Jerry Ucci

19               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 20  BY MR. SAND. 

 21  Q.     Tell us your name, please?

 22  A.     My name is Jerry Ucci.

 23  Q.     How do you spell your last name?

 24  A.     U-C-C-I.

 25  Q.     How would you like me to address you this morning,


 01  Mr. Ucci, Jerry? 

 02  A.     Jerry is fine.

 03  Q.     Jerry, where do you live?

 04  A.     I live in Saxton's River.

 05  Q.     How old are you?

 06  A.     I'm twenty-one.

 07  Q.     Do you work?

 08  A.     Currently, no.  I actually lost my job over this.

 09  Q.     Okay.  Over this incident?

 10  A.     Yes.

 11  Q.     How was that?

 12  A.     I was working for Homestead Landscaping, and once

 13  they heard of the incident, they let me and Kyle Bolaski

 14  go.

 15  Q.     Who owns that business?

 16  A.     Steve and Tammy Blanchard.

 17  Q.     Okay.  So, back in August of this year, where were

 18  you living?

 19  A.     I was living in Chester.  I was actually staying

 20  with Kyle.

 21  Q.     Okay.  And how long have you known Kyle?

 22  A.     I met him in the springtime when me and him both

 23  got the job at Homestead Landscaping.  We became friends.

 24  Q.     So Kyle worked as well at Homestead Landscaping?

 25  A.     Yes, he did.


 01  Q.     Where is that business located? 

 02  A.     It's in Bondville, Vermont, near Stratton

 03  Mountain.

 04  Q.     Did you and Kyle Bolaski have the same job?

 05  A.     Yes.

 06  Q.     What did you guys do?

 07  A.     We were spray technicians.  We did pesticides and,

 08  you know, things of that nature.

 09  Q.     You shared an apartment?

 10  A.     Yes.

 11  Q.     Fair to say that you guys are good friends?

 12  A.     We have become pretty much best friends, yes.

 13  Q.     And how about in August of 08, had that best

 14  friendship developed by that time?

 15  A.     Yes, yes.

 16  Q.     Do you know his brother, Corey?

 17  A.     Yes, I do.

 18  Q.     How would you describe your relationship with

 19  Corey?

 20  A.     I'm good friends with Corey.

 21  Q.     So let me run through a cast of folks.  How about

 22  Tristan Blanchard?

 23  A.     I, I met Tristan for the first time, I think,

 24  three days before the incident.  So I didn't, I didn't

 25  really know him.


 01  Q.     Where did that meeting take place?

 02  A.     There was a gathering at a friend of ours, Gib's,

 03  and I ended up meeting him there.

 04  Q.     All right.  That's Gib Bastian?

 05  A.     Yes.

 06  Q.     And he's a friend of yours?

 07  A.     Yes, he is now, yes.

 08  Q.     Do you know Gib' ex-girl friend?

 09  A.     I do.  I went to school with Kirby.

 10  Q.     Kirby?

 11  A.     Yes.

 12  Q.     Do you know Tim Arbuckle?

 13  A.     I do. 

 14  Q.     How do you know Tim?

 15  A.     My sister actually has a daughter with his

 16  brother.

 17  Q.     Okay.  And how about Julie Kronberg?

 18  A.     Never met her.

 19  Q.     How about Vincent Tamburello, Jr.? 

 20  A.     Never met him.

 21  Q.     So focus your attention to the day of the shooting

 22  incident, August 17, and any of the days before that. 

 23  When's the first time that you heard that anybody was

 24  having difficulty with Vincent Tamburello?

 25  A.     I think it was late the evening before one of


 01  Kyle's friends had called and said there was some, some

 02  guy who started a fight, or something, but I, I never

 03  really heard of anything before that.

 04  Q.     And in some proceedings, what somebody else said

 05  you might not be able to talk about it.  In this

 06  proceeding, I may ask you to talk about what someone else

 07  told you that someone else said. 

 08  A.     Right.

 09  Q.     All right?  So did you have a discussion with

 10  Kyle, and in this discussion, learn that someone was

 11  having problems with Mr. Tamburello?

 12  A.     I did.

 13  Q.     Okay.  Did Kyle tell you who it was who was having

 14  difficulty with Mr. Tamburello?

 15  A.     Yes.

 16  Q.     Who was that?

 17  A.     Gib.

 18  Q.     So tell me what you learned, recognizing you

 19  learned it through Kyle?

 20  A.     He's, we didn't really talk about it too much.  He

 21  said there was just like a fight or something that had

 22  happened in Springfield, you know, and we didn't really

 23  get into it too much because we weren't concerned with

 24  it.  It had nothing to do with us.

 25  Q.     Didn't involve you?


 01  A.     Right.

 02  Q.     Do you know how Kyle learned that Gib had had a

 03  fight?

 04  A.     I think because Gib had called him and talked to

 05  him about it.

 06  Q.     If the ball field incident, the shooting, takes

 07  place on Sunday, when in relation to that did you have

 08  your conversation with Kyle where he told you about what

 09  Gib said?

 10  A.     This was late Saturday evening.

 11  Q.     Where did you spend Saturday night?

 12  A.     Spent the, Kyle and I spent the night at our

 13  apartment.

 14  Q.     I'll ask you, maybe with some questions from me,

 15  to walk through Sunday. 

 16  A.     Okay.

 17  Q.     So stupid question, where did you wake up on

 18  Sunday?

 19  A.     At the apartment.

 20  Q.     About what time?

 21  A.     I'd say it was around noon.

 22  Q.     We're learning that the sleeping habits of some

 23  people may be a little different, but I'm starting to

 24  understand one who sleeps at my house a little bit. 

 25               Okay.  Did Kyle spend the night there, as


 01  well? 

 02  A.     Yes.

 03  Q.     Anybody else?

 04  A.     No.

 05  Q.     Any pets?

 06  A.     Yes, Kyle's dog Harley.

 07  Q.     What did you do?  What time did you leave the

 08  house? 

 09  A.     Shortly after noon, we went from his house, we

 10  were supposed to go work for his father.  We went over to

 11  his father's house in Springfield.  We were kind of

 12  feeling lazy that day, and we decided against working. 

 13  We met up with his father and his brother around, I

 14  think, it was two-thirty.  Corey had just got done

 15  working, and we decided that the three of us were going

 16  to go out scouting for deer.

 17  Q.     The three, the third person being whom?

 18  A.     Corey Bolaski.

 19  Q.     What does Corey do for work?

 20  A.     Corey works at MJS Landscaping in Bellows Falls.

 21  Q.     He's landscaper, as well?

 22  A.     Yes.

 23  Q.     You and Kyle went from your place, from Chester to

 24  Kyle's dad's house in Springfield?

 25  A.     Correct.


 01  Q.     In what vehicle?

 02  A.     In Kyle's, Kyle's vehicle.

 03  Q.     What is that?

 04  A.     He has a Ford F350 pickup truck.

 05  Q.     Who drove that?

 06  A.     Kyle.

 07  Q.     Do you, did you do some landscaping?

 08  A.     Not on Sunday, no.

 09  Q.     So the plan was to do some, but you didn't do any?

 10  A.     Right, right.

 11  Q.     And was that for, if you had done it, would it

 12  have been for work purposes, or just because it was

 13  family?

 14  A.     Kyle's dad had actually hired us to do some

 15  landscaping at his house.

 16  Q.     Where did you meet up with Corey?

 17  A.     At Corey and Kyle's parents' house.

 18  Q.     Do you know how Corey got there?

 19  A.     He was working with his father that day, and they

 20  came back to the house and met us there.

 21  Q.     Did Corey have a vehicle there?

 22  A.     He, no, his truck was at his apartment, which was

 23  below Kyle, it was just below Kyle's and our apartment.

 24  Q.     Back in Chester?

 25  A.     Yes.


 01  Q.     So did you say Corey joined the two of you at this

 02  point?

 03  A.     He does.

 04  Q.     What do you do?

 05  A.     From there we drive back to Chester, we went to

 06  Lisai's Market and met up with a co-worker of ours who

 07  worked at Homestead with us, and he had told us about

 08  some property that his father owned in Chester that we

 09  could go scout, which was up on Popple Dungeon Road.

