.  What

11   happened in the calls?  

12       A.     I wasn't -- I wasn't on the phone, Officer.

13       Q.     Don't just tell me there were calls.  What

14   happened in the calls?  

15       A.     I wasn't on the phone.  I don't know what

16   exactly was said.  

17       Q.     Okay.  All right.  All right.  All right.

18   See, I keep -- I keep telling you you need to tell me

19   everything.  You didn't tell me about the calls.  I -- I

20   kept -- I just went over and over with you, okay, what

21   happened prior and why this happened.  Did you tell me

22   about the calls?  

23       A.     He -- I told you he called him on his

24   cell --  

25       Q.     No, no, you -- no, you didn't tell me about

 1   the calls until just now.  Why?

 2       A.     He was calling --  

 3       Q.     Because you're trying to protect Tristan for

 4   some screwed-up reason, that's why.  

 5       A.     I'm not trying to protect him at all, man.  

 6       Q.     Because something went down the other day,

 7   some kind of robbery or something el -- or some kind of

 8   rip-off and you don't want to tell me about it, and now

 9   you're going to go to jail because you don't want to

10   tell me about some stupid rip-off.  

11       A.     I'm not -- I don't want to go to jail, man.  

12   It was self-defense and he was coming after me.  He was

13   going to kill me.  

14       Q.     Well, then you better tell me everything

15   that happened then.  

16       A.     He ripped him off.  

17       Q.     Who ripped off who?  

18       A.     Vinny ripped Tristan off appar --  

19       Q.     All right.  All right.  Now we're getting

20   somewhere.  So now you do know that.  

21       A.     I told you Vinny ripped Tristan off from the

22   beginning.  

23       Q.     No, you didn't tell me that.  

24       A.     I told you that (inaudible).  

25       Q.     No, you didn't.  You told me he went in his

 1   house.  

 2       A.     Went in his house and ripped him off.  

 3       Q.     You didn't tell me that, did you?  

 4       A.     I'm not sure what exactly happened.  Tristan

 5   was looking -- he was looking for Tristan.  

 6       Q.     When did Vinny rip off Tristan?  

 7       A.     I think a couple days ago.  

 8       Q.     And how did that happen?  What happened?  

 9       A.     He walked up into his house.  

10       Q.     And -- and what?  

11       A.     Stole 40 bucks from him.  

12       Q.     From Tristan?  

13       A.     Yeah.  Well, took it off him.  

14       Q.     Was Tristan home when that happened?  

15       A.     Yes.  

16       Q.     So how did he stole -- how did he steal 40

17   bucks from him?  

18       A.     He took -- he took -- took his money from

19   him.  

20       Q.     Like how?  

21       A.     Went up in there and just said I'm -- I'm

22   leaving, took off.  

23       Q.     What do you mean he went up there and said

24   I'm leaving?  I'm going to walk into your house, say I'm

25   leaving and take 40 bucks?  What happened?  

 1       A.     He took off.  

 2       Q.     What happened?  How did he take 40 bucks?  

 3       A.     He said he was leaving and he took off.  

 4       Q.     How did he get the $40?  

 5       A.     He took it.  

 6       Q.     From where?  

 7       A.     From his house.  

 8       Q.     From where?  

 9       A.     Tristan's.  

10       Q.     Where?  

11       A.     I'm not sure exactly.  I wasn't there,

12   Officer.  

13       Q.     All right.  Well, then what happened?  

14       A.     I'm not sure.  I wasn't there.  

15       Q.     How did he rip him off of 40 bucks?  

16       A.     I'm not sure.  He ripped him off somehow, I

17   think.  

