THE FOLLOWING ARE THE POLICE STATEMENTS AND GRAND JURY STATEMENTS OF TRISTAN BLANCHARD. YOU WILL SEE HOW MUCH HIS STATEMENTS ARE SO DIFFERENT. HOW HIS STORY CHANGES TO MATCH KYLES. IN HIS INITIAL STATEMENTS TO THE POLICE HE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT GUNS WERE EVER MENTIONED. THAT COREY NEVER OFFERED HIM THE GUN. YOU WILL SEE HOW HIS STORY CHANGES AS TO WHEN VINNIE WAS AT HIS HOUSE BETWEEN HIS INITIAL STATEMENTS AND HIS GRAND JURY STATEMENTS. THEN COMPARE THESE TO HIS TESTIMONY AT THE TRIAL. YOU WILL SEE THE MANY TIMES HE LIED AND COMMITTED PERJURY. YOU WILL WONDER WHY HE HAS NOT YET BEEN INDICTED AND YOU WILL KNOW WHY HE'S STILL ON THE STREET COMMITTING CRIMES...
20 Q. Okay. So Corey went into the house and
21 brought out a gun?
22 A. Um hum.
23 Q. Okay. And why did they do that?
24 A. For protection as far as I'm concerned.
25 Q. Did they say something?
1 A. Did they say --
2 Q. Did they make comment about I'm going to get
3 my gun or anything like that?
4 A. No. No.
5 Q. They just came out and had the guns?
6 A. Um hum.
1 STATE OF VERMONT
WINDSOR COUNTY, SS.
STATE OF VERMONT ) WINDSOR DISTRICT COURT
4 ) DOCKET NO. 972-8-08 Wrcr
KYLE BOLASKI, ) Digital Recording
6 Defendant. )
12 TRISTAN BLANCHARD
As recorded on August 18, 2008, at the Vermont
14 State Police Barracks, Rockingham, Vermont.
19 DET. SGT. WALT SMITH
1 (August 18, 2008)
2 DET. SGT. WALT SMITH: This is Detective
3 Sergeant Walt Smith of the Vermont State Police.
4 Today's date is 8/18/2008. The time now is 1716 hours.
5 I'm at the Rockingham barracks, state police barracks.
6 I'm in an office. And here with me is --
7 Q. Sir, would you please state your full name
8 and date of birth for the record? And this will pick up
9 your voice. You don't have to lean into it or anything.
10 A. Okay. Tristan Ryan Blanchard, 03/27/86.
11 Q. Okay. And Tristan, you already told me, but
12 could you please, for the record, tell us your actual
13 physical address?
14 A. My actual physical address is 23 School
15 Street, Chester, Vermont.
16 Q. Okay. And what's your social security
17 number, Tristan?
18 A. xxx-xx-xxxx
19 Q. Okay. And where were you born?
20 A. In Springfield, Vermont at the hospital.
21 Q. Okay. All right. What I'd like to do is
22 talk about the incident that occurred between Saturday
23 and Sunday, which would have been yesterday -- Sunday
24 was the 17th, Saturday would have been the 16th; is that
1 A. Yeah, but the prior incident had started it
2 on Wednesday night or it was Thursday. Thursday night
3 is when it started at our house.
4 Q. It started at your house? Okay.
5 A. On Thursday night was the first -- not the
6 incident to do with the shooting but started at our
7 house was the first time we ever met this kid.
8 Q. Okay. Who, the -- Vincent?
9 A. Vinny.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Vincent.
12 Q. All right. Let's start from Wednesday then.
13 A. It's Thursday. It was Thursday (inaudible).
14 Q. Thursday. But before we do that, give me a
15 little background. What is the history between this
16 Vinny and your friend Ben?
17 A. Ben Millay?
18 Q. Yeah.
19 A. I am lost on this. Vinny, I've -- like I
20 said, that was the first time I met him Thursday night.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. So as far as I know, Vinny is from Boston
23 and he's going out with a girl named Julie Kronberg --
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. -- and Ben Millay used to hang out with her.
1 Never used to date her officially, but he used to hang
2 out with her. From what I know, she obviously has been
3 filling his head full of stuff to get him mad at Ben.
4 That's all I know on the situation. The first night he
5 had met us was on Thursday, and Ben was at my house on
6 Saturday, on that incident on Saturday which led to
8 Q. Okay. Tell me about Thursday.
9 A. Thursday night, we're sitting in our house,
10 me and --
11 Q. Who?
12 A. It was me, Tristan Blanchard, Jeff Goal
13 (phonetically), a friend of mine from Springfield,
14 Vermont, and Michelle Lachapelle, my girlfriend, and
15 Jordan Ebel, a 16-year-old younger girl. We were
16 sitting there, and me and my friend Jeff were playing
17 Call of Duty on Playstation 3, and I had got a call on
18 my phone, a weird number.
19 I wasn't sure who it was, so I answered it
20 naturally, and it ended up being Kirby Donahue. She
21 asked if she could come over and hang out with a friend
22 Vincent. I said that shouldn't be a problem and they
23 came over. Ended up showing up at my house and --
24 Q. Who showed up?
25 A. Vincent and -- well, Tim Barillo
1 (phonetically) I think was his last name, and Kirby
2 Donahue, and they came walking upstairs, and when I saw
3 him, I can easily say I was pretty intimidated. He's a
4 big boy. He's definitely a big kid. He appeared to be
6 And he didn't seem like he was causing too
7 much of a problem until he sat down. He sat down, and I
8 could tell instantly that he was a really messed up kid.
9 He pulled out pills and tried selling me Xanax bars and
10 Oxycontin 80's and Klonopins, which I found out later on
11 he's prescribed to, I guess, the Klonopins and the Xanax
12 bars. I don't know about the Oxy 80's.
13 I said I -- I didn't want any of that, I
14 don't do any of that stuff, don't bring that near here.
15 I had two Percocets that were on the table, ten
16 milligrams that I'm prescribed to. I have all the
17 paperwork at my house. Can I buy those? Can I buy
18 those? I said no, I'm prescribed those, I don't sell
19 pills. Oh, come on, come on, I'm CT's brother on the
20 Real World, I'm CT's brother, I'm from Boston, and I
21 said I can't do that, I'm not here to do that, you're
22 here to hang out.
23 And we stayed there playing games, kind of
24 just kept our mouth shut. We were trying to stay on our
25 good graces because we were intimidated by this kid and
1 I just wanted to get him out of my house. He ended up
2 leaving, good terms, said he might bring his brother CT
3 over sometime. I said good enough, I'd like to meet
4 him, that's pretty cool, he's on the Real World, and he
5 ended up leaving that night.
6 Well, then it led on to Saturday. Saturday,
7 Kirby was calling my phone -- Kirby Donahue was calling
8 my phone repeatedly, called it twice, and called
9 Michelle Lachapelle's phone, my girlfriend, and she kept
10 calling, and Michelle goes don't answer it, don't answer
11 it, and the reason I answered it the other day was
12 because I didn't know her new number, so now I knew her
13 number and I said I'm not answering this.
14 I didn't answer it, and I wrote her a text
15 message simply stating that we have had friends coming
16 into -- over to our house for years, over two years, I
17 have a lot of friends, there's been obviously a lot of
18 drama between my girlfriend and you and a lot of
19 girlfriends that you guys have. I said if there's going
20 to be problems between you and my girlfriend and all
21 these girls, I said we don't want you at our house
22 anymore, please don't come to our house, please don't
23 bring strangers to our house, which clearly meant
24 Vincent, and please don't call mine or Michelle's phones
25 anymore, very sincere, nice message.
1 Next I get two calls from her, I didn't
2 answer her, and 20 minutes later, he was walking up my
3 stairs in my kitchen, and I can honestly say I've never
4 been more scared in my life. I knew something was
5 happening, I knew something was going on, and I did not
6 know what to do. For the first time in my life, I never
7 felt like I could protect myself, don't mind my
8 girlfriend, in my own home.
9 He's standing there and he's just looking at
10 me, and Kirby Donahue comes up behind him, and Michelle
11 comes walking out of my bedroom as Ben Millay, me and
12 Jordan Ebel were all sitting out on the couches in our
13 living room. Michelle comes walking out and sees
14 Vincent standing there, says what the fuck are you doing
15 in my house, what are you doing in my house, get out.
16 Kirby comes walking up behind him, Donahue,
17 and starts screaming Michelle, what's your problem with
18 me, why don't you like me, and Michelle said clearly you
19 cause a lot of drama, you've been running your mouth
20 about our friends Mallory and a bunch of girls and
21 stuff, causing problems basically ever since you and Gib
22 broke up, because she used to date Gib, a bigger kid
23 that's involved in the situation, and I said we only let
24 you over here basically because you were going out with
25 our friend, otherwise you never came here, Kirby, said
1 we don't want you here, please leave. Michelle said get
2 out of my house clearly.