 10  Q.     Who is that co-worker?

 11  A.     His name is Ian Sutherland.

 12  Q.     Okay, go ahead. 

 13  A.     So we head to Popple Dungeon Road, and we found

 14  where the land was.  There was like a logging trail.  We

 15  ended up taking Kyle's truck down that, looking for deer. 

 16  Q.     Does Mr. Sutherland join you or --

 17  A.     No.

 18  Q.     He just got information?

 19  A.     We just got information from him.

 20  Q.     All right.  And so you are scouting?

 21  A.     Right.

 22  Q.     Now, we've heard that Mr. Bolaski is a hunter?

 23  A.     Yes.

 24  Q.     Kyle; is that correct?

 25  A.     Yes.


 01  Q.     Do you know if Corey is a hunter?

 02  A.     He is.

 03  Q.     And how about yourself?

 04  A.     I am.

 05  Q.     Who is driving after meeting with Mr. Sutherland,

 06  who is driving to the scouting area?

 07  A.     Kyle is.

 08  Q.     Still in Kyle's truck?

 09  A.     Yes.

 10  Q.     Is that right?

 11  A.     Yeah.

 12  Q.     Still in Kyle's truck?

 13  A.     Yes.

 14  Q.     How many guns are in the truck at this point?

 15  A.     One.

 16  Q.     What is that?

 17  A.     The .22 caliber rifle.

 18  Q.     Scope or no scope on that?

 19  A.     I think there's a scope.  Yeah, there's a scope on

 20  that.

 21  Q.     Whose gun is that?

 22  A.     That's Kyle's.

 23  Q.     Why is that in the vehicle?

 24  A.     He, he always has that in the vehicle.  It's,

 25  always in, it's always been in his truck ever since I can


 01  remember.

 02  Q.     Do you get out of the vehicle, do any of you get

 03  out of the vehicle at all during the scouting?

 04  A.     Yes.  I stopped to go to the bathroom. 

 05  Q.     Okay.  This is a Sunday, you've woken up at noon,

 06  you decide you're not going to go to work, you're going

 07  to go scouting?

 08  A.     Right.

 09  Q.     Anyone drink anything?

 10  A.     Yes.

 11  Q.     Okay.  Who and what?

 12  A.     Me and Kyle had had one or two beers apiece

 13  throughout the course of the afternoon.

 14  Q.     Okay.  Corey?

 15  A.     Corey, not that I know of, no.

 16  Q.     A bottle of vodka in the vehicle?

 17  A.     There was.

 18  Q.     Was some of that consumed?

 19  A.     I did drink some of that, yes.

 20  Q.     And did Corey have any?

 21  A.     Not that I know of.

 22  Q.     Did Kyle?

 23  A.     Not that I know of.

 24  Q.     During this afternoon -- and let me just tell you

 25  that I'm, I'll say on the record the answer to this


 01  question will not get you in trouble in any way -- were

 02  there any illegal drugs used?

 03  A.     Not used, but there was in the vehicle, yes.

 04  Q.     So let me ask you directly, did you -- what was

 05  the illegal drug?

 06  A.     I had some marijuana in the truck. 

 07  Q.     Did you smoke Marijuana on Sunday, August 17?

 08  A.     I did.

 09  Q.     You did? 

 10  A.     I did.

 11  Q.     Okay.  Did Corey?

 12  A.     Not that I know of.

 13  Q.     I'm sorry?

 14  A.     Not that I know of.

 15  Q.     Did Kyle?

 16  A.     No.

 17  Q.     You had it in the vehicle?

 18  A.     Yes.

 19  Q.     And you used some?

 20  A.     Yes.

 21  Q.     And your testimony is that Kyle did not and Corey

 22  did not?

 23  A.     That's correct.

 24  Q.     Do you know the name of the location where you

 25  went to scout deer?


 01  A.     No, it was off of a, of Popple Dungeon Road, it

 02  was a logging trail.

 03  Q.     Any landmarks, any --

 04  A.     No, pretty much down the middle of forest.

 05  Q.     Did you have a plan for the balance of the day?

 06  A.     No, we were just, you know, going with the flow. 

 07  It was, you know, taking a day off.  We worked, you know,

 08  usually fifty, fifty-five hours a week, so we needed a

 09  little break.

 10  Q.     Okay.  Understanding where we're heading with

 11  these events.  What, what's the next thing that happened

 12  that was of significance?

 13  A.     We got towards the end of the logging road, and I

 14  guess it was around the time that Kyle's mom's store was

 15  closing, she called Kyle because his dog was there, and

 16  she wanted us, you know, to come pick the dog up because

 17  she wanted to know what we were doing with the dog,

 18  obviously.  So he got off the phone with her, and we went

 19  back in his apartment, above his mother's store, so we

 20  went back there, and that's when we got Kyle's dog.  And

 21  at that point, we, Corey was a little upset because he

 22  was squished into the back of the truck, so we decided to

 23  take his truck, because he wanted to drive.  He was tired

 24  of being in the back seat.  So we went to the store,

 25  picked up Kyle's dog, and then got into his brother's


 01  truck.

 02  Q.     You went to the store, you picked up the dog, and

 03  because the Bolaski brothers live above the store --

 04  A.     Right.

 05  Q.     -- you switched trucks at that point?

 06  A.     Right, exactly.

 07  Q.     And Corey starts driving now?

 08  A.     Right.

 09  Q.     Does Kyle have a license, do you know?

 10  A.     He does.

 11  Q.     What's the plan?

 12  A.     There's an apple orchard up behind the Bolaski's

 13  parents' house that they have been hunting for years, so

 14  we decided to go there, and that was going to be our next

 15  place to go scouting.

 16  Q.     Before anyone gets to the ball field, so thinking

 17  about Sunday, before you get to the ball field, anyone

 18  discharge the rifle?

 19  A.     No.

 20  Q.     So during the scouting, is there any shooting at

 21  anything?

 22  A.     No.

 23  Q.     You switch into Corey's vehicle?

 24  A.     Correct.

 25  Q.     What happened, what happens to the .22?


 01  A.     It stayed in Kyle's truck.

 02  Q.     Stayed in Kyle's truck?

 03  A.     Correct.

 04  Q.     Is there a vehicle in Corey's vehicle -- is there

 05  a rifle in Corey's vehicle?

 06  A.     No.

 07  Q.     So at this point, when you're going up to the

 08  apple orchard, there's no weapon in the truck?

 09  A.     Correct.

 10  Q.     Do you go to that orchard?

 11  A.     No, we didn't make it to the orchard.  We left for

 12  the store, and we went up a back road that goes to

 13  Springfield, Tribow Road, and for some reason or another

 14  Kyle had called Tristan Blanchard because he's a friend

 15  of Kyle's.  I'm not sure why he called him but --

 16  Q.     Go ahead. 

 17  A.     And then that's when Tristan, I guess, was on the

 18  phone.  He, Kyle, said he sounded scared and upset, said

 19  that this guy Vinny was following him around town and

 20  driving back and forth by his house looking for him, so

 21  at that point Kyle asked Corey to turn around because

 22  Tristan was scared, he wanted to get out of there, so we

 23  were going to pick Tristan up and take him for a ride

 24  with us because he knew, we knew that Vinny didn't know

 25  who we were, didn't know our vehicle, and we just wanted


 01  to get Tristan out of that situation.

 02  Q.     Let me back up here.  Why does Kyle call Tristan?

 03  A.     I have no idea.

 04  Q.     It's a call out of blue?

 05  A.     Tristan's been a friend of Kyle's for awhile.  You

 06  know, I'm, he talks to him, you know, probably couple

 07  times a week.  He was just calling him, you know, to, I'm

 08  not sure why.

 09  Q.     You're clear it was Kyle who calls Tristan, not

 10  the other way around?

 11  A.     I'm ninety percent sure that's how it went.

 12  Q.     Does Kyle want to buy drugs?

 13  A.     No.

 14  Q.     About what time of the afternoon is that phone

 15  call?

 16  A.     I'd say it was around four o'clock or so.

 17  Q.     So obviously you can only hear one side of

 18  conversation?

 19  A.     Right.

 20  Q.     This is a cell phone conversation?

 21  A.     Yes.

 22  Q.     Kyle's cell phone?

 23  A.     Um.

 24  Q.     Yes?

 25  A.     Yes.


 01  Q.     Okay.  So what do you learn from Kyle after he

 02  ends his phone call?