18       Q.     No, you don't think, you know.  

19       A.     I wasn't -- I wasn't there, Officer.  

20       Q.     What happened?  

21       A.     I don't know.  I wasn't there.  

22       Q.     Who was there?  

23       A.     Tristan, I guess.  

24       Q.     Tristan and who?  

25       A.     I'm not sure.  

 1       Q.     Who else?  

 2       A.     I'm not sure, Officer.  

 3       Q.     You're still not getting it.  

 4       A.     I think Ben -- Ben Millay.  Ben Millay.

 5       Q.     Ben Millay?  

 6       A.     Ben Millay was with him.  That's why he

 7   slashed his tires.  

 8       Q.     Okay.  

 9       A.     Something to do with Julie and it's his

10   girlfriend or something.  That's why they (inaudible) at

11   him.  

12       Q.     All right.  Why don't you tell me exactly

13   what happened and why they were mad at each other, okay,

14   and stop -- stop beating around the bush, stop giving me

15   little tidbits.  Okay?  Why don't you just tell me

16   everything.  Okay?  

17       A.     I told you everything.  

18       Q.     Because -- no, you didn't.  We're getting a

19   little more information now.  We're getting that -- that

20   Tristan got ripped off of 40 bucks, that there was a

21   girl involved, that Ben Millay was there.  Okay?  

22       A.     Yeah, but I --  

23       Q.     So you didn't tell me everything, did you?  

24       A.     But -- but I wasn't there -- I don't -- I

25   don't know exactly.

 1       Q.     Wait a minute?  

 2       A.     It's just hearsay.  

 3       Q.     Did you tell me everything?  

 4       A.     Best as -- as po --  

 5       Q.     Stop it.  Did you tell me everything?  

 6       A.     That's not what I know.  

 7       Q.     Did you tell me everything?  

 8       A.     Officer, that's not what I know, it's just

 9   what was told me.  

10       Q.     Did you tell me everything?  

11       A.     It's what was told to me, Officer.  

12       Q.     Answer me.  Did you tell me everything?  

13       A.     Everything that I know, yes.  

14       Q.     No.  Did you before?  

15       A.     That's all I know.  

16       Q.     No.  

17       A.     That's all I know.  

18       Q.     What you're not getting --  

19       A.     I wasn't there, Off --  

20       Q.     -- what you're not getting here, okay, is

21   that you are looking at ten times worse trouble than

22   some stupid rip-off, and whoever you're trying to

23   protect, it's just downright silly to be protecting them

24   when you're looking at some serious jail time.  

25       A.     I'm not trying to protect anybody but

 1   myself.  

 2       Q.     Well, then why aren't you telling me the

 3   whole story?  

 4       A.     That's all I know, Officer.  

 5       Q.     So when did this rip-off happen?  

 6       A.     Two days ago.  

 7       Q.     At Tristan's house?  

 8       A.     Yeah.  

 9       Q.     Who else was there?  

10       A.     Ben Millay.  

11       Q.     Who else?  Who else?  

12       A.     Tristan's girlfriend.  

13       Q.     Tristan's girlfriend?  

14       A.     Michelle Lachapelle.  

15       Q.     Michelle what?  

16       A.     Lachapelle.  

17       Q.     How do you spell that?  

18       A.     L-a-c-h-a-p-e-l-l-e.  

19       Q.     L-a-c-h what?  

20       A.     A-p-e-l-l-e.  

21       Q.     L-a-c-h-a-p-l-l-e?  

22       A.     E-l-l-e.  

23       Q.     E-l-l-e.  Who else?  

24       A.     I think that was it.  I wasn't there, so

25   I -- I don't know exactly.  I don't hang out there all

 1   that often.  