3 She turned off bawling, crying and left.
4 Well, he stood there and he came walking in my living
5 room. Michelle said I said get the fuck out of my
6 house, leave. He weren't leaving. He kept walking up.
7 He walks right up to the couch that Ben Millay was
8 sitting on, says who are you, and Ben goes I'm Ben.
9 You're Ben? He goes yeah. You want to go outside?
10 This is what Vincent said to Ben.
11 And Ben goes no, I don't want to go outside,
12 and he goes why not, I want to talk to you, and Ben goes
13 we're talking right now, I don't have -- I don't have
14 anything I need to talk about, and he goes well, I want
15 to talk to you outside, what are you, not a man? And
16 Ben goes no, I just don't have anything I need to say.
17 He goes come on, let's go outside.
18 Later on that night, Ben had told me he went
19 outside -- he put a cigarette in his mouth and went
20 outside with him to get him out of my house because he
21 felt it was safer to have him outside, that we could get
22 him out of the house. So he put a cigarette in his
23 mouth and we all followed him downstairs, and Michelle
24 said clearly we're following you, Ben, don't feel
25 intimidated or anything, said we're right behind you,
1 this kid is not going to touch you.
2 We get outside, and we're all standing
3 outside at that point in time, and he's in Ben's face
4 over by the cars in my parking lot on 23 School Street,
5 and he's just in Ben's face saying that Ben had wrote in
6 a text message earlier that morning to Julie Kronberg
7 saying to come over and hang out with him or something
8 of the sort at his house after he got out of the shower,
9 and he went over to Julie's car and said look, Julie,
10 where's this text message on your phone, and she said
11 um, um. Didn't know what to say because it wasn't true
13 And Vincent still stayed mad at him. I
14 didn't hear their exact words, but I did hear -- hear a
15 little bit of it, basically Vincent saying -- I heard
16 him over saying if I wanted to fight you, Ben, you
17 wouldn't be scared right now, you wouldn't be scared of
18 me, and Ben's like I'm not scared of you because I'm not
19 going to fight you, I'm not going to fight you over a
20 girl, I don't have a problem with you, I never had a
21 problem with you, I don't even know who you are.
22 And at that point, I had went back upstairs
23 to go see if my girlfriend was okay, she was the only
24 one upstairs, and ask her what we should do, should we
25 call the cops, get this kid out of here? I said I'm
1 lost, Michelle.
2 At that point, I look down at my table and
3 there was a personal possession missing, which I don't
4 wish to disclose -- Matt Birmingham, my counsel, said
5 you guys could call him if you need to -- and there was
6 $40 taken off my table. I immediately said Michelle, he
7 just robbed us, just took that money off my table.
8 I ran downstairs and I was screaming at him,
9 and he took off, gets in the car, just takes off, and I
10 said this is ridiculous. I yelled at him. I went to
11 throw something, and I held it in my hand and didn't
12 throw it, took all I had not to. I had no shoes on at
13 that point in time.
14 Hopped in my mom's car with her keys and
15 went down Main Street after him. Got behind him in the
16 car, and I got down by -- down by the ball field about,
17 and I was behind him, and I realized I don't have a cell
18 phone on me, I don't have any shoes on, I don't have
19 anything, what am I going to do, what am I going to say
20 to this kid.
21 So I pulled into my closest buddy's house,
22 Mike Gleason's house, and I was in tears, I was all
23 upset, and I explained to him what was going on, and he
24 said all right, I'll get in the car, let's go, we need
25 to go where -- we need to go find your girlfriend, see
1 what's going on.
2 We go back to my house on 23 School Street
3 and no one's there. They all took off, Ben, Michelle
4 and Jordan Ebel. They all took off, and I guess they
5 were foll -- they were trying to find him, following him
6 into town. They went to town, and they had followed him
7 all the way to Springfield. By the time I had gotten
8 all the way to Springfield --
9 Or I guess there was a altercation on the
10 back road, which I wasn't there for. I guess they got
11 him to pull over on the back road, and Michelle said
12 give me my money back, and the kid said I don't have
13 your money, I'm from Boston. Michelle said go back to
14 Boston then, is what she told me, and the kid drove off
15 on her.
16 Then by the time I got to Springfield, me
17 and Mike Gleason in my car, we had pulled up on School
18 Street where we found out where they were. I mean, not
19 School Street, up on Summer Street in Springfield,
20 Vermont, and that's where Julie Kronberg lives. I see a
21 bunch of people down there, a whole group of people.
22 Her brother was down there, Jeremiah Wright, Gib was
23 down there and -- Gib Bastion (phonetically), and
24 Michelle was down there and Jordan Ebel, and I was
25 walking down and Gleason and there was a couple other
1 kids there.
2 And I get down there and the kid's holding a
3 knife. He's got a knife in his hand, opening and
4 closing it, opening and closing it. I said what the
5 hell's going on? Her brother -- her brother was up in
6 his face, he's smoking a stogy, and he's basically just
7 letting him know how he feels saying you come to my
8 sister's house and you think you're just going to walk
9 up in there when they told you not to go there, you
10 think you're going to pull this stuff in Springfield,
11 Vermont and was just telling him.
12 And he's like drop that knife, he had told
13 him, and the kid -- kid came at him, went to stab him
14 with the knife, and Miah backed up, he said you're a
15 fucking pussy, dude, don't do that stuff, and at that
16 point it just -- there was back talk between everyone
17 there. Everyone was screaming, everyone was yelling.
18 The two girls were up on the porch, Julie
19 Kronberg and Kirby Donahue, and my girlfriend and Jordan
20 started yelling at him and they were yelling at each
21 other, and my girlfriend and Jordan went to walk on the
22 property. The mom came running out of the house, got in
23 Michelle and Jordan's face and said look, you need to
24 get off our property now.
25 And Michelle and Jordan -- Michelle tried to
1 explain to the lady -- the lady was pushing her, and
2 Michelle tried to explain to her what just happened at
3 our house. The lady said get off my property, and
4 Michelle turned around and walked right off. She knew
5 what to do. She knows you can't be on someone's
6 property, but she was trying to be nice and explain to
7 the lady they were just over in Chester, we just
8 followed them over here, they just came up into our
9 house. They go you're not understanding, lady,
10 you're -- and this kid's got a knife out here on your
11 lawn, are you seeing this?
12 And so Michelle and them got off, and when
13 they started to walk away from the mom, Vincent came
14 over and he pushed Michelle and 16-year-old Jordan Ebel,
15 one arm, just pushes them right back. They almost fall
16 on their back, they go way back. And Gib runs over,
17 don't you fucking touch those girls, don't put your
18 hands on those girls, that's a pussy move, don't do
19 that, and her brother ran over, too, at the same time.
20 He turned around again and went to stab at
21 Miah, her brother, Jeremiah, and missed him again and
22 Miah backed up, and Gib was standing there. He looked
23 to the left to see if the girls were okay and asked the
24 girls are you okay. He looked back to the right, and
25 that kid hit him upside the mouth, open with a hand,
1 with a knife in the hand open, knife was wide open in
2 his hand, clocked him right upside the mouth.
3 Dropped a 380-pound man on the ground. He
4 hit the ground, he rolled around, got straight back up,
5 said you fucking pussy, you just cheap-shotted me, and
6 the kid -- I'm from Boston, I'm from Boston, that's what
7 I do, I just knocked your biggest guy out. Gib goes you
8 didn't knock me out, you just cheap-shotted me, I just
9 got back up, you didn't knock anybody out. You knocked
10 me down, he goes, but you didn't knock me out.
11 And right after that, here come -- here come
12 the cops. Well, within the time everyone sees the cops
13 coming from down the road, he ran in the house, ditches
14 that knife, gets rid of the knife, and we go down there
15 to meet the cops, and we're like he's got a knife, he's
16 got a knife. We're telling him what's going on.