 03  A.     I said, he said that this guy Vinny was looking

 04  for Tristan, wanted to fight him or something along those

 05  lines, and that he had been following him through town

 06  and driving back and forth in front of his house, and I

 07  guess Tristan was crying on the phone and pretty upset,

 08  so we just wanted to go get him and get him out of there.

 09  Q.     Did you do that?

 10  A.     We did.

 11  Q.     And you picked Tristan up?

 12  A.     Correct.

 13  Q.     So now who is in the vehicle?

 14  A.     Corey, Kyle, me, and Tristan, and Harley.

 15  Q.     Whose vehicle?

 16  A.     Corey's truck.

 17  Q.     What do you do?

 18  A.     From there we went through Chester by the Jiffy

 19  Mart, and we are going to go back to Springfield and

 20  continue our scouting.  When we got through the Chester

 21  depot, Tristan was obviously, he was talking to us about

 22  what was going on, he was, you know, pretty scared and

 23  upset.  He said he doesn't feel safe in his own home,

 24  he's never felt like he can't protect his girl friend

 25  ever, you know, in his life like this.  He said if he


 01  goes back home, he thinks that Vinny's going to show up

 02  and he's going to have a gun, he thought that, you know,

 03  the worst would happen with him. 

 04  Q.     He thought that Vinny might have a gun?

 05  A.     (Indicates)

 06  Q.     What did Tristan -- was that a yes in response?

 07  A.     Yes.  I'm sorry.

 08  Q.     What did Tristan tell you had been going on

 09  involving Vinny?

 10  A.     He said that there had been this incident with Ben

 11  Millay, I guess, and a phone call was placed between Ben

 12  and the girl, Julie, I guess, Vinny, Vinny was with

 13  Julie, and that Vinny had showed up at Tristan's house

 14  and walked in.  Tristan said he had stolen money from him

 15  and that he was, he was a scary guy, and that he was, you

 16  know, he walked right in his house and he wouldn't leave. 

 17  Q.     Did Tristan discuss an incident with Gib Bastian?

 18  A.     He did.  He talked to us about the fight, I guess,

 19  that had taken place the night before.

 20  Q.     Now, Tristan told us that it wasn't money that was

 21  taken, it was a bag of pot, of marijuana?

 22  A.     Well, that could be, but when we picked him up, he

 23  told us that it was money that was stolen off of him.

 24  Q.     Could you tell what was Tristan's demeanor, do you

 25  know what I mean, his attitude, his personality?


 01  A.     He was scared, crying, shaking.  He was pretty

 02  upset.

 03  Q.     What happened, what did you guys do?

 04  A.     Tristan said that he had tried getting a pistol

 05  from someone's father or something along those lines, and

 06  at that point in time Corey Bolaski suggested that he

 07  could, he has a rifle that Tristan could borrow for the

 08  night, in case, you know, the kid comes back, because he

 09  didn't feel safe, he said if Vinny comes back, he thinks

 10  he's going to have a gun so --

 11  Q.     Did Tristan ask for a gun, or was it offered

 12  to him; how did that happen?

 13  A.     No, he didn't ask for it.  Corey offered to help

 14  him, borrow one of his, because he told us he was looking

 15  for one.

 16  Q.     Tristan said that?

 17  A.     He did.

 18  Q.     So in response to him, Tristan, saying he was

 19  looking for a gun, what did you guys do?

 20  A.     From that point we, we drove past the apartment,

 21  and we headed into Gassetts.  We didn't pick up a rifle

 22  at that point in time.  We actually headed back towards

 23  Springfield.  We were going to go for a ride, we are

 24  trying to calm Tristan down.

 25  Q.     Do you at some point return to Chester to the


 01  Bolaski residence?

 02  A.     We do.

 03  Q.     How much later is that?

 04  A.     An hour and a half, I'd say, later.

 05  Q.     What do you do for an hour and a half?

 06  A.     We were just riding the back roads in Springfield.

 07  Q.     Who is drinking during that ride?

 08  A.     I was.

 09  Q.     Who else?

 10  A.     I was, I was the only one drinking.

 11  Q.     Kyle has stopped drinking now?

 12  A.     He did.

 13  Q.     Why?

 14  A.     I'm not sure why.  We only had a six-pack. 

 15  Q.     There's vodka, as well?

 16  A.     Right.

 17  Q.     Who is drinking that?

 18  A.     I only took a few sips off of it.  There was,

 19  there was some vodka left.

 20  Q.     You indicated that you had marijuana.  Did anyone

 21  smoke marijuana during this?

 22  A.     No.

 23  Q.     So, you go back to the Bolaski residence at some

 24  point?

 25  A.     Right.


 01  Q.     Why?

 02  A.     What had happened was when we were in Springfield,

 03  Corey's fuel light came on, he was low on gas, so we

 04  ended up throughout our adventure on the back roads, we

 05  came back to the Bolaski apartment because Kyle's truck

 06  had a full tank of gas, so we are going to get into

 07  Kyle's truck.  And the plan at that time, when we got to

 08  the apartment, was we were going to go back to Tristan's

 09  house and all hang out there at that point in time when

 10  we switched trucks, when Corey went there and got the

 11  rifle for Tristan to take home with him.

 12  Q.     Okay.  Before you switched trucks this time, has

 13  there been any telephone contact with Kirby Donahue or

 14  Vinny?

 15  A.     Yes.

 16  Q.     There has?

 17  A.     Yes.

 18  Q.     Okay.  When was there contact with either of those

 19  two people?

 20  A.     It was about twenty minutes after we left Chester. 

 21  Tristan was still upset and crying, and I thought since

 22  Vinny didn't know who I was or who the Bolaskis were, and

 23  we weren't involved in any of the situation, maybe I

 24  could call him up and try to figure out what, you know,

 25  is going on to see if, you know, maybe we could resolve


 01  this issue, so --

 02  Q.     Tristan issue?

 03  A.     Right.  And everyone else who had had a problem

 04  with him.  So I used Tristan's phone and called Kirby's

 05  phone.  She answered, and I asked to speak with Vinny. 

 06  Vinny got on the phone, and I asked him, you know, why

 07  you doing this, you know, what, what, what's the point of

 08  this?  Why can't you just leave everyone alone, you know. 

 09  Q.     Jerry, folks over here have heard some fairly

 10  salty language, we might say.  And they've heard the

 11  words that were actually used.  So, you seem like a

 12  polite person, but throughout as we talk about what goes

 13  on, if the actual words might not be words you ordinarily

 14  say in public, it's all right to go ahead and use them. 

 15  A.     Vinny got on the phone, and he asked me who I was. 

 16  I introduced myself, and he actually started screaming

 17  into the phone, and his words were, I'm fucking crazy, I

 18  already knocked your biggest friend out, which I assume

 19  would be Gib.  He said, he says, he said bring whoever

 20  you want, whatever you want to do.  He kept saying he was

 21  crazy, and he was swearing and screaming in the phony,

 22  couldn't even talk because he was screaming so loud into

 23  the phone.

 24  Q.     You responded pretty strongly, as well?

 25  A.     I did.  I actually got a little upset with him,


 01  obviously, because I didn't even know who he was, and

 02  he's screaming at me through the phone, and I was just

 03  trying to call to help solve the issue. 

 04  Q.     How did you respond?

 05  A.     What I said was we need to meet up because we

 06  need, we need to figure this whole thing out, and Vinny

 07  suggested, he goes, well, if you want to talk to me, you

 08  need to come to my fucking house, this and that.  Which

 09  was, I guess, on Summer Street.  He's giving me

 10  directions over the phone.  And during that conversation

 11  I actually loss cell phone service with him.  So at that

 12  point, I actually got nervous and scared because I

 13  didn't, I didn't know what this guy was, you know,

 14  planning on doing, what he was like, and that's when I

 15  called Tim, who --

 16  Q.     Tim Arbuckle?

 17  A.     Tim Arbuckle, right.  And Tim, you know, he's

 18  pretty much like a big brother to me, you know, I felt

 19  safer if maybe I knew where he was or if I was with him

 20  when we confronted the kid.  So I called him, and he said

 21  that he was down at the softball field and that there was

 22  a softball tournament going on.  He said if you want, you

 23  can have him meet down here where there's a bunch of

 24  people, you know, he wouldn't try anything.  So I then --

 25  Q.     Who talked to Tim?


 01  A.     I did.

 02  Q.     Anyone else talk to Tim?

 03  A.     No.

 04  Q.     What was Tim offered to come help out?

 05  A.     He wasn't offered anything.

 06  Q.     Go ahead. 

 07  A.     So at this point I called Kirby's phone back, and

 08  Kirby answered, and I told her, you know, we need to

 09  figure this out, you guys need to come meet us down to

 10  the ball field in fifteen minutes.