 2       Q.     And we're talking about at Tristan's --  

 3       A.     Yeah.  

 4       Q.     -- apartment?  

 5       A.     Yeah.  

 6       Q.     In Chester?  

 7       A.     Yeah.  

 8       Q.     Where does Michelle live?  

 9       A.     With Tristan.  

10       Q.     Where?  

11       A.     With Tristan.  

12       Q.     With Tristan?  

13       A.     Yeah.

14       Q.     How about Ben?  

15       A.     Ben lives in Springfield.  

16       Q.     Where?  

17       A.     Orchard Lane.  

18       Q.     Where on Orchard Lane?  

19       A.     I'm not sure of the number exactly.  

20       Q.     What time of day did this happen?  

21       A.     What's that?  

22       Q.     The rip-off.  What time of day?  

23       A.     I don't know.  I wasn't there.  

24       Q.     Day?  Night?  

25       A.     I honestly don't know.  I wasn't there,

 1   Officer.  

 2       Q.     And who did Vinny show up with?  

 3       A.     I was told he showed up with Kirby Donahue.  

 4       Q.     With who?  With who?  

 5       A.     Kirby Donahue.  

 6       Q.     Kirby Donahue?  

 7       A.     Yeah.  

 8       Q.     Where does he live?  

 9       A.     That's a -- that's a girl.  

10       Q.     Okay.  Where does she live?  

11       A.     She lives in Chester.  

12       Q.     She lives where?  

13       A.     In Chester.  

14       Q.     Where?  

15       A.     I'm not sure where.  

16       Q.     Is that Vinny's girlfriend?  

17       A.     No, I don't think so.  No.  I don't know.  

18       Q.     Who -- who is she?  

19       A.     I'm not a part of this.  I wasn't a part of

20   the whole scene until today.  

21       Q.     Well, you are now.  

22       A.     Until today, until I -- he was chasing me

23   with that ax today.

24       Q.     Well, you're a part of it now.  

25       A.     I know.  Until he chased me with an ax.  

 1       Q.     All right.  Well, it's not fair, but you're

 2   a part of it now.  

 3       A.     I know.  I'm telling you everything I know.  

 4   It's all I can do, you know?  

 5       Q.     Well, I'm concerned because you didn't tell

 6   me everything you knew.  

 7       A.     I'm so worked up right now, Officer.  

 8       Q.     No, it's --  

 9       A.     I'm tired.  

10       Q.     No, what's happening is you're trying to

11   protect these guys.  

12       A.     I'm not trying to protect them at all.  I

13   was trying to protect myself from getting hit with an

14   ax.  

15       Q.     So how did Vinny rip off Tristan?  

16       A.     I don't know.  I guess he walked up in there

17   and took -- took it from him, I guess.  

18       Q.     Took $40?  

19       A.     Yeah.  

20       Q.     Right, but what kind of force did he use?  

21       A.     I think he just walked up in there and just

22   said this is what's happening.  He had a Taser and a

23   knife --  

24       Q.     Okay.  

25       A.     -- the other day.  

 1       Q.     He had a Taser and a knife?  

 2       A.     Yep.  

 3       Q.     And who told you this?  

 4       A.     Tristan told me.  

 5       Q.     When did he tell you about this?  When did

 6   he tell you?  

 7       A.     Couple day -- yesterday.  

 8       Q.     Yesterday?  

 9       A.     Yeah, it happened yesterday.  

10       Q.     Well, you said the rip-off happened two days

11   ago.  

12       A.     I wasn't a part of it, so I'm not sure what

13   happened.  I wasn't a part of what happened.  

14       Q.     So did it happen Friday or Saturday?  The

15   rip-off.  

16       A.     I guess it would have been Saturday.  

17       Q.     So it happened on Saturday?  

18       A.     Yeah.  

19       Q.     And when did Tristan tell you?  Same day?  

20       A.     Yeah.  

21       Q.     How did he tell you?  

22       A.     Yesterday.  On the phone.  

23       Q.     Why is he ripping off 40 bucks from him?  

24       A.     I don't know.  He just thought he --  

25       Q.     Is this a drug deal?  

 1       A.     I guess he thought he was a --  

 2       Q.     Is this -- is this drug stuff?  

 3       A.     Guess he thought he was a big dude and

 4   wanted to go up in there and do whatever he wanted to

 5   do.  