17 The cops come over, and they went down and
18 talked to him, they come back over and talked to us. It
19 was Officer Hean, H-e-a-n, Officer Daniels and Officer
20 Fullerton all of Springfield PD, and we explained our
21 side of the story, that they were in Chester, he came up
22 in our house when we told him not to, which was pretty
23 much no trespassing even though we don't have a no
24 trespassing order on him because we never needed to, we
25 didn't even know the kid, and explained to them what he
1 took out of our house, explained to them what happened,
2 that we followed him to town and explained to them that
3 he had a knife right here, he jabbed at her brother
4 twice, explained to them that he just hit him with an
5 open knife in his hand, and he had a fat lip, he had to
6 go up to the hospital, and just explained to them
8 They said that we all needed to fill out
9 statements, and after we filled out the statements and
10 they figured out the story, they might charge everyone
11 with disorderly conduct for following him to town, which
12 I had just got there at the last second and I questioned
13 them on that. I said I just got here. I said you guys
14 pulled in right after I just got here, I said I
15 shouldn't be charged with any -- well -- and the guy
16 goes you didn't hear me, I never said you were getting
17 charged with disorderly conduct, I said we can charge
18 everyone for following him to Chester. I said I didn't
19 follow him, I weren't behind him, and I just kind of
20 argued with them on the fact.
21 And then they said and we can charge him
22 with simple assault, and I said why aren't you putting
23 him in handcuffs right now, did you find the knife, and
24 they said no, he probably had time to bring it back in
25 the house by now, we didn't find no knife. I go are you
1 kidding me? And they go no. I go and he's not going to
2 guest get arrested for punching that kid? I go that's
3 easily simple assault, if not aggravated.
4 He didn't break a bone, so I know it's not
5 aggravated, but I know simple assault. I said I've
6 punched two kids before in my lifetime, I've done it
7 before, and I was put right in handcuffs by the
8 Springfield PD. They came and found me at my
9 girlfriend's house, put me in handcuffs.
10 And I did not understand what was going on
11 that day. It seemed like they were scared of this kid.
12 I was lost. If this was taken care of on Saturday, who
13 knows what would happen on Sunday, but this led to
14 Sunday now because nothing was taken care of as far as
15 I'm concerned, and the Springfield PD did not do their
16 job at all.
17 Q. Okay. So then what?
18 A. Then it comes on to the next day. I'm
19 driving -- I headed into Springfield and I come back to
20 town. My girlfriend headed in town to get food and
21 bring Jordan to her house to get some clothes and stuff.
22 I headed in town to go to my sister's house, visit with
23 her while they were doing that and I head back. When I
24 head back, I'm driving by my house. Michelle had
25 already pulled in. She was inside. Drive by my house,
1 and they're driving out in front of my house, pointing
2 at me, laughing, stalking my house.
3 Q. What time was that?
4 A. It was in the afternoon. It must have been
5 two to three hours before the scene at the park.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. I mean, it was -- it was in the evening
8 but -- and they're driving by my house, and once again I
9 felt scared for my life, my girlfriend's. I didn't know
10 what to think. I said now this kid's stalking my house.
11 Prior to that incident, which I forgot to
12 mention, Ben had told us -- wrote us a text message and
13 we talked to him Sunday morning, and we had found out
14 the night before that from what we know, no one could
15 prove it, but someone went to Ben's house and slashed
16 his tires on his truck, two of his tires.
17 And he had talked to Vince in the morning,
18 and he told me that Vince said -- asked him if he was
19 having a nice day, and Ben said yeah, I'm going to a
20 baseball game, Red Sox game, why, just trying not to
21 mention the tires, and he goes I just want to let you
22 know that I'm going to break every bone in everyone's
23 body that was there that day and I'm going to rape all
24 their mothers.
25 And Ben told me that and I couldn't believe
1 that. I said this kid is psycho. I'm like I'm losing
2 it, Ben, I don't know what to think, I'm not even safe
3 in my home, I don't feel safe at all, I think he's going
4 to come back, I have a feeling he's going to come back,
5 I don't know why. I said he took offense to the fact
6 that I wrote that text message to Kirby saying that we
7 don't want strangers up here, which obviously meant him
8 because he's the only stranger that had been up there,
9 and he didn't like that.
10 So then when I had seen them drive by, Kyle
11 Bolaski was calling my phone at that time, and I
12 answered the phone to Kyle, and Kyle said -- Kyle asked
13 me what was going on and -- just seeing what's up. He
14 didn't even know what was going on. And I said Kyle,
15 these kids are driving by my house right now. I said
16 they're stalking my house. I go I can't even stay at my
17 house anymore, I got to move or something.
18 And he said Tristan, (inaudible), I'll come
19 to your house right now. We got over there, and it was
20 him and his brother and Jerry Ucci in the truck, and
21 they said get in the truck, calm down, we're going to
22 take you for a ride, calm down, we're just going to get
23 you out of here so they're not chasing you anymore. I
24 said all right.
25 Went around, rode with them. We drove into
1 Springfield, drove around, drove back into Chester,
2 drove some back roads out by Trebo Road and stuff, and
3 we ended up -- what happened next. Jerry used my phone
4 to call Vincent on Kirby Donahue's phone, said give me
5 your phone, where can I get -- where can I get a hold of
6 him? I said I don't know. He said would he be with
7 Kirby? And I said you can call her, you can use my
8 phone to call Kirby.
9 At that point, he got on the phone with
10 Kirby and said Kirby, where's this Vincent kid, because
11 he knows Kirby, he went to school with her, they both
12 went over here to Green Mountain, and Kirby says I don't
13 know, don't get in the middle of this, Jerry, and he
14 says no, Kirby, where is he, I want to know where he is.
15 Kirby goes he's not with me, he's not with me. Then
16 give me an address, give me a phone number. I want to
17 talk to this kid, I want to know what his problem is, he
18 can't just be walking up in people's houses and pulling
19 out knives on people like this, what's going on, Kirby,
20 who is this kid, why is he here.
21 And Kirby actually ended up putting Vince on
22 the phone, he was with her, and he goes -- this is all
23 from Jerry's side. I can't hear on the phone, but I --
24 is this Vincent he said, and the kid said yeah, and he
25 goes who the hell do you think you are, what are you
1 doing coming into our -- into Vermont thinking you're
2 tough, you're from Boston? He said you can't go into --
3 up into people's houses and pull out knives on people,
4 chase people into town and punch people like that, who
5 the hell do you think you are, and he just kept talking
6 to him.
7 And then he said -- he said to him look, and
8 he said I'm not going to deal with this, and at that
9 point Vincent said I'm crazy. He goes I just want to
10 let you know I'm crazy, and Jerry goes I'm crazy too,
11 I'm crazy, and he starts screaming, I'm crazy, you want
12 to meet me, you want to meet me at the baseball field in
13 Chester? You can meet there. He said you want to come
14 there? You want to plan this up? He's like you can
15 come meet me at the Chester baseball field.
16 And after that, he had to use my phone to
17 call another friend, Tim Arbuckle, one of his friends,
18 and he said look, Tim, I heard you had problems with
19 this kid the night before, he said let's end this with
20 this kid, he said, and deal with the situation the best
21 we can and see if this kid's going to come after us with
22 a knife is what I figured was going to happen or a fight
23 or I didn't know what was going to happen at that point
24 in time. I had no idea.
25 He talked to Timmy, and Tim was down at the
1 softball field already. They had just got done playing
2 a softball game, men's league, and there were kids down
3 there, there were parents down there, they had barbecues
4 set up, a tent, and all the trucks were parked down on
5 the field, and the parking lot's a ways up there.
6 We got down there -- or right before we got
7 down there, we got a call saying that one of our
8 friends, Mike Gleason, had an altercation outside of his
9 house. Gib and -- Gib Bastion and Jordan Ebel were
10 driving down to the softball field because they heard
11 everyone was going down there and they were going to try
12 and stop whatever was going to happen.
13 On their way down there, right in front of
14 the softball field where Mike Gleason's house is, right
15 down here on the right, they pulled over because -- or
16 Vincent, actually, they saw Vincent and Kirby and Julie
17 Kronberg, and they pulled over and so did Gib, and
18 Vincent got out on Gleason's lawn, and Gleason was
19 outside, Mike Gleason, one of my friends and his
20 girlfriend, Adrianne Stearns, walks up to him, from what
21 I know, and said who the fuck do you -- you want to
22 fight? You got a problem?
23 And from what I know, Mike Gleason said no,
24 I don't have a problem, I don't even know who you are,
25 and he said -- he said well, call those mother fuckers
1 that have a problem with me, I want to know where the
2 fuck they are, I want to meet them right now. Mike goes
3 I'll make the call for you, but I'm not in the middle of
4 this, man, I don't even know what's going on.
5 So I guess Vincent had left there and headed
6 down to the baseball field at that point or I don't know
7 where he was. We ended up -- we were in Chester down at
8 Jiffy Mart and they drove down to the baseball field.
9 We get down there to the baseball field and we're
10 pulling in, and Kyle and Jerry get out of the truck, out
11 of Kyle's truck. We were in Corey's truck before. We
12 had stopped at Corey's house and then switched and got
13 in Kyle's truck and then went down there in Kyle's
15 And Kyle gets out, Jerry gets out, and I
16 looked at Corey in the front seat and I said Corey, I'm
17 scared. I said Corey, I don't know what's going to
18 happen right now, I don't know what's going on, this kid
19 is psycho. I said he's going to hurt people,
20 something's going to happen, I can feel it, Corey, I
21 don't want to be here. Corey said don't worry, Tristan,
22 nothing's going to happen.