 11  Q.     This sounds like a diplomatic mission.  Was this a

 12  a plan, did you talk about there being a fight?

 13  A.     No.

 14  Q.     How about the discussion about telling them to

 15  bring whatever he wanted?

 16  A.     Vinny said you guys can bring whatever you want,

 17  he goes, he was, he was swearing and screaming on the

 18  phone saying, oh, it's not going to help, do whatever you

 19  want, this and that.  It was pretty much the extent of

 20  the conversation. 

 21  Q.     Were you talking to Vinny, or did you hear him in

 22  the background?

 23  A.     The first phone call was when that was taking

 24  place, I was actually talking to Vinny himself.

 25  Q.     The conversation where you discussed going to the


 01  ball field, who was that with?

 02  A.     Kirby.

 03  Q.     What do you do after relaying to Kirby to meet at

 04  the ball field?

 05  A.     We were in Springfield, we actually came down, we

 06  stopped at a convenience store.  Corey had to go to the

 07  bathroom, and then from there we head towards Chester

 08  towards the ball field, but we ended up going up some

 09  more back roads in Chester, and that's when Corey's fuel

 10  light turned on, and we ended up going to Gib's house

 11  because we were going to see if Gib was there, maybe we

 12  could ride with him or, you know, something like that. 

 13  But we went to Gib's, and he wasn't there, so we got out

 14  at Gib's.  At this point it had been thirty-five, almost

 15  forty minutes since I talked to Kirby last.  Tristan had

 16  called Gib and asked him if he could come up and pick us

 17  up or maybe everyone wanted to, you know, stay at Gib's

 18  house because it was, you know, out in the middle of

 19  nowhere.  And Gib said that he was, he was in Chester,

 20  that he wasn't going to come back to his house.  So at

 21  that point the new plan was to go back and get into

 22  Kyle's truck, because Kyle had a full tank of gas.

 23  Q.     Had a meeting time been arranged at the ball

 24  field?

 25  A.     Yeah, it was fifteen minutes, I told them to meet


 01  us there in fifteen minutes when we were in Springfield. 

 02  And when we got to Gib's, it was actually probably

 03  forty-five minutes after that phone call.

 04  Q.     Did you go back to change vehicles?

 05  A.     We did.  We went to the, our apartment and

 06  switched.

 07  Q.     What happened, what was the switch?

 08  A.     When we went there at this point, we figureed it

 09  was like an hour after the phone call, we figured, you

 10  know, he wasn't going to be at the ball field, we weren't

 11  concerned with going there at that point.  We were going

 12  to bring Tristan home and drop him off.  So, Corey went

 13  in to his apartment when we got there and grabbed the

 14  rifle for Tristan to bring home with him.

 15  Q.     What kind of rifle was that?

 16  A.     It was a 30-06 hunting rifle.

 17  Q.     Whose gun is that?

 18  A.     I believe it was Corey's.

 19  Q.     Scope or no scope?

 20  A.     No, no scope.

 21               COURT REPORTER:  Excuse me a moment. 

 22               Thank you.

 23  BY MR. SAND: 

 24  Q.     Who got the 30-06? 

 25  A.     Corey did.


 01  Q.     What did you do with that?

 02  A.     He put it in the back seat.

 03  Q.     Of whose vehicle?

 04  A.     Kyle's.

 05  Q.     What happens to the .22?

 06  A.     It's still in the truck.  It never left.

 07  Q.     Where do you go from there?

 08  A.     From there we had discussed going to Tristan's

 09  house and hanging out.  Corey wanted to go so Jiffy Mart

 10  to pick up a six-pack.  We're going to go back to

 11  Tristan's and all hang out there.  So from there we

 12  actually drove to the Jiffy Mart in Chester.  Corey went

 13  into the store to buy his six-pack, and at that point

 14  Mike Gleason had called Kyle's cell phone, and he said

 15  that this kid, Vinny, was just outside of his house

 16  screaming at him, threatening him, Mike was pretty upset,

 17  he was scared, also, and Tristan's girl friend and Gib,

 18  and I believe Jordan were at Mike's, too, when Vinny

 19  showed up.  So Tristan asked us to go down to Mike's

 20  because his girl friend was there, and, you know, he was

 21  afraid for her, so he wanted to go get her out of there. 

 22  So Corey had come out, and we headed down to Mike

 23  Gleason's house.  When we got to Mike Gleason's, he was

 24  standing out front with a shovel because he had been

 25  planting some hostas that me and Kyle dropped off for him


 01  earlier, I think it was either earlier that day or

 02  earlier Saturday, it was one of those two days, but he

 03  was, when we pulled up, he was scared, I mean, he was

 04  holding the shovel, shaking, and, I mean, Mike's a, he's

 05  a pretty good sized kid, and he was, he was scared.  When

 06  we pulled up, we pulled up in front of his house, and he

 07  actually waved us on, told us, you know, to keep going,

 08  because he didn't, you know, he didn't want anything to

 09  happen at his house.  And the next place, the ball field,

 10  is like two houses down from Mike's, so at that point I

 11  wanted to go talk to Tim, because everything was, you

 12  know, escalating, so we all ended up going back to the

 13  ball field. 

 14  Q.     Why is it escalating?

 15  A.     Because Vinny's driving around town at this point

 16  looking for people.  He was looking for Gib, and Tristan,

 17  because he wanted, wanted to fight them or something

 18  along those lines.

 19  Q.     Who is driving Kyle's truck?

 20  A.     Corey is.

 21  Q.     Why is Corey driving Kyle's truck?

 22  A.     Because Kyle had had a few beers.

 23  Q.     Where is Kyle?

 24  A.     In the passenger seat.

 25  Q.     Where are you?


 01  A.     I'm in the back.

 02  Q.     Where's Tristan?

 03  A.     He's in the back.

 04  Q.     Where is the 30-06?

 05  A.     In the back.

 06  Q.     Where?

 07  A.     It was in the middle in between the seat.

 08  Q.     I don't know what that means.  Is it bench? 

 09  A.     It's a bench seat, but there's like a little, I

 10  don't know what you call it --

 11  Q.     Seam?

 12  A.     A seam, yeah, they were actually underneath the

 13  center console in the front, and the butt end of it was

 14  on the back seat.

 15  Q.     You say they?

 16  A.     Both, both rifles, yes.

 17  Q.     So where do you go from Mike Gleason's house?

 18  A.     We went to the softball field.

 19  Q.     What happens next?

 20  A.     We pulled down into the softball field where, you

 21  know, everyone was there, was a bunch of cars down there. 

 22  We pulled up next to a few cars, and Gib, who was at

 23  Mike's, actually, followed us down in there, and he

 24  parked right next to us. 

 25  Q.     On which side of your vehicle is Gib's vehicle?


 01  A.     He's on the passenger side.

 02  Q.     Is there any vehicle between the pickup truck

 03  you're in and Gib's vehicle?

 04  A.     No.

 05  Q.     Okay.  What happens?

 06  A.     We had all got out, and Kyle obviously, it was a

 07  brand new truck, he had rifles in the truck, and there

 08  was kids playing, so he locked his truck, and we got out,

 09  and we started, you know, mingling with the crowd.

 10  Q.     Who had the keys?

 11  A.     Corey did.  We got out.

 12  Q.     How did Kyle lock the truck?

 13  A.     He just pushed the button, and it locks.  We got

 14  out, we started mingling, you know, with everyone who was

 15  down there.  There was some kids playing, you know,

 16  people hanging out.  And at this point I told him Tim

 17  about the kid being at Mike Gleason's, and Tim and Mike

 18  Gleason are, I guess, good friends, so Tim had called

 19  Mike to find out what was going on.  You know, we were

 20  down there for probably five to ten minutes, and Julie

 21  Kronberg's car pulled in with Vinny and Kirby.

 22  Q.     How do you know it's her car?

 23  A.     Because the people who knew it was her car said.

 24  Q.     Did you know it?

 25  A.     No, I didn't, no.


 01  Q.     You know what kind of a car it was?

 02  A.     It was a gray Pontiac.

 03  Q.     Do you know if that car had any noticeable damage

 04  to it?