 6       Q.     Well, is this drug stuff?  

 7       A.     I don't believe it was.  

 8       Q.     Is Tristan dealing some kind of drugs?  

 9       A.     Not that I know of.  

10       Q.     Is Vinny?  

11       A.     Not that I know of.  I don't even know who

12   this kid is.  

13       Q.     Well, there's a reason he's ripping him off

14   for 40 bucks.  

15       A.     But I don't understand why.  I don't know.  

16       Q.     Well, yeah, you do know why.  

17       A.     I don't know why he ripped him off.  

18       Q.     Your friend called you and told you he

19   ripped him off and he told you why.  Why?  

20       A.     He felt the need to go up in there and rip

21   him off, I guess.  I don't know.  

22       Q.     Kyle --  

23       A.     He came after me.  

24       Q.     Kyle --  

25       A.     He's been coming after everybody, I guess.  

 1       Q.     Kyle, you got to lay it out on the table

 2   here.  

 3       A.     I'm telling you everything I know, Officer.  

 4       Q.     Do you understand how serious this is?  

 5       A.     Yeah, I do.  

 6       Q.     Okay.  You need to lay it out on the table.  

 7   Why did he rip him off?  

 8       A.     I don't know why he ripped him off.  

 9       Q.     Kyle, why did he rip him off?  

10       A.     Thought he was bigger -- thought he was

11   bigger than him and he thought he could rip him off.  

12       Q.     Well, what's -- what's the connection?  

13       A.     I don't know.  

14       Q.     What's the connection?  

15       A.     I don't know.  He doesn't know him.  

16       Q.     Oh, so he just showed up?  

17       A.     He's only met him once -- Tristan's only met

18   him once before in his life.  He's a dangerous person, I

19   guess, and going up in there and saying this is what's

20   happening.  

21       Q.     Well, what's -- you -- you told me there was

22   a problem with some girls or something.  What -- what's

23   the problem there?  

24       A.     I guess Ben Millay was dating his -- his

25   girlfriend now or something.  

 1       Q.     Dating whose girlfriend?  

 2       A.     Vinny.  

 3       Q.     Vinny's girlfriend?  

 4       A.     Yes.  

 5       Q.     Is that Kirb -- or -- is that Kirby?  

 6       A.     No.  

 7       Q.     Who is it?

 8       A.     Julie Cronberg.  

 9       Q.     Julie who?  

10       A.     Cronberg.  

11       Q.     Cronberg?  

12       A.     Yeah.  

13       Q.     How do you spell that?  

14       A.     C-r-o-n-b-e-r-g.  

15       Q.     Where does she live?  

16       A.     Springfield.  

17       Q.     Where in Springfield?  

18       A.     On Summer Street.  

19       Q.     Where on Summer Street?  

20       A.     I just know it's on Summer Street.  I'm not

21   sure exactly where they live.  

22       Q.     Who's she live with?  

23       A.     I think her parents.  

24       Q.     What house is it?  

25       A.     I'm not sure.  I never been there.  

 1       Q.     What are the parents' names?  

 2       A.     Julie's?  

 3       Q.     Yeah.  

 4       A.     I don't know.  

 5       Q.     You know her phone number?  

 6       A.     No.  I don't -- I don't associate with any

 7   of these people.  

 8       Q.     So --  

 9       A.     I got caught in the middle of this bad

10   situation.  

11       Q.     So -- so Ben was dating or is dating Julie?  

12       A.     He was dating -- was dating her.  

13       Q.     Okay.  And what -- so what's the problem?  

14       A.     Now Vinny -- Vinny is dating her and he

15   showed up --  

16       Q.     Vinny's dating her now?  

17       A.     Yeah.  Vinny showed up there because I don't

18   know if he knew Ben was there or what -- what he did.  

19       Q.     What's he upset about though?  

20       A.     I think the fact that Ben used to hang out

21   with her or --  

22       Q.     Why would he be upset about that?  

23       A.     Because I guess he's just jealous.  

24       Q.     Okay.  I'm going to ask you again why did he

25   rip him off of 40 bucks?  I know you know.  