23 The whole time there was -- there was one
24 loaded gun in the truck the whole time we were driving
25 around from what I know. I don't know if it was loaded
1 or not, but I know there was a gun in the truck with
2 bullets. I don't even know what kind of guns they were.
3 From what I was told, they're 30-06, but I don't know
4 anything about guns, so I couldn't tell you what they
5 were, but when we had stopped at the house to get the
6 other truck, Corey had went in and got his gun as well,
7 and they came outside and then we went down there.
8 The guns were left in the truck when they
9 got out of the truck, and we went over and talked to all
10 the people down there that just got done the baseball
11 game, Tim Arbuckle, Matt Parker, some other people that
12 were down there, Brian Perkins I think was (inaudible).
13 We're standing over there, then you see the
14 Pontiac drive in up the parking lot ways up there, and
15 it's Vince and Julie Kronberg and Kirby Donahue, and
16 he's pulling out a Taser up there, lighting a Taser off
17 or a stun gun more or less because a Taser would shoot
18 out at you, so he's lighting off a stun gun, you can
19 here it, bzzz, bzzz, bzzz, and Tim Arbuckle looks over,
20 he goes what the hell is this fucking kid's problem, who
21 the hell does this kid think he is? He goes what's his
22 problem with me anyways?
23 And from what I know, Jerry had called Tim
24 as protection basically or to help the situation to try
25 and calm this kid down or whatever they were going to
1 do, so I don't understand why Tim was saying what's this
2 kid's problem with me because really from what I know,
3 Vince didn't really have a problem with Tim, but Tim
4 weren't having it. He said -- he said you bring that
5 fucking Taser down here right now, I'll put that Taser
6 up your fucking ass, big boy, get down here.
7 He weren't coming anywhere. He was staying
8 up there by the car, right -- he got out of the back
9 seat and he was standing right there. Tim starts
10 walking towards him. He walks up, and he almost gets up
11 there, and I was behind -- a ways behind Tim and Kyle
12 and Corey and Gib and Jerry Ucci, and this kid grabs an
13 ax, full size ax, grabs it off the floor and just starts
15 Never seen a kid that big in my life, that
16 scary in my life come running with an ax that fast. He
17 was catching up. I ran to the left side with Gib. As
18 far as I know, Corey and Kyle ran to the right, Tim was
19 running straight, everyone's spread out, and from what I
20 know, he was catching up to Kyle and Corey.
21 I went running. I darted as fast as I could
22 down by that baseball field. There's a river down there
23 that flows down behind the field and some bushes right
24 there. I got behind those bushes and I looked back, and
25 as I was looking back, from what I was told, he was --
1 he got -- he caught up to Kyle, and he went to swing at
2 Kyle, his back of his legs, and he missed his legs, and
3 Kyle caught up speed.
4 And what I saw was Kyle get to his truck,
5 and he's yelling to Corey, unlock the truck, unlock the
6 truck, and he had got his gun out of the truck, I think,
7 at that point in time. I didn't see him grab his gun.
8 I didn't see Kyle grab his gun. What I saw was Vince
9 take that ax, almost hit Kyle and hit that truck one
10 time, two times, three times. He put the mallet of that
11 ax through that truck and pulling it back out. I mean,
12 this thing was like a pencil in this guy's hand. This
13 guy is huge. I never seen something with -- someone
14 with so much power. He's just putting that mallet
15 through that hard as he could, putting holes in the
16 truck that I can't even believe an ax would do.
17 And next thing I know -- I went running when
18 I saw him do that. I wasn't having it. I said I'm
19 getting out of here, I don't want him to see me over
20 here hiding alone, he's going to come after me because
21 shit's been going on at my house or he's going to go
22 after Gib because when he first got out of the vehicle,
23 I left out that he was yelling I want him, I want Gib,
24 and Gib looked at me and goes what's he want me for,
25 dude, I don't even know what I did.
1 But he's -- all that is going on in my head
2 is Kirby and this Julie are filling this kid's head full
3 of all this stuff. This kid's never met anyone in
4 Springfield, Vermont. He doesn't know any of us. We're
5 all good people, and he's getting all the judgments
6 through Kirby and Julie, the only two people he knows.
7 As far as I know, this kid's prescribed these Klonopins
8 and Xanax bars, which is for someone that is really
9 messed up, and that's what he seemed to me, really
10 messed up, intimidating, scary and big.
11 And I -- I was scared. I ran. I ran when I
12 saw him hitting that truck, and I looked back, and I
13 never saw Kyle shot him, but I heard the first gunshot
14 go off and I ran back. When I ran back, I saw Vincent
15 laying on the ground, and I turned around, I ran as fast
16 as I could away from that ball field. I ran. I kept
17 running, and I heard the other gunshots go off and I
18 just kept running.
19 I ran out towards the road, and it let out
20 into the main road, which is where Mike Gleason and
21 Adrianne's house was. Adrianne saw me and she grabbed
22 onto me, and Gleason came over and they brang me over in
23 their driveway. I was -- I was so upset, I was puking
24 all over the place. I didn't know what to do, I didn't
25 know what happened, and then Mike's saying that he heard
1 someone got shot over there. Vincent ended up getting
2 shot is all I heard. I heard both of them shot him, I
3 heard Kyle shot him in the leg and blew his leg off, I
4 heard Corey shot him in the chest.
5 I didn't know what happened. I didn't see
6 anything that Corey had done. I didn't see where Corey
7 had shot. From what I'm being told now, Corey shot off
8 a couple rounds at the ground to try and scare Vincent,
9 because the story I've been told is Vincent caught up to
10 Kyle, and when he caught up to him, hit the truck three
12 Kyle came around with the gun, and Vincent
13 lunged at him with that ax and Kyle shot his leg, and
14 then Vincent made it still after Kyle, ran halfway
15 around the truck, and then Kyle shot him again, and
16 while he was running after Kyle, Corey had shot off two
17 shots, and Corey's hit the ground, and Corey told me
18 himself on the phone, he said Tristan, I was trying to
19 scare him, I didn't know what to do, he was chasing my
20 brother and my brother already shot him. He said I had
21 no idea, I'm so lost to this. I said Corey, I don't
22 know what to say about your situation because I didn't
23 see you.
24 I only saw what I saw. I saw him hit Kyle's
25 truck with that ax and I turned around after he was
1 shot. I never saw anyone get shot, so I can't -- and I
2 saw the part with Kyle. I didn't see Kyle shoot him,
3 but I saw more of that part. I didn't see anything with
4 you because I ran once that happened. I ran as fast as
5 I could, Corey.
6 And Corey said if you could do anything you
7 can, just talk to my attorneys. I go -- you know my
8 brother, he's not a murderer, and I said I know, Corey,
9 I'm going to do everything I can, I'm scared for my
10 life, I don't know what to think. If something like
11 that didn't happen or something -- I knew that kid was
12 going to hurt somebody in this town. He was after
14 Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you a couple
15 questions. Okay? One, obviously you've talked to Corey
16 since this incident?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Okay. Have you talked to Kyle since this
20 A. No. He's in custody.
21 Q. Okay. After you spoke to Corey, did you
22 speak to his attorney?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Have you spoken to any attorney?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Whose attorney did you speak with?
2 A. Matt Birmingham out of Ludlow.
3 Q. Who's -- who's he representing?
4 A. It's just my attorney. He's not anyone's
5 attorney. I just called him for legal advice and he
6 tol --
7 Q. You have a re -- okay. And what did he tell
9 A. I didn't explain the whole situation to him.
10 I just said I'm going up here to be investigated and
11 talk to one of the detectives, should I bring a lawyer
12 with me, and he said I don't think you're going to need
13 a lawyer, I think they're just going to question you and
14 they're going to tape your recording and get what you
15 know, Tristan. He said if you need anything, let me
16 know, and when you get out of there, just call me and
17 give me a heads up and let me know what happened.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. He goes it should be completely fine. I
20 said okay.
21 Q. Okay. Did -- let me ask you this. You said
22 that you were riding with Kyle, Corey and who?
23 A. Kyle, Corey and Jerry Ucci.
24 Q. Okay. Just a minute.
25 A. I've only met him twice in my life.
1 Q. Kyle, Corey.
2 A. Bolaskis.
3 Q. Yep. And --
4 A. And Jerry Ucci.
5 Q. Jerry -- spell the last --
6 A. I don't know him, but I say it's Y-u-s-i.
7 Q. Ucci?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Okay. Now, you're riding around. This
10 Jerry takes your phone, calls Kirby, then gets Vincent
11 on the phone?