 05  A.     No.

 06  Q.     Okay.  Where did they park in relation to where

 07  Corey had parked the truck?

 08  A.     They parked up on like the entrance road, and it

 09  was probably a hundred yards from where we were.

 10  Q.     What happened next?

 11  A.     Everyone who was down where, returned, because

 12  Vinny had gotten out of the car, and he was screaming

 13  from up there, waving a Tazer, screaming, Gib, Tristan,

 14  I'm going to fucking kill you, where are you guys.  You

 15  know, screaming all kinds of stuff.

 16  Q.     Had you ever seen this person you're calling Vinny

 17  before?

 18  A.     No.

 19  Q.     How do you know it was him?

 20  A.     Because Gib was, said that's, that's the guy.

 21  Q.     Okay.  So what was he saying?

 22  A.     He was screaming for Gib and Tristan, saying he

 23  was going to, you know, fucking kill them, and all, he

 24  was screaming all kinds of stuff, swearing.  He is

 25  screaming, I'm from Boston, you guys don't know who


 01  you're messing with, this and that, and that went on for

 02  a couple minutes. 

 03  Q.     Who from your group screamed back?

 04  A.     Tim.

 05  Q.     What did Tim say?

 06  A.     Tim told him to put the Tazer down, and I think he

 07  swore at him a few times.  And at this point Vinny handed

 08  the Tazer off to who I guess was Julie, because I had

 09  never met her, either, she was in the driver's seat, and

 10  then she started waving the Tazer out the window saying I

 11  got it, I got the fucking Tazer, you know.  And then

 12  Vinny was still screaming taunting us, trying to get us

 13  to go up there.  So Tim, Tim said, you know, this is

 14  enough, you know, this has got to stop.  So Tim

 15  approached, started approaching him, and then another

 16  person was following him, Tim, and then Kyle followed

 17  that person, and Corey and me, and one other person, you

 18  know, a big group of us were going to go up there.  And

 19  we were walking up there, we got, I'd say, from here to

 20  that door away.

 21  Q.     You're pointing to the back door of the courtroom?

 22  A.     The double door there, yes.  We got to, you know,

 23  that distance from him, and he was screaming at us, you

 24  know, telling us to come closer, come closer, and we had

 25  all stopped at that point.  We were trying to talk to


 01  him, you know, and then Tim took one more step forward,

 02  and at this point Vinny, the back door was open of the

 03  car, he reached in and grabbed the axe and started

 04  charging at us.  Tim ran.  I was in the center of the

 05  column of people.  Tim and some other kid on my left and

 06  Corey and Kyle and someone else was on my right.  I

 07  looked to my left.  I saw Tim and other kid running, and

 08  then I looked to my right, I saw them running.  And then

 09  I looked back up, and Vinny was from me to you running at

 10  full speed at me with the splitting maul drawn.  And at

 11  that point, I turned around and started running as fast

 12  as I could, because I obviously, he was coming at us with

 13  an axe.  We ran down the road.  I was the last one in

 14  line, and a girl, Jordan, was standing on the side of the

 15  pathway.  There's like a little fence, she was standing

 16  there, and I heard from behind me while I was running, I

 17  heard him say, I could kill this fucking cunt right now. 

 18  And I turned around, and he was, you know, within a

 19  swinging distance of Jordan.  So at this point I stopped,

 20  to get his, started screaming at him to get his attention

 21  back on me so he wouldn't go after her, and Kyle had

 22  stopped because he saw me stop.  Kyle came up behind me,

 23  and then Vinny started chasing us again.  And me and Kyle

 24  both turned around and ran.  I split off to the left and

 25  Vinny just zeroed right in on Kyle.  Kyle was running for


 01  his truck.  Vinny was right behind him.  Kyle ran for his

 02  door, went to grab the door handle, and the truck was

 03  locked.  So he obviously couldn't get in, he had slipped,

 04  and Vinny was right behind him.  And just as he slipped

 05  Vinny took a swing, and he hit the, Kyle's door of the

 06  truck right where Kyle was just standing.  If, you know,

 07  if Kyle hadn't of slipped he would have hit him in the

 08  back with the axe.  So at that point I ran around --

 09  there was some bathrooms right by the truck -- I ran

 10  around the back side of bathrooms, and Kyle had gone

 11  around the other side of the truck.  Corey saw that he

 12  was trying to get in, unlock the truck, I'm assuming,

 13  during, then when Kyle grabbed the rifle out of the

 14  truck --

 15  Q.     You're assuming because?

 16  A.     Well, because I had just come around the back of

 17  the bathroom.  I didn't really see which way he had gone,

 18  you know, and as I came around the bathroom, I saw Vinny

 19  smashing the side of the truck numerous times with the

 20  axe.

 21  Q.     Which side?

 22  A.     Driver's side.  Kyle then came around, I believe,

 23  it was the front side of his truck, and Vinny, Vinny saw

 24  him and went the other side, getting into the truck, and

 25  after Vinny saw that, he started going around the back


 01  side of the truck to get to Kyle.  Kyle had actually come

 02  around the front, and Vinny came back around like there. 

 03  Q.     Back around the back side?

 04  A.     Back around from where to where.  I just was, Kyle

 05  had pulled up and told him to stop, you know, stop coming

 06  at me, stop, stop.

 07  Q.     Did you hear Kyle speak?

 08  A.     I did at this point.  I was, I'd say, five feet

 09  behind Kyle.  Kyle was screaming for him to stop.  He

 10  didn't stop.  He was within, you know, one, one swing. 

 11  He could have hit Kyle with the axe at this point.  And

 12  that's when Kyle fired.  Now the first shot he was

 13  shooting at his left leg.  I didn't actually see it go

 14  into his leg.  I saw the ground behind explode.  I saw

 15  dirt, you know, fly up.  Vinny was so unphased by that

 16  first shot that I thought Kyle had completely missed him. 

 17  At this point Jordan had come running from behind me, and

 18  she was coming up behind to grab Kyle.  And I saw her,

 19  and I ran and picked her up to get her out of there, and

 20  I picked her up and ran her back to the crowd of people

 21  to hand her off to get her, you know, out of the

 22  situation.  Somewhere during that point in time is when

 23  Corey had grabbed the .22 out of the truck because the

 24  windows were smashed out, and he didn't want, you know,

 25  Vinny to see there's another gun in there, you know, and


 01  start using it on someone.  So I had, I handed Jordan off

 02  to the group of people, and I couldn't see Kyle at this

 03  point.  He was, I'm assuming, around the back side of his

 04  truck somewhere because I couldn't, I couldn't tell where

 05  he was.  And I looked up, and I saw Corey backpedaling

 06  with the rifle in the front of Kyle's truck, and I saw

 07  Vinny coming at Corey, and at that point I turned to

 08  start running, you know, to get out of there, and Corey

 09  fired his rifle twice.  I now know that it was into the

 10  ground, but at that point in time I thought Corey had

 11  actually shot him.

 12  Q.     Did you hear two gunshot rounds discharged?

 13  A.     From Corey's gun, yes.

 14  Q.     How did you know it was Corey's gun?

 15  A.     I could see it.  You can hear, I mean, I've been

 16  hunting for probably twelve years, so I, I know the, you

 17  know, the sounds between the two.

 18  Q.     What happens next?

 19  A.     I was running when Corey fired.  I thought he

 20  actually, he shot.  I thought he shot him, too.  At this

 21  point I started freaking out, and I ran as fast as I

 22  could to get ahold of his parents, because I knew that,

 23  you know, obviously either going to need their parents, I

 24  thought that Corey had actually shot him.  So, I had at

 25  this point, I pretty much blocked out.  I was just


 01  running as fast as I could.  I never heard Kyle fire

 02  again because I was obviously so shooken up, I didn't,

 03  you know, I was just trying to get out of there.  I ran

 04  probably a couple hundred yards.  I looked back, and I

 05  saw Vinny laying on the ground.  Then I turned back

 06  around and ran into the woods.