 1       A.     I don't know.  

 2       Q.     I can -- I can read you like a book.  You

 3   know.  You're just not telling me.  

 4       A.     Felt -- he felt the need to walk up in there

 5   and rip him off, I guess.  

 6       Q.     Why?  

 7       A.     He did -- didn't like him or something.  I

 8   don't know.  I wasn't a part of --  

 9       Q.     There's more to it that he didn't like and

10   you know why.  

11       A.     I wasn't a part of it though.  I wasn't a

12   part of it though.  

13       Q.     You know why.  Because Tristan told you why.  

14       A.     I wasn't a part of it though.  

15       Q.     I don't care if you weren't a part of it.  

16   Tristan told you why he ripped him off.  Why did he rip

17   him off?  It's part of this whole thing now.  

18       A.     Yeah.  

19       Q.     Like it or not, it's part of why Vinny

20   showed up with an ax today.  

21       A.     But -- but he -- he ripped -- he was ripping

22   people off.  

23       Q.     Okay.  But why did he rip off Tristan?  

24       A.     No, because he can rip peop -- everybody

25   off.  I don't know.  

 1       Q.     Why did he rip off Tristan?  

 2       A.     I don't know why he ripped him off.  He

 3   doesn't like him.  I'm not sure why he ripped him off.  

 4   I'm not -- I wasn't a part of any of that, Officer.  

 5   All's I know is I got caught in the middle of it

 6   today --  

 7       Q.     Yeah, you did.  

 8       A.     -- when he came at me with an ax.  

 9       Q.     So now you need to tell me.  

10       A.     I wasn't a part of any of that.  

11       Q.     I'm not saying you were, but you need to

12   tell me what you know.  

13       A.     It is what I know.  

14       Q.     Do you know why he ripped him off?  

15       A.     What do you mean why did he rip him off?  

16       Q.     Why did he go up there and rip him off 40

17   bucks?  You know why.  

18       A.     Maybe he needed the money.  

19       Q.     Maybe, but you know why.  

20       A.     Why did he need money?  

21       Q.     What's the reason -- no, what's the reason

22   he went up there?  There's a reason he picked Tristan's

23   house to go up and rip him off.  

24       A.     There is a reason, but I don't -- I can't

25   tell you what he was thinking.  I can't tell you what he

 1   was thinking at the time.  

 2       Q.     You can tell me what Tristan told you.  

 3       A.     Ripped him off 40 bucks.  

 4       Q.     Tristan told you this yesterday?  

 5       A.     Yeah.  

 6       Q.     What else did he tell you?  

 7       A.     That's it.  

 8       Q.     What did you do last night?  

 9       A.     Sat at home.  I had to work this morning.  

10       Q.     Last night where -- where -- where were you

11   last night?  

12       A.     At my house.  

13       Q.     With who?  

14       A.     Just me and Jerry, my dog.  

15       Q.     With just your dog?  

16       A.     Yeah.  Jerry.  

17       Q.     Who's Jay?  

18       A.     Jerry.  

19       Q.     Jay who?  

20       A.     Jerry Ucci.  

21       Q.     Okay.  The guy that was with you today?  

22       A.     Yep.  We work together.  

23       Q.     What -- what did you -- what were you doing

24   at your house last night?  

25       A.     Just watching TV, hanging out.  Went to bed

 1   early.  

 2       Q.     What time did you go to bed?  

 3       A.     Ten.  

 4       Q.     And what about Jay?  

 5       A.     Same.  

 6       Q.     He sleep at your house last night?  

 7       A.     Yeah.  

 8       Q.     He went to bed at ten too?  

 9       A.     He's been staying there.  He stays there.  

10   He works with me.  

11       Q.     You said you went to work today?  

12       A.     This morning earlier.  

13       Q.     What time did you wake up this morning?  

14       A.     Around 9:30, 10 o'clock.  

15       Q.     Okay.  What did you do then?  

16       A.     Went to work for a few hours.  

17       Q.     Where do you -- where do you work?  

18       A.     I worked in Springfield at my parents'

19   house.  