12 A. Um hum.
13 Q. Okay. Make arrangements to meet at this
14 ball field; is that right?
15 A. Yep.
16 Q. Okay. And then you said there was a rifle
17 in the truck at that time; is that right?
18 A. Um hum.
19 Q. How did you know the rifle was in the truck?
20 A. It was -- I mean, it's a For -- or we were
21 in Corey's Chevy at that time. It's a Chevy. I mean,
22 it's three seats in the back, two in the front. There
23 ain't anywhere to put a rifle without it being seen. It
24 was right --
25 Q. Okay. Did anybody make comment about the
2 A. No.
3 Q. And then you said you went to whose house to
4 get another gun?
5 A. We stopped at Corey and Kyle's house when we
6 got into Chester because their house is in Chester --
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. -- to switch out into Kyle's truck because I
9 guess Corey had no gas and they just wanted to get in
10 Kyle's truck.
11 Q. Okay. And did you -- did they transfer the
12 rifle from the truck you were in to the other truck?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Okay. Who did that?
15 A. I think it was Kyle because that first one
16 was his gun --
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. -- and then, like I said, Corey came out
19 with the other one.
20 Q. Okay. So Corey went into the house and
21 brought out a gun?
22 A. Um hum.
23 Q. Okay. And why did they do that?
24 A. For protection as far as I'm concerned.
25 Q. Did they say something?
1 A. Did they say --
2 Q. Did they make comment about I'm going to get
3 my gun or anything like that?
4 A. No. No.
5 Q. They just came out and had the guns?
6 A. Um hum.
7 Q. Okay. What type of comments did they make
8 about the guns?
9 A. They didn't make any comments (inaudible).
10 Q. You didn't make any comment, nothing? I
11 mean --
12 A. No. When we got there -- when we got there
13 and I said to Corey I'm scared, Corey, I don't know what
14 to do, Corey, he --
15 Q. Well, I -- I want to -- I want to back up.
16 We're at the house. You guys are riding around. This
17 Jerry Ucci takes your phone, he calls this Vince kid,
18 talks to Vince. They have a heated argument on the
19 phone; is that right?
20 A. Um hum.
21 Q. Okay. Arrangements were made for Jerry --
22 A. Between both of them.
23 Q. -- to meet Vincent at the ball field?
24 A. Vincent to meet Jerry.
25 Q. Huh?
1 A. For Vincent to meet Jerry.
2 Q. Right.
3 A. The same thing.
4 Q. Right.
5 A. I mean, either way, both of them were
7 Q. They were going to meet there. They -- they
8 had a -- a conversation on the phone you said --
9 A. It was a mutual agreement.
10 Q. -- you described it -- I would describe it
11 as a heated conversation --
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. -- from what you told me; is that true?
14 A. Oh, yeah.
15 Q. Okay. Then you go back to Corey's house,
17 A. Um hum.
18 Q. Corey goes inside, gets a gun you say?
19 A. Um hum.
20 Q. What did the gun look like?
21 A. It's just a rifle from what I know. I don't
22 know much about guns --
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. -- but they both were rifles, and I was told
25 they were 30-06 with different calibers.
1 Q. All right. And Kyle has a gun in his
2 truck --
3 A. Um hum.
4 Q. -- is that right?
5 A. Um hum.
6 Q. I --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Sorry.
10 Q. And did Kyle take the rifle out of the
12 A. Out of Corey's? He took it out of Corey's
13 and then put it in his truck --
14 Q. And put it in Kyle's --
15 A. -- and then we -- and then we headed down to
16 the field.
17 Q. Okay. So you were in Corey's truck, you
18 drove to Corey's house, got into Kyle's truck?
19 A. Um hum.
20 Q. When you got into Kyle's truck, Kyle took
21 the rifle from Corey's truck and put it into Kyle's
22 truck with him?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Corey went into the house?
25 A. Um hum.
1 Q. Came back out with another rifle --
2 A. Um hum.
3 Q. -- is that right?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. Okay. So then you get into the truck.
6 That -- that didn't generate any conversation with you
7 or anybody else that these guys put guns in a truck
8 that -- with you guys and you guys were going to this
9 ball field to meet this crazy person?
10 A. No, it didn't because Corey and Kyle live
11 for hunting. They're hunters. They're -- these are all
12 legal guns, they're registered under them --
13 Q. Right. They're -- they're legal guns.
14 A. -- and they can have them in their car. Not
16 Q. They're legal guns. They're legal guns.
17 A. Exactly.
18 Q. But I'm saying they're going --
19 A. So for it to be in their car isn't something
20 that is not normal to me.
21 Q. But you're not going hunting. They're not
22 going hunting. They're going to a ball field.
23 A. Not at all. Oh, yeah.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. But you can --
1 Q. Corey goes in his house and brings out an
2 extra gun. Already had one gun. He went in the house,
3 brought out another gun, and that's what I'm trying to
4 understand is there must have been some sort of talk
5 between them or you or whoever that talked about the
7 A. No, because Kyle and Corey were the only two
8 that got out. Kyle -- Kyle got out, me got out, Jerry
9 got out. I got on the phone. I think I was talking to
10 my girlfriend or Gib at the time, and Jerry and Kyle had
11 got -- Kyle's gotten out. Jerry and Kyle got in the
12 Ford, and then I was standing there talking on the phone
13 and then here comes Kyle --
14 Q. Okay. All right.
15 A. -- I mean here comes Corey.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And there was no talk to me -- no one said
18 anything to me about the rifles.
19 Q. And nobody said anything about the guns?
20 Nobody said anything about the guns --
21 A. No.
22 Q. -- the whole way there --
23 A. No.
24 Q. -- anything? Okay. So then you drove and
25 you went to -- then Jerry calls this Tim Arbuckle; is
1 that right?
2 A. He had already -- already talked to him
3 prior to that.
4 Q. Okay. Already talked to him prior to
5 that --
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. -- said we're coming (inaudible)?
8 A. Like -- like a little while after they
9 talked with him so --
10 Q. We're coming down there?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. Is this Tim Arbuckle, is he a good size kid?
13 What's --
14 A. Yeah, he's pretty good size. I mean, I
15 guess, yeah.
16 Q. Yeah.
17 A. I don't really know him very well. I never
18 had a conversation with him.
19 Q. Looked like he could take care of himself?
20 A. Not against this Vincent kid, no.
21 Q. Okay. But they --
22 A. No. No.
23 Q. So now it's you, Kyle, Corey, Jerry --
24 Jerry's a pretty good size kid -- going down to the ball
25 field. Tim's there. You guys all know that this
1 Vincent's coming here. This --
2 A. He's supposed to be.
3 Q. Right.
4 A. We -- we didn't get there until --
5 Q. Arrangements were made for him to go there?
6 A. Yeah, arrangements were made.
7 Q. And arrangements were made between Jerry,
8 Tim, Kyle, Corey that they were going to meet him there.
9 You were in the truck with them.
10 A. But the only arrangements were made between
11 Jerry and him --
12 Q. Right.
13 A. -- to meet there.
14 Q. Okay. So you get there --
15 A. Irregardless -- irregardless who else was
16 there, their arrangements were to meet and them two to
17 talk --
18 Q. Right. Okay.
19 A. -- by the sounds of it. Was only these two.
20 Q. So -- so they go there, right, and you're
21 there at the ball field; is that right?
22 A. Um hum.
23 Q. Okay. You're all at the ball field?
24 A. We're down there.
25 Q. You see the Pontiac pull in?
1 A. Um hum.
2 Q. You see Vincent get out of the Pontiac; is
3 that right?
4 A. Yeah, the back door.
5 Q. And he --
6 A. I think it was pass -- I think it was
7 driver's side back door.
8 Q. Okay. And he has a Taser?
9 A. Um hum.
10 Q. How far away from you guys was he at that
12 A. (Inaudible).
13 Q. Looked like quite a ways to me when I saw
14 the car.
15 A. Yeah. I mean, it was all the way from the
16 ball field up to the parking lot (inaudible).
17 Q. Hundred yards?
18 A. I don't know even what to say. Yeah.
19 Q. (Inaudible) --
20 A. I mean, 75 to 100 -- yeah, it was a ways
22 Q. Right.
23 A. I mean, he was a ways back. You could just
24 barely --
25 Q. Would you say three telephone poles --
1 A. Yeah, easily.
2 Q. -- distance?
3 A. Yeah, about. Easily.
4 Q. Okay. So he's up there --
5 A. Yeah, and you could hear -- you could barely
6 see the Taser. You could see the electricity going
7 between the Taser and you could hear it all every --
9 Q. Okay. Was he saying anything?
10 A. No. He was just standing up there with that
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. I think I heard him say something to Tim
14 when Tim was yelling, but I couldn't hear him though.