 07               MR. SAND:  What is the pleasure of the

 08  group?  In terms of a break.  I think the court reporter

 09  is part of the group, as well.

 10               I think I have fifteen more minutes.  We

 11  anticipate the group would have some questions. 

 12               MR. KELLEY:  You people like to take,

 13  would be a break, Mr. Ucci.  We wouldn't want to, don't

 14  want to keep you here any longer.  We also want to make

 15  sure time we have to fully understand what you know about

 16  this event.  If we were to take a break, it would be

 17  until about one o'clock.  

 18               Do people want to continue?  And take a

 19  break afterwards?

 20               JUROR:  Yeah. 

 21               MR. KELLEY:  That would be good.

 22               MR. SAND:  I'm sure Nancy's going to like

 23  that.

 24               MR. KELLEY:  Is that okay with you, Nancy? 

 25  If we continue on? 


 01               Was that a no? 

 02               JUROR:  She doesn't want to be part of the

 03  record. 

 04               MR. KELLEY:  Sure, we can, we can try to

 05  keep it to half an hour.

 06               MR. SAND:  You tell me.

 07               MR. KELLEY:  In the interest of time, that

 08  half an hour. 

 09               MR. SAND:  So we will resume at quarter of

 10  one? 

 11               MR. KELLEY:  Good.

 12               THE COURT:  Mr. Ucci, it's important that

 13  you, nothing said in this room can be discussed with

 14  anyone other than perhaps an attorney; okay? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  Um-hum. 

 16               MR. SAND:  So, we'll see you back here at

 17  quarter of one.

 18               THE WITNESS:  All right.

 19               MR. SAND:  All right.

 20               JUROR:  You okay?

 21               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, thank you.

 22               JUROR:  We have cookies and water and

 23  coffee. 

 24               (Recess, 12:13 - 1:50 p.m.)

 25               MR. KELLEY:  The grand jury is seated,


 01  Mr. Sand.

 02               MR. CAHILL:  Mr. Foreman, you want to

 03  remind him he's still under oath? 

 04               MR. KELLEY:  That's a good idea. 

 05               MR. KELLEY:  Thanks for coming back in. 

 06  We're sorry for the delay.  Just remember you're under

 07  oath.  If you'd like me to read it again to you, I'd be

 08  happy to.

 09               THE WITNESS:  That's all right.

 10               MR. KELLEY:  Okay.  Thank you.

 11  BY MR. SAND: 

 12  Q.     Jerry, what I'd like you to do is describe what

 13  happens from the moment you first see the axe or the

 14  splitting maul? 

 15  A.     Describe --

 16  Q.     Tell us what happened. 

 17  A.     I was a little bit in shock, obviously.  I never

 18  had someone that, of that size or, you know, I've never

 19  had any one come at me like that before.  I would say I

 20  was scared for my life.  I didn't, I didn't want to get

 21  hit, you know, with an axe.  He had chased us, you know,

 22  down through the ball field, and like I said, he went

 23  after the, I heard him, you know, going after the girl. 

 24  Q.     That's Jordan?

 25  A.     Jordan, right.  And I don't know what made me


 01  stop, I guess, I don't know, I just wanted to make sure

 02  she was all right, you know, so I stopped to get his

 03  attention off of her on to me. 

 04  Q.     Did you throw anything?

 05  A.     I did.  I threw a beer bottle towards him, not at

 06  him, but near him to get his attention back onto me.

 07  Q.     Did that seem to work?

 08  A.     It worked, yeah.  Then he came chasing me, and I

 09  guess Kyle was right behind me, and Kyle started running

 10  with me, and I split off to the left, and he started

 11  going after Kyle.  Kyle had gone for his truck, and

 12  he had slipped, and Vinny was, you know, couple steps

 13  behind him and swung the axe.

 14  Q.     Okay.  Is Kyle zigzagging at all or beelining?

 15  A.     It was a straight line to get into his truck.

 16  Q.     Is the man with the axe going in a straight line?

 17  A.     Yeah, he was couple steps straight behind him.

 18  Q.     At the time that Kyle touches his truck, how far

 19  back you think is the man with the axe?

 20  A.     He was, he was close, he was within swinging

 21  distance of Kyle.

 22  Q.     What happens?

 23  A.     Kyle went for the door, and he, you know, he was

 24  running full speed, and he went to stop, obviously, to

 25  get the door open, and he slipped, he fell, and as he was


 01  falling, Vinny came through with the axe and hit the

 02  truck where Kyle was just standing.

 03  Q.     Where are you standing?

 04  A.     At this point I was running to go around the

 05  bathroom.  I could see the truck just before the

 06  bathroom.

 07  Q.     And what happens after the man swings the axe the

 08  first time?

 09  A.     He hits the truck, and Kyle had rolled over or,

 10  you know, rolled out of way, or, you know, crawled out of

 11  the way.  At that point I went back side of the bathroom

 12  towards where the front of the truck was, and Kyle had at

 13  this point, I saw him, he was on the passenger side of

 14  his truck, and when I looked up, Vinny was smashing the

 15  driver's side with the axe numerous times.

 16  Q.     How many times did you see Vinny strike the truck?

 17  A.     It's hard to have an exact number.  I'd say at

 18  least five times.

 19  Q.     When you see Kyle now on the passenger side, does

 20  he have the rifle?

 21  A.     No, he didn't have it yet.  He had just gotten the

 22  passenger door open.

 23  Q.     What, if anything, did you see him do?

 24  A.     I didn't see him actually, you know, physically

 25  grab the rifle or, you know, load it, or, you know,


 01  whatever happened there.  When I came around the

 02  bathroom, I saw him on that side of truck, and after

 03  Vinny got done hitting the truck the last time, saw him

 04  there, Vinny saw Kyle over there and started going around

 05  the back of the truck to get to Kyle on the other side.

 06  Q.     When Kyle gets the gun, have you already come

 07  around the bathroom?

 08  A.     Yes.

 09  Q.     Once Kyle has the rifle, who makes the next move

 10  at that point?

 11  A.     Kyle came around the front of his truck with the

 12  rifle, Vinny saw him coming around and came back from

 13  around the back of the truck back towards him, Kyle had

 14  pulled up on him, told him to stop, he told him to stop

 15  numerous times.  I was only a couple feet behind Kyle to

 16  his right, I could see it clearly, Vinny was coming at

 17  him, he was within, you know, one step and a wing of

 18  hitting Kyle before Kyle fired.  Like I said, when Kyle

 19  fired at his leg, Vinny was so unphased, I actually

 20  thought Kyle had missed him

 21  Q.     Do you know which gun Kyle had?

 22  A.     It was the 30-06.

 23  Q.     How do you know that?

 24  A.     Because you can, it's bigger, you can tell the

 25  difference between the two.


 01  Q.     Bigger in size, bigger in sounds?

 02  A.     Yeah, both.

 03  Q.     Both?

 04  A.     Yes.

 05  Q.     Which side of the truck are they on?

 06  A.     The driver's side.

 07  Q.     Is Kyle toward the front of the vehicle, shooting

 08  toward the back, or toward the back shooting toward the

 09  front?

 10  A.     He's right next to the driver's door shooting to

 11  the back of the truck.

 12  Q.     Okay.  What happens after first shot is fired?

 13  A.     The crowd obviously, you know, started panicking,

 14  everyone started panicking.  Like I said, out of corner

 15  of my eye, I saw Jordan running for Kyle, she was going

 16  to try to grab him from behind.  She was within, you

 17  know, like two steps of grabbing him.  And I, I don't

 18  even know how I reacted, and grabbed her, and turned

 19  around, and ran her back to the crowd of people who were

 20  standing by the tent.  At that point when I looked back,

 21  Kyle and him, I couldn't see where they were, they were

 22  behind his truck, I was over toward the front, so I

 23  couldn't actually see what their steps, you know, where

 24  they were going.  And I came back around to where I was

 25  originally standing by the bathroom, and at that point I


 01  had saw Corey grabbing the other rifle out of the truck. 

 02  And he looked up at Corey, he was backpedaling like in

 03  between, there was a truck parked, a truck or jeep parked

 04  in front of Kyle's truck, and Corey was backpedaling in

 05  between the two with the .22 drawn, and saw Vinny coming

 06  at him.  And at that point I turned to start running, and

 07  Corey fired twice.  I didn't see that he fired into the

 08  ground.  I thought, you know, that he actually fired at

 09  Vinny.  So at this point I went and into complete panic

 10  mode, couldn't even, the only thing I could think of was

 11  to get their parents because, you know, I knew obviously

 12  they were in trouble.