20       Q.     Where?  Where do they live?  

21       A.     Walnut Hill Court.  

22       Q.     Which house?  

23       A.     3 Walnut Hill Court.  

24       Q.     What did you do there?  

25       A.     Some landscaping.  I do landscaping.  Then

 1   went out and did some scouting in the woods, hung some

 2   shot cameras for --  

 3       Q.     What time were you done landscaping?  

 4       A.     It was probably -- we -- we only put in a

 5   few hours there.  

 6       Q.     So what time were you done landscaping?  

 7       A.     Not sure exactly what time it was.  I think

 8   it was just after noon.  

 9       Q.     Early afternoon, late afternoon?  

10       A.     Just after noon.  I think it was one

11   o'clock, right around one o'clock.  

12       Q.     Think one o'clock?  Who was landscaping with

13   you?  

14       A.     Jerry.  

15       Q.     Who?  

16       A.     Jerry.  

17       Q.     Jerry?  

18       A.     Ucci.  

19       Q.     Just you and Jerry?  

20       A.     Yeah.  

21       Q.     Nobody else.  Okay.  What did you do at one?  

22       A.     We did some scouting.  

23       Q.     What's that?  

24       A.     We did some scouting in the woods.  

25       Q.     The two of you?  

 1       A.     Two of us, yeah.  

 2       Q.     Where did you go scouting?  

 3       A.     Up in the apple orchard where I hung --  

 4       Q.     Where's that?  

 5       A.     Springfield right up by my parents' house.  

 6       Q.     Where?  Where -- where in -- where is it?  

 7       A.     North Springfield.  Orchard -- orchard

 8   where --  

 9       Q.     Okay.  What -- like where did you -- where

10   did you go, where'd you park, where'd you --  

11       A.     Parked at the top of the orchard and walked

12   up.  

13       Q.     Okay.  What -- what's the name of the road?  

14       A.     It's Double Four Orchards.  

15       Q.     What's that?  

16       A.     Double Four Orchards.  

17       Q.     Double Four?  

18       A.     Yeah.  

19       Q.     Okay.  But where do you go -- where do you

20   park?  

21       A.     Right at the top, the orchard.  

22       Q.     Did you drive into the orchard?  

23       A.     Yeah.  

24       Q.     Yes?  

25       A.     Yes.  There's a road that goes all the way

 1   up to the top.  

 2       Q.     Okay.  How do you -- I don't know where this

 3   orchard is.  How do you get to it?  

 4       A.     Right -- right by my house.  You go up --

 5   you go up (inaudible).  

 6       Q.     Up your parent -- by your parents' house or

 7   your house?  

 8       A.     My parents' house.  

 9       Q.     Okay.  

10       A.     It's a long drive to get up there.  

11       Q.     Is it -- is it behind your parents' house?  

12   Where is it?  

13       A.     Yeah, it's behind my parents' house.  

14       Q.     Okay.  So what road do you take to the

15   orchard?  

16       A.     It's a no-name road.  Off of Walnut Hill

17   Court.  

18       Q.     Off -- so off Walnut Hill Court?  

19       A.     Yeah.  

20       Q.     Okay.  Where'd you go?  

21       A.     Up to the orchard.  

22       Q.     Okay.  And then what?  

23       A.     From there?  Met up with my father.  

24       Q.     You said you drove to the top of the

25   orchard?  

 1       A.     Yeah.  

 2       Q.     In your truck?  

 3       A.     Yeah.  

 4       Q.     So you were actually in the apple orchard

 5   with your truck?  

 6       A.     Right.  

 7       Q.     Did you see anybody?  

 8       A.     No.  

 9       Q.     Jerry -- is it Jerry or Jay?  

10       A.     Jerry.  

11       Q.     Jerry?  

12       A.     Jerry.  

13       Q.     He go with you?  

14       A.     Yeah.  Went out and hung some trail cameras

15   for scouting, take pictures of the deer, digital

16   cameras.  