15 Q. Okay. So Tim -- Tim was down there with
16 you, so you guys are --
17 A. Kind of. Tim was down there because he just
18 finished a softball game, men's league.
19 Q. Right.
20 A. I mean, there was a bunch of men down there,
21 league. They're --
22 Q. Right. But you guys are together at that
23 point, right?
24 A. No. We're all spread out. I went over and
25 talked to two friends that I knew there and stayed out
1 of it pretty much while they were dealing with it.
2 Q. Okay. Okay. So you hear --
3 A. Everyone's spread out. There was a lot of
4 people down there. They were having a cookout.
5 Q. Did you hear -- you heard the yelling
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. And at one point, Jerry and Tim, Kyle,
9 Corey, you trailed behind a little bit --
10 A. Everyone was walking. I stayed --
11 Q. -- started -- but they started walking
12 toward Vincent; is that true?
13 A. Oh, yeah, Tim and Jerry and Kyle --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- were right up there.
16 Q. So they were headed up there?
17 A. Tim, Jerry and Kyle were headed up there,
18 and Gib was a little off to the right.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. He stayed back. I stayed back.
21 Q. And what did it sound like to you was taking
22 place while they're walking up there?
23 A. From what I hear -- like I said, Tim said --
24 back there, he said bring that Taser down there, I'll
25 shove that thing up your ass and --
1 Q. Okay. But he didn't come down.
2 A. No.
3 Q. He stayed up there.
4 A. No, he didn't dare come down, I don't think,
5 because --
6 Q. So if he stayed up there and you said he
7 didn't dare to come down, you didn't think he dared to
8 come down because --
9 A. I think he did, but he wanted us to come up
10 there --
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. -- was what he wanted.
13 Q. So he wasn't coming down to you guys?
14 A. He -- he weren't going to walk down there
15 with 100 people down there, but he ended up -- he did.
16 Q. Right, but let me ask you this. He's up in
17 the parking lot near the car with the Taser. Tim's
18 yelling at him. Is Jerry yelling at him?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Just Tim. Okay. And he's telling him to
21 come down there, and Vincent's not coming down there,
22 he's staying up there; is that right?
23 A. Right. Yeah, and I think Vincent's trying
24 to get him up there.
25 Q. Okay. So -- so he's up there. You guys are
1 about 75 to 100 yards away. You're --
2 A. They were close. Those three were close.
3 They walked up. We stayed back with --
4 Q. They're moving closer to him, right?
5 A. -- we stayed back with the girls and kids.
6 There were four kids over there, and I'm talking to the
7 mom right there --
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. -- of the kids, and she's like we can't have
10 this here.
11 Q. Right. So they're moving toward Vincent at
12 this time?
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. As they get closer to Vincent, you said
15 Vincent -- how close to the car was Corey, Jerry, Kyle
16 and Tim?
17 A. Corey was back --
18 Q. At the time --
19 A. -- Corey was back a ways. It was Jerry,
20 Kyle and Tim that were closer.
21 Q. Okay. Jerry, Kyle, Tim were closer. How
22 close to the car were they when -- when you say Vincent
23 reached into the back of the car and took out an ax?
24 A. 50, 60 feet. I mean --
25 Q. 50, 60 feet?
1 A. -- they were -- they were a little ways
2 away. Enough, I mean, to run but --
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. -- they were close.
5 Q. So 50, 60 feet but close?
6 A. They were getting up there.
7 Q. They were getting up there. He gets an ax.
8 Then what? They --
9 A. Well, what -- what I remember -- what I
10 think I remember Tim saying was what's your problem with
11 me, man, why do you -- and that's what I told you, I
12 didn't -- Tim didn't understand what he -- what his
13 problem was with him, and Tim wanted to go up there,
14 what it sounded like to me, and just figure it out,
15 what's your problem with me. He wanted -- he started to
16 talk to him, and then when he got up there, Vincent
17 weren't having no talk. There wasn't -- it wasn't about
19 Q. Well -- well, prior to that, though, he's up
20 there with a Taser, Tim's down there yelling up to him,
21 you know --
22 A. I think Vincent's trying to attract him up
24 Q. -- to come down here, I'm going to shove
25 that up your ass?
1 A. Pretty much --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- same way, and Vincent wants us up here
4 and they want him down here and talk.
5 Q. Okay. So they get up there, they get close,
6 Vincent reaches in, grabs an ax, and you say Vincent
7 chases after them; is that right?
8 A. Oh, yeah.
9 Q. You say that he chases down Kyle at some
10 point, and he's hitting Kyle's truck with the ax?
11 A. He was running behind Kyle, and he swung
12 behind Kyle. He caught up to Kyle a little bit.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Kyle got up to the truck.
15 Q. Did Kyle ever get hit with the ax?
16 A. Not yet.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. No, he never -- I don't think he did at all.
19 Q. So the -- the ax is hitting the truck; is
20 that right?
21 A. Um hum.
22 Q. Kyle's in the truck?
23 A. No. I don't know if Kyle was in the truck.
24 Q. Or Kyle reaches in the truck, gets a gun you
1 A. I think so. I didn't see him grab the gun.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I didn't see him grab the gun. All I saw
4 was -- through the bushes is Vincent hitting that truck
5 with that ax.
6 Q. Okay. So then you say you hear a shot?
7 A. I see Vincent hitting that truck three times
8 with that ax I'm pretty sure --
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. -- and then I started running. When I
11 started running, I got about halfway up out of the field
12 towards the road and I hear the gunshot and look back
14 Q. Okay. So you hear the gunshot, you go back,
15 and you say you saw Vincent on the ground?
16 A. I see Vincent on the ground.
17 Q. How was he lying on the ground after that
19 A. He was just lying on his back.
20 Q. On his back?
21 A. But I was a ways away.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. I couldn't see if his eyes are open, I
24 couldn't see how --
25 Q. Right. And then you run off?
1 A. Um hum.
2 Q. And as you're running off, you hear two more
4 A. I hear more gunshots. I don't know how many
5 there was.
6 Q. More gunshots. You don't know how many.
7 A. From what I think, there was four or five
8 that went off total.
9 Q. Okay. So you hear more gunshots, and you
10 run -- but you never turned to look back or anything?
11 A. No, I was out of there.
12 Q. You got out of there?
13 A. Gone.
14 Q. That's the last you knew of the incident?
15 A. Called my sister, called my -- and she came
16 and picked me right up.
17 Q. So let me -- just to recap because I want to
18 understand this.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay? You had problems with Vincent. Okay?
21 Ben's had problems with Vincent, right? You --
22 A. Or he's had problems with us --
23 Q. Right.
24 A. -- is what it sounded like coming up into my
25 house and trespassing.
1 Q. Right. It's a -- yeah.
2 A. It isn't mutual.
3 Q. Right.
4 A. I don't know this kid. I don't have a
5 problem with him. I never did.
6 Q. Right. You guys have had problems with him
7 is what I'm saying. He's -- he's not welcome at your
8 house. He went there, there was problems, however that
9 happened, but on Sunday, you drive to your house, and
10 he's out front driving past your house. You call Kyle
11 or Corey?
12 A. No, Kyle was calling me.
13 Q. Kyle was calling you?
14 A. At the same time it was going on.
15 Q. And you told him, you know -- you know, you
16 had a conversation with him about this Vincent's at your
17 house, you're afraid of him, you know, he's stalking
18 you, you said, something along those lines. Kyle tells
19 you we're coming to get you, right?
20 A. He said -- he said we're coming over, wait
21 at your house --
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. -- is what I said.
24 Q. So he shows up there. He's got Corey with
25 him, he's got Jerry Ucci with him?
1 A. They were in Corey's truck. Corey was
2 driving at that point.
3 Q. They were in Corey's truck. You get in
4 with -- with them?
5 A. Yeah, they said get in, calm down, Tristan,
6 let's go for a ride, just calm down.