 13  Q.     At the time that Corey fired twice, what direction

 14  was he traveling in?

 15  A.     He was running backwards.  The front of truck is

 16  here, he was running backwards like this.

 17  Q.     Was he running backwards?

 18  A.     Yeah, was he was backpedaling with the gun drawn.

 19  Q.     In relation to where the direction Corey was

 20  headed, what direction was Vinny headed?

 21  A.     He was coming straight at him.

 22  Q.     What was Kyle doing at this point?

 23  A.     I couldn't see Kyle at that point.  I didn't, I

 24  didn't know where Kyle was.

 25  Q.     So did you then hear another shot?


 01  A.     I didn't.  All I heard was Corey's two shots, and

 02  then I just, I freaked out and started panicking and just

 03  ran.  I didn't find out that Kyle had actually shot a

 04  second time until the next day. 

 05  Q.     Did you leave the scene at this point?

 06  A.     I did.  I ran to get his parents.

 07  Q.     Did you ever see Vinny on the ground? 

 08  A.     I did.  I stopped probably three hundred yards

 09  from the truck, looked back, and saw Vinny laying, I

 10  think it was like behind Gib's car on the ground.

 11  Q.     That as relates to Kyle's truck, which side of

 12  Kyle's truck would Vinny have gone on the ground?

 13  A.     The passenger's.

 14  Q.     Did you see anyone around him?

 15  A.     I didn't.

 16  Q.     You -- no?

 17  A.     No.

 18               MR. SAND:  Your witness.

 19               JUROR:  You said when you called, finally

 20  got to talk to Vinny, you were calling just to see what

 21  was going on, but Vinny made reference to guys can agree

 22  on bring what you need to bring.  You mention the, about

 23  anything you had, weapons or things, I guess, like that?

 24               THE WITNESS:  No.

 25               JUROR:  Why would he say that? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  I'm assuming he thought

 02  because there was, I guess there was a large amount of

 03  people who confronted him the night before, he thought

 04  that maybe I was calling up to, to try to, you know, do

 05  something to him or, you know, so I, I didn't know even

 06  who he was.  I was just calling to see, I thought he

 07  didn't know who I was, so he can't be mad at me because I

 08  haven't done anything to him, so I figured I can maybe

 09  talk to him, trying, try to figure out what was going on.

 10               JUROR:  Thank you.

 11               JUROR:  Were you aware of any ammunition

 12  for those guns in the car? 

 13               THE WITNESS:  Yes.  There was a clip that

 14  goes in 30-06 that had been put in the glove box of

 15  Kyle's truck when the gun was put in the truck. 

 16               JUROR:  And that's all? 

 17               THE WITNESS:  That's all.

 18               JUROR:  So that how you would load the

 19  30-06 with, slip the clip into it? 

 20               THE WITNESS:  Correct.  You have to slide

 21  a clip in and then actually cock the gun.

 22               JUROR:  So how many bullets are in this

 23  clip? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  I think there was three.

 25               JUROR:  So when you slide the clip in and


 01  you pull it back, you can then fire it, and then if you

 02  want to fire it again, you just pull the thing back

 03  again? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  No, it was a semi-automatic

 05  gun.  Once it's loaded, and you cock it back, then you

 06  can fire through your clip without --

 07               JUROR:  -- without having to reload.  So

 08  it was all set at that point, okay.

 09               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 10               JUROR:  If you already had the .22 in the

 11  truck, and you were supposedly going to give Tristan a

 12  weapon to protect himself, why did, why was the larger

 13  gun chosen to give him and not the .22, which was a

 14  smaller caliber? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  Because when we suggested to

 16  give Tristan the 30-06, we were in Corey's truck.  The

 17  .22 was not in Corey's truck.  It was in Kyle's truck. 

 18  Corey was the one suggested to give Tristan the gun. 

 19  Corey was actually giving his rifle.  Kyle wasn't giving

 20  him his.

 21               JUROR:  Seems like you know a fair amount

 22  about these.  What conditions were the weapons in?  I

 23  mean, ready, good condition? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  They were, I mean, we've

 25  been, you know, we've gone through hunter safety course


 01  numerous times.  We've been trained to, you know, only

 02  use it, you know, for hunting purposes.  We know, we've

 03  been told never to use it against people unless, you

 04  know, absolutely have to.  You know, it goes against

 05  everything we've ever been taught throughout our entire

 06  life growing up, you know.

 07               JUROR:  Both weapons are in full working

 08  order? 

 09               THE WITNESS:  I mean, we take care, you

 10  know, obviously, you know, we've been taught to take care

 11  of, you know, our stuff.

 12               JUROR:  Thank you.

 13               JUROR:  So you said it was no damage to

 14  either weapon at all? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  No.

 16               JUROR:  No.

 17               THE WITNESS:  Not that I know of.  They

 18  weren't mine, so I didn't. 

 19               JUROR:  When you're riding and scouting,

 20  were the guns loaded? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  We never went scouting with

 22  the guns loaded. 

 23               JUROR:  The .22 was never loaded? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  No.

 25               JUROR:  Are you saying that the clip for


 01  the 30-06 was in the glove compartment?

 02               THE WITNESS:  Correct. 

 03               JUROR:  At the time that the incident

 04  happened? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  Correct.

 06               JUROR:  So it helps me understand, the

 07  individual would have had to have gotten the clip out of

 08  glove box, gotten in the vehicle, got the clip out of

 09  glove box, loaded the weapon, and then shot? 

 10               THE WITNESS:  Exactly.

 11               JUROR:  Okay. 

 12               JUROR:  And also would it have taken Corey

 13  a little bit of time to load the .22, would you say? 

 14               THE WITNESS:  Oh, I'm sure, yeah, yeah.

 15               JUROR:  He had the shells with him.

 16               THE WITNESS:  I don't know.  You know,

 17  they weren't mine.  I don't know, you know, where they

 18  were kept, you know, their stuff.  I wasn't sure.

 19               JUROR:  Were they rolling around the

 20  floor? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  No, they were, the guns

 22  were, you know, they were, they were stuffed in between

 23  the crack in the seat, and they were setting on the back

 24  seat.

 25               JUROR:  Is there reason to assume they'd


 01  taken a fair amount of time and effort to get them out;

 02  right.

 03               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, you know, they have

 04  been loading and unloading weapons for ten years, so I'm

 05  sure they can probably do it, you know, pretty fast.

 06               JUROR:  Are you positive that the guns

 07  were not loaded?  I mean, how would you know they were

 08  not loaded? 

 09               THE WITNESS:  I know for sure that the

 10  30-06 wasn't, because I watched him put the clip into the

 11  glove box.  As far as the .22, I don't know, you know, if

 12  that was loaded or if, if they had to load it, you know. 

 13               JUROR:  Is it possible that was an extra

 14  clip; would you know for sure that it wasn't loaded? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  No, it was unloaded.  There

 16  was only one clip.

 17               JUROR:  You're positive? 

 18               THE WITNESS:  I'm positive, yes.

 19               JUROR:  So if Corey's gun was 30-06, and

 20  Kyle's was the .22, how did he end up switching the guns? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  The .22 never left Kyle's

 22  truck.  When we went back to switch from Corey's truck to

 23  Kyle's truck, Corey then grabbed the 30-06 from his

 24  apartment and put it in Kyle's truck. 

 25               JUROR:  I understand that.  I'm sorry,


 01  asked the question incorrectly.  At the scene of the

 02  accident, Kyle had 30-06? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 04               JUROR:  Which was not his gun? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  It was probably just the

 06  closest one, you know, probably just was reacting,

 07  happened in, you know, less than a minute, you know, he

 08  was just, probably just went in and grabbed whatever one

 09  he got first, you, you, you know, Kyle, if he's going to

 10  grab it in a minute. 

 11               JUROR:  Meanwhile Vinny's ranting and

 12  ramming the driver's door? 

 13               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, he was still smashing

 14  the side of the truck.

 15               JUROR:  Five times, you said.

 16               THE WITNESS:  Yes, something like that. 

 17               JUROR:  Does this truck have four doors? 

 18               THE WITNESS:  It does, it's the back door

 19  folds out this way.