17       Q.     You set some up?  

18       A.     Yeah.  Take pictures of the deer.  

19       Q.     How many did you set up?  

20       A.     Two.  

21       Q.     Okay.  Where are they?  

22       A.     Up in the orchard.  

23       Q.     Where?  

24       A.     There's a couple in a couple different

25   corners up there.  There's two corners that I set them

 1   up at.  

 2       Q.     Do you have permission to go up in it?  

 3       A.     Yes.  

 4       Q.     From who?  

 5       A.     From the owner.  

 6       Q.     Who's he?  

 7       A.     There's a couple different areas up there.  

 8       Q.     Who's the owner?  

 9       A.     A guy from Pennsylvania.  

10       Q.     What's his name?  

11       A.     I can't remember his name right now.  I'm

12   get -- I'm really tired, Officer.  Been a long day.  

13       Q.     Yep.  So how long you up in the orchard?  

14       A.     Just for a few hours.  

15       Q.     Okay.  What time do you leave?  

16       A.     It was probably around 3:30, 4 o'clock.  

17   Went and did some errands.  

18       Q.     Where'd you go?  

19       A.     Just in Chester.  I had to go back, do some

20   laundry -- pick up some laundry at my parents' house,

21   then went back to Chester, had some dinner.  

22       Q.     Where'd you eat dinner?  

23       A.     Had dinner at McDonald's on the way back

24   through to Chester.  

25       Q.     McDonald's where?  

 1       A.     Springfield.  

 2       Q.     So you said you did errands.  You -- you got

 3   laundry at your parents'?  

 4       A.     Yeah.  My parents' house I did laundry.  

 5       Q.     What else?  

 6       A.     That's it.  

 7       Q.     Did you actually do it or just pick it up or

 8   what?  

 9       A.     I'd been -- I had been working on it, put a

10   load in, pick it up, put a load in, pick it up.  

11       Q.     What time did you eat at McDonald's?  

12       A.     I'm not sure what time it was.  

13       Q.     Best guess.  

14       A.     Sometime in the afternoon.  We were running

15   all kinds of errands.  

16       Q.     Okay.  

17       A.     Went back to Chester.  

18       Q.     What time did you eat at McDonald's?  

19       A.     Somewhere around afternoon.  

20       Q.     What time?  

21       A.     It was 3:30, 3:00.  

22       Q.     3:30, 3:00?  

23       A.     Three o'clock.  

24       Q.     Three, 3:30?  

25       A.     Yeah.  

 1       Q.     You say you left the orchard at 3:30 or

 2   4:00.  

 3       A.     We got -- we got McDonald's right around

 4   then.  We left the orchard and went and had McDonald's.  

 5       Q.     Okay.  

 6       A.     We did a bunch of things.  We went

 7   landscaping.  We did a bunch of things together.  

 8       Q.     You left the orchard.  How -- how long after

 9   you left the orchard did you get McDonald's?  

10       A.     It was not too long after.  

11       Q.     Five minutes?  Ten minutes?  What?  

12       A.     Half hour.  Had McDonald's.  

13       Q.     Okay.  (Inaudible).

14       A.     We went to Chester.  

15       Q.     So did you do your errands before or after

16   you went to McDonald's?  

17       A.     We -- we were doing errands all at the same

18   time.  

19       Q.     Okay.  But did you do them before or after

20   you went to McDonald's?  

21       A.     Did errands before and after.  

22       Q.     Before and after?  What other errands did

23   you do besides going to your parents' and getting

24   laundry?  

25       A.     I can't take any more questions tonight.  

 1   I'm tired.  

 2               DET. SGT. JENKINS:  Okay.  Okay.  It's

 3   approximately 0133 hours.  I'm going to stop the

 4   recording.  

 5       (Thereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)