7 Q. Okay. So as you're riding around, this
8 Jerry at some point takes your cell phone, calls Kirby.
9 Kirby tells him, you know, I don't know where Vincent
10 is, but then finally Vincent gets on the phone. Jerry
11 has a heated conversation with Vincent. You can't hear
12 the other end, but from what you hear from Jerry's end,
13 you're saying it sounded -- I need it in your words. It
14 sounded --
15 A. It sounded heated.
16 Q. Are you sure? I'm -- I don't want to put
17 words in your mouth. I want this to be -- this is --
18 A. I mean, they -- they were yelling. It
19 definitely sounded --
20 Q. I'm trying to get a -- I'm trying to get a
21 summary of the events so --
22 A. If anything -- if anything, it sounded Jerry
23 was upset. Like I said, Jerry was saying strictly how
24 he felt about the situation, you come over here and you
25 break into people's houses when they tell you not to
1 come over, you pull out knives on people, you hit
2 somebody with an open knife in your hand. He was
3 explaining the situation loud and clear.
4 Q. Okay. And then at some point during that,
5 you heard Jerry say, you know, to meet us at this ball
7 A. Um hum.
8 Q. Is that true?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. So then because gas was low in
11 Corey's truck, you guys drove to Corey's house, got out.
12 Kyle took a gun that was in Corey's truck and placed it
13 in Kyle's truck. Corey goes into the house, comes out
14 with another gun, puts it in Kyle's truck. You guys all
15 get back in Kyle's truck. Sometime prior to that, Jerry
16 has a conversation with Tim Arbuckle on the phone.
17 Tim's at that ball field; is that right?
18 A. Yep. He just got done playing a softball
20 Q. Okay. And --
21 A. By the looks of it.
22 Q. Okay. So then you guys drive to the ball
23 field. You get to the ball field, you --
24 A. Before the ball field was the altercation at
25 Gleason's house.
1 Q. At whose?
2 A. Mike Gleason's house.
3 Q. Were you at that house?
4 A. I wasn't at that --
5 Q. Right. That -- that -- that took place.
6 You weren't there though.
7 A. Yeah, I wasn't there.
8 Q. Okay. So you guys went to the ball field?
9 A. Um hum.
10 Q. When you get to the ball field, you meet up
11 with Tim?
12 A. I didn't meet up with him. I don't even
13 know Tim. I never had a conversation (inaudible).
14 Q. They -- did they meet up with him --
15 A. Jerry know -- Jerry's the only one that knew
16 Tim, I think.
17 Q. Okay. So Jerry talked to Tim?
18 A. Um hum.
19 Q. Okay. So Jerry meets up with Tim at the
20 ball field. They already had a conversation about this
21 Vincent. Right? Is that true?
22 A. Um hum. Um hum. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. And they had that conversation by
24 cell phone while they were in your truck --
25 A. Yeah. Yes.
1 Q. -- while Jerry was in your truck?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. So you guys get there, and at some
4 point during this, the Pontiac pulls in in the upper
5 parking lot approximately 75 to 100 yards from you?
6 A. Yeah, it was quite a ways, yeah.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I'm pretty sure that sounds right.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. It's hard to --
11 Q. And you say Vincent gets out. He's got a
13 A. Yeah.
14 Q. Is that right?
15 A. Stun gun I would say because the Tasers
16 shoot out.
17 Q. Okay. And you say that Tim is hollering up
18 to him. What is it he's telling him?
19 A. Tim at first said come down here with that
20 Taser, big boy, is what I heard him say, and -- and then
21 Vincent lit it off a couple more times. He said come
22 down here with that, and then he said -- after he said
23 that, he's like come down here, I'll shove that thing up
24 your ass.
25 Q. Okay. During this, you're saying Tim,
1 Jerry, Kyle, Corey's back a little bit, you're back a
2 little bit?
3 A. And Gib's back and Jor --
4 Q. Gib's back?
5 A. -- Jordan Ebel.
6 Q. But Cor -- Kyle, Jerry, Tim start walking
7 toward Vincent; is that right?
8 A. All of us were. I was behind but I wasn't
9 (inaudible) --
10 Q. Right.
11 A. -- stayed with the people with -- Gib stayed
12 back because he's a bigger kid, he knows he ain't going
13 to be able to run too fast --
14 Q. Right.
15 A. -- and Corey stayed back because I think
16 he's younger, he don't want to deal with it much either,
17 he just wants, you know --
18 Q. Um hum. So they're walking up?
19 A. They're closer, headed up.
20 Q. Vincent's staying at the car?
21 A. Um hum. Yes.
22 Q. As they get close or closer, you say Vincent
23 comes out of the vehicle -- reaches in the vehicle,
24 comes out with an ax?
25 A. He was already -- yeah, he was standing at
1 the back door and he was standing there already.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And he rea --
4 Q. So he comes out with an ax?
5 A. He reached down on the floor -- it looked
6 like it wasn't on the seat. He reached down on the
7 floor, and all of a sudden I see this huge pole come
8 out, and I thought it was a metal pole of some sort, and
9 then I heard people saying he's got an ax, he's got an
10 ax as we turned around and started running because the
11 first person I see start running is Tim Arbuckle. I
12 said if he's running, I'm out of here. I already had a
13 head start. I'm running down by that river. I'm going
14 to hide.
15 Q. Okay. So then as you're running, you say
16 you see Vincent swinging the ax, hitting the truck
17 several times?
18 A. Yeah. I see him chasing Kyle because he was
19 catching up to Kyle is what I see.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. And then as he was catching up to Kyle, I
22 didn't see him swing towards his legs, but I guess he
23 caught up to Kyle, and what I did see was when Kyle was
24 going to grab -- if he was grabbing the gun -- I didn't
25 see him with it, so it's hard to say if he was grabbing
1 the gun at that point or when he got the gun. I didn't
2 see when he got the gun --
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. -- but I did see him swing and Kyle duck and
5 run around the truck, and when he swung, he just barely
6 missed Kyle, hits that truck once, twice, three times,
7 and he's putting the full head of that mallet through
8 that truck.
9 Q. So he's hitting this truck?
10 A. Oh, yeah.
11 Q. And he's --
12 A. And there's people screaming, there's kids
13 there, there's people there. I've never seen someone go
14 on a rampage like that. I thought someone --
15 Q. So he's hitting the truck --
16 A. Oh, yeah.
17 Q. -- is that right?
18 A. Oh, yeah.
19 Q. Okay. And then you hear a shot?
20 A. As I start running.
21 Q. Right. You hear a shot. You didn't see the
22 shot, but you turn around, you say, and went back; is
23 that right?
24 A. Yep.
25 Q. And you see Vincent lying on the ground; is
1 that right?
2 A. Yeah, I see Vincent lying on the ground, I
3 see all kinds of -- it was so fast --
4 Q. Do you see Kyle?
5 A. -- I see all the people around. I don't
6 remember seeing Kyle. I can't --
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I mean, I might have saw Kyle for a fraction
9 of a second, Corey, everyone. There's so many people,
10 kids, parents that just --
11 Q. I don't want to put words in your mouth.
12 I'm saying I'm -- I want this -- what you say you saw --
13 A. Yeah, that's what I saw.
14 Q. -- because you say you turned around after
15 hearing the shot --
16 A. I see a bunch of people. It was like seeing
17 all the same people.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. There was just so many people.
20 Q. But you see Vincent lying on the ground.
21 Where was he on the ground?
22 A. Right. Yeah, I see someone laying there. I
23 want to say on the passenger's side because all our
24 trucks are parked there. They're parked in a circle.
25 One's parked this way, this way, that way. They're all
1 park weird.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And I think Kyle's truck was sitting like
4 this and Vincent was laying on this -- on the left side
5 of it, on the passenger's side on the ground.
6 Q. Was Vincent face down or face up?
7 A. He was on his back.
8 Q. He was on his back. Okay. And then you
9 turn and run again away and you hear more shots. Do you
10 know how many shots?
11 A. I don't -- what I don't remember honestly is
12 if -- when I started running the first time, I know I
13 heard that first shot, but there might have been a
14 second shot when he was chasing him. That's how I don't
15 know how he got on the ground because what I -- I mean,
16 I wasn't there, didn't see that, but what I was told was
17 he shot him in the leg and he still came after him.
18 Q. Who told you that?
19 A. There -- who told me he was shot in the leg.
20 Q. But you didn't see that. What you saw --
21 A. I talked -- we talked to so many people last
22 night. I talked to so many people calling my phone,
23 asking me what happened, were you with them, were you
24 with them, and I talked to so many people, and
25 everyone's saying Corey shot him in the chest, he's --
1 Kyle shot him in the leg. I mean, there's so many
2 stories to this but -- but what I --
3 Q. But you -- but what you heard was a shot --
4 A. -- what I saw was the first shot, and there
5 might have been another shot or two because I heard four
6 or five total. I mean, I can't -- what I honestly --
7 Q. Right.
8 A. -- can tell you right now, I can't put all
9 the shots together.