 20               JUROR:  Does it have a separate handle for

 21  the back doors? 

 22               THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, there's a handle

 23  on the inside of the door.

 24               JUROR:  Not on the outside? 

 25               THE WITNESS:  No.


 01               JUROR:  If I'm standing on the outside of

 02  the truck to get into the back seat, I have to open the

 03  front door? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  Okay.

 05               JUROR:  Okay? 

 06               JUROR:  There's a point where, where

 07  according to what you've told us, where Vinny just

 08  narrowly misses hitting Kyle.  And then Kyle gets up,

 09  goes all the way around the front of his vehicle, opens

 10  the door, opens the glove compartment, gets the weapon,

 11  loads the weapon.  Could Kyle have done something else

 12  during that length of time?  In other words, could he

 13  have, could he have done something to keep himself safer

 14  than that, you think? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  Vinny wasn't, he was

 16  there to hurt someone with that axe.  He was not going to

 17  stop.  And, you know, he wasn't just going to just say

 18  okay, I just smashed the side of your truck, and leave. 

 19  You know, he was determined to do harm to someone.

 20               JUROR:  Right.  But if that's the case,

 21  would Vinny have turned his attention away from Kyle and

 22  started to focus on the truck, or would he have continued

 23  after Kyle and again -- I know that it's --

 24               THE WITNESS:  See, I'm not sure, at this

 25  point I think Kyle was just thinking about the safety of


 01  the, himself, obviously, because he almost got hit with

 02  an axe, his brand-new truck is being destroyed.

 03               JUROR:  Right.

 04               THE WITNESS:  And the other twenty people

 05  who are standing there.  He knew, I mean, someone was

 06  going to get, he was determined to hurt someone.

 07               JUROR:  I have a question.  So he's

 08  pounding the truck.  And everybody else is sort of

 09  motionless.

 10               THE WITNESS:  Yes.

 11               JUROR:  Instead of taking cover, nobody

 12  else --

 13               THE WITNESS:  Some people took off, most

 14  people, they were just, they were frozen, you know, they,

 15  no one in Chester had ever seen anything like that, no

 16  one ever expected anything like that to happen, you know. 

 17  I mean, anyone who is from Chester wouldn't have done

 18  something like that.  You know, so it was pretty

 19  unexpected.  And everyone was just, you know, couldn't,

 20  couldn't believe what was happening, you know.

 21               JUROR:  Now, you said when he was swinging

 22  the axe and almost hit him, then when he run around the

 23  front, Vinny followed him? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  No, he kept smashing the

 25  truck at that point.


 01               JUROR:  So he had time to open the front

 02  door? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 04               JUROR:  Get the cartridge? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 06               JUROR:  Also got to open the back door to

 07  get in there? 

 08               THE WITNESS:  Because where the gun was

 09  sitting, you can actually, I mean, it's not a really big

 10  cab, you could grab it from the front.

 11               JUROR:  You could.

 12               THE WITNESS:  Actually you could. 

 13  Because, I mean, the front seat is just two bucket seats,

 14  there's an opening in the middle, and the guns were in

 15  the middle there, so you could reach in and --

 16               JUROR:  Oh.

 17               THE WITNESS:  Right.

 18  BY MR. SAND: 

 19  Q.     You watched Kyle put the clip into the glove box? 

 20  A.     I did watch him put it in the glove box. 

 21  Q.     Where did that take place? 

 22  A.     At the house when we loaded the gun into the

 23  truck.

 24  Q.     How many people did it take to load the gun into

 25  the truck?


 01  A.     One, one, Corey brought the gun out.

 02  Q.     Corey brought the gun out, and Kyle went in and

 03  got the clip?

 04  A.     No, no, Corey brought both out.  While we were at

 05  the apartment, Corey had actually showed him how to load

 06  the rifle.

 07  Q.     Showed --

 08  A.     Tristan.  And then they pulled the clip out.  I

 09  watched Kyle put it in the glove box. 

 10  Q.     When Vinny is smashing the truck, where is the

 11  dog?

 12  A.     In the truck.

 13  Q.     What happened to the dog?

 14  A.     When the door got opened on the passenger side,

 15  the dog ran out, jumped out of the truck and ran.

 16  Q.     Is the dog okay?

 17  A.     Yeah, the dog's fine.

 18               JUROR:  And can you remind me again, you

 19  may have told me this, but I apologize, how did the door

 20  get unlocked, again?  Where was Corey?

 21               THE WITNESS:  Corey was on the passenger

 22  side of the truck, and he saw, obviously, Kyle going for

 23  the truck to open the door, and Corey had the keys, and

 24  he saw that it was locked, obviously, and he actually

 25  pushed the unlock button so Kyle could get into the


 01  truck.

 02               JUROR:  So at this point in time, could

 03  Corey have grabbed other weapon at this point in time? 

 04               THE WITNESS:  Could he have?  He could

 05  have, but he didn't. 

 06               JUROR:  Could Corey have got to a weapon

 07  sooner, quicker, faster than Kyle? 

 08               THE WITNESS:  I don't think so, because

 09  Corey was standing back from the truck on the passenger

 10  side, a pretty good distance so --

 11               JUROR:  So he used remote; right, it's   

 12  a --

 13               JUROR:  Got it out of his pocket or

 14  wherever it was? 

 15               THE WITNESS:  Right, right. 

 16               JUROR:  You made reference to the point of

 17  Kyle's truck being new.  Would you say that was his prize

 18  possession? 

 19               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, I mean, he, he liked

 20  his truck a lot.  He had only had it for couple months,

 21  maybe.  It was the first brand-new truck he's ever had

 22  so --

 23               JUROR:  When Kyle slipped, he slipped

 24  under the vehicle, beside the vehicle, grabbed onto

 25  something? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  When he slipped, he fell on

 02  his back, and it was, you know, directly down from the

 03  door.

 04               JUROR:  Good.

 05               JUROR:  You made reference that you were

 06  the only one that was drinking beer, smoking weed and --

 07               THE WITNESS:  No.

 08               JUROR:  -- drinking vodka? 

 09               THE WITNESS:  No, I said me and Kyle had a

 10  few beers.

 11               JUROR:  I thought I understood first you

 12  only had a couple beers each? 

 13               THE WITNESS:  Yeah. 

 14               JUROR:  Okay.  Also made reference later

 15  on that he switched, not wanting to drive vehicle because

 16  he already had a few beers?  I'm just unclear as to how

 17  much.

 18               THE WITNESS:  We had a six-pack split

 19  between the two of us.  That was it.

 20               JUROR:  Okay.  So more than two beers? 

 21               THE WITNESS:  Yes, two to three beers,

 22  yes.

 23               JUROR:  So looks like a fair amount of

 24  time between when the fifteen minutes, fifteen-minute

 25  phone call made and you guys get there? 


 01               THE WITNESS:  I'd say there was almost

 02  hour and a half between there. 

 03               JUROR:  You're still on those last couple

 04  of beers? 

 05               THE WITNESS:  No, no, not at that time.

 06               JUROR:  You had got another one? 

 07               THE WITNESS:  No, we hadn't had any more

 08  beers at this point.  Corey wanted to go to the store to

 09  get a six-pack so we could go back to Tristan's and have

 10  a few beers.

 11               JUROR:  Okay.

 12               JUROR:  Then what was it that you threw at

 13  Vinny? 

 14               THE WITNESS:  A beer bottle.

 15               JUROR:  Okay.  And where does that beer

 16  bottle come from. 

 17               THE WITNESS:  When I got down to the ball

 18  field, I had actually had one of beers that Corey had

 19  bought at the store. 

 20               JUROR:  In reference to Kyle's slipping

 21  and Vinny trying to hit him with the splitting maul, the

 22  axe, would it be your opinion that he missed Kyle and hit

 23  the truck? 

 24               THE WITNESS:  Yeah, if Kyle hadn't

 25  slipped, it could have hit him right in the center of his


 01  back.

 02               JUROR:  Then he just got wrapped up in it? 

 03               THE WITNESS:  Then he just kept, kept

 04  hitting, hitting it, and hitting it. 

 05               MR. SAND:  Mr. Ucci, thank you very much.

 06               THE WITNESS:  Thank you. 

 07               JUROR:  Thank you.