10 Q. But what I'm saying is after you heard the
11 first shot, you looked back --
12 A. And there might have been another one.
13 Q. -- and you saw Vincent lying on the ground?
14 A. Yeah, and there might have been two shots at
15 that point.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I just don't remember. There was four to
18 five shots within such a period of time from when I ran
19 back and was running, just from the two times I ran,
20 there must have been four to five, maybe even six shots,
21 and I -- I know --
22 Q. Okay. Did you hear anybody saying anything?
23 A. He's hurt, he's hurt.
24 Q. And who said that?
25 A. Just some lady. People were screaming he's
1 hurt, he's hurt, and that's when I thought someone got
2 hit with the ax, and I thought the guns were being shot
3 off in self-defense. I knew they were in self-defense.
4 Q. But you don't know that?
5 A. I know my friends and --
6 Q. But you don't know that. You didn't see it.
7 A. I didn't --
8 Q. I don't want you to talk about what you
9 think. I want you to talk about what you saw. That's
10 what we're talking about here. Okay? What you heard
11 and what you saw.
12 A. Um hum.
13 Q. You heard a shot, you looked back, you see
14 Vincent on the ground, you turn and run away. You did
15 not look back, but you heard other shots after that?
16 A. I -- I heard a couple shots, like I'm
18 Q. You -- right.
19 A. I'm not going to lie, so I don't know how to
20 explain this. I'm telling you I heard the first shot,
21 but whether there was another one right after that that
22 put him on the ground, I don't know.
23 Q. Right.
24 A. I don't remember if there was another shot
25 when I started running or if I turned around and there
1 was four shots after that.
2 Q. But after -- from -- after hearing a
3 gunshot --
4 A. So fast.
5 Q. -- or some gunshots, you turn and look and
6 you see Vincent lying on the ground?
7 A. And he was laying there, yeah.
8 Q. Prior to that, you never saw anybody
9 actually get hit with the ax; is that right?
10 A. No.
11 Q. I'm sorry?
12 A. No, I didn't.
13 Q. Okay. What you did see was Vincent hitting
14 the truck with the ax several times?
15 A. And almost hit Kyle the first time.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. The first shot that came at the truck was
18 towards Kyle. He hit the truck, and then he decided to
19 keep going after the truck --
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. -- is what I saw.
22 Q. Okay. Okay. So you see what I'm
23 wondering -- I -- I'm getting at is I'm trying to -- I'm
24 trying to see the whole picture of what's going on at
25 the ball field, and it's obvious that arrangements were
1 made to meet at that ball field and that -- you know,
2 that there was some heated conversations prior to that
3 and there's a little bit of history from the days prior
4 leading up to this, and when Vincent gets there -- who
5 else was in the vehicle with Vincent when he gets to the
6 ball field?
7 A. Julie Kronberg, his girlfriend, and Kirby
9 Q. Okay. And --
10 A. Julie was driving.
11 Q. Okay. And --
12 A. I think. Pretty sure (inaudible).
13 Q. -- when he was standing up there with this
14 stun gun, he was approximately 75 to 100 yards from you?
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. It was your guys' group that advanced to his
17 location; is that right?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. He stayed by the vehicle?
20 A. Yeah, it was Tim who basically was the head
21 of everybody.
22 Q. And once -- how many people were in your
23 group moving up to him?
24 A. There was three moving up to him. We stayed
25 back where all the other people were.
1 Q. But how many were -- okay. How many people
2 were there approximately yelling maybe?
3 A. How many people were at the ball field?
4 God, I don't know. There was the team plus the parents.
5 Q. Were they all -- but I mean how many in the
6 total group of people moving toward Vincent?
7 A. The top -- the top three were moving towards
8 him. We stayed back. Obviously we were --
9 Q. But you were moving up toward them though.
10 You were back, but you were still going in the same
12 A. No. No.
13 Q. You just stood there and you never walked
14 toward him?
15 A. If you want to say -- I -- no, I was in the
16 group with all the people.
17 Q. Right.
18 A. Right here in the middle of the group is
19 where I was talking because I went over and saw a couple
20 of my friends over there --
21 Q. Um hum.
22 A. -- talking to them. When Tim started to
23 head up there, I see they're a ways ahead and they
24 started out there, and I walked out towards the end of
25 these group of people that were hanging out, and I was
1 standing next to a lady that was saying I can't have
2 this here, my kids, my kids, and I said no, I said this
3 ain't good, I don't -- I said I don't know what's going
4 to happen, and I stayed back there with the lady that
5 was right there within the whole group of people.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. They all headed up there in the top three
8 that were right up there near him that walked up -- in
9 fact, if Tom was right ahead, then behind him were these
11 Q. Now, is there -- is there still some verbal
12 communication between them and Vincent at this time?
13 A. I couldn't hear what -- I couldn't hear what
14 was being said at that --
15 Q. Could you hear yelling?
16 A. I could hear -- yeah.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. I mean, I could hear both of them saying
19 some stuff, but I couldn't hear it. I was back here.
20 Q. What did it sound to you like?
21 A. I don't know. They were just talking. They
22 weren't completely screaming, yelling. Little heated.
23 As mad as they were on the phone, no. Like I said, Tom
24 was -- Tim was going up there to figure out what this
25 kid's problem was. That's what it sounded like to me
1 with Tim.
2 Q. Um hum.
3 A. Tim had made that loud and clear.
4 Q. How did Tim get involved in this?
5 A. I told you Jerry called him.
6 Q. Right, but I mean how did Tim think that
7 Vincent had a problem with Tim?
8 A. I don't know. That's what I said. He just
9 kept saying that at the field. He just kept saying
10 why -- what's this kid's problem with me, why does he
11 got a problem with me, I'll go figure this out.
12 Q. Did somebody say he had a problem with --
13 A. No, no one ever said he had a problem. When
14 Jerry called him, Jerry never said he had a problem with
15 Tim prior. I think Tim was just there just getting --
16 so -- to make sure nothing happened because Tim's a
17 bigger kid from what I know. I've never met him.
18 Q. So this -- it sounds to me that Jerry --
19 when you guys were riding in the truck, Jerry makes this
20 call to Tim; is that right?
21 A. I think he was scared by the sounds of it.
22 Q. Who was?
23 A. Jerry obviously if he was calling somebody
25 Q. Okay. Is that why they chose the ball
2 A. Why?
3 Q. Because Tim was there?
4 A. I don't know. I don't even know. That's
5 the first time I've been down to that ball field in
7 Q. I mean, how did --
8 A. I don't know why they chose the ball field.
9 Q. When Jerry called Tim, did he know that Tim
10 was at the ball field?
11 A. No, he didn't. That was the weird thing.
12 He had called and he said we could meet at the -- he
13 said we're going to go down the ball field, and Tim said
14 I'm already down here. He just had -- they just had a
15 baseball game.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I don't know if it was a tournament or if it
18 was just a game, but it just got done.
19 Q. Okay. Okay. All right. So since this --
20 since this happened, okay, who have you spoken with
21 about this incident?
22 A. Who have I spoken with? I talked to -- I
23 didn't -- I talked to Corey just before I came here
24 about the event.
25 Q. Okay. And what did Corey tell you?
1 A. Corey told me that he -- his parents have a
2 lawyer, and he gave me the lawyer's number, and the
3 lawyer wants me to call him and talk with him.
4 Q. Did you call him?
5 A. I haven't called him yet.
6 Q. Who's the lawyer?
7 A. I don't know. I just got the number at the
9 Q. Okay. So you spoke to Corey. What else did
10 Corey tell you? Did he say anything about the incident?
11 A. That was just it. That was just it. He
12 told me that we can use as much help as we can get,
13 Tristan. He just said my -- my lawyer needs -- he needs
14 people to talk to him from the incident, and he goes he
15 told me to talk to anyone I can and try and get them to
16 call him and set up a meeting. I said Corey, I will
17 definitely do that for you in a heartbeat.
18 Q. Now, let me ask you this. You, Kyle, Corey
19 and Jerry are in the -- in Kyle's truck with two guns.
20 Jerry's had this heated conversation with Vincent. He's
21 also spoken to Tim Arbuckle about Vincent and this
22 altercation that's going to take place, this -- this
23 meeting at the ball field. As you're going there --
24 and, you know, I'm sure there's some, you know -- is
25 there some conversation in the truck about this on the
1 way there?
2 A. Not really. I mean, they were just playing
3 music, loud music. They kept turning the music up so he
4 couldn't even talk.
5 Q. Okay. Was anybody drinking?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Who?
8 A. Corey, Kyle and Jerry.
9 Q. Okay. When you say drinking, how much had
10 they had to drink?
11 A. I don't know honestly because when I got in
12 the truck with them --
13 Q. Were they drinking while they were driving?
14 Look, this isn't a DWI case, okay, but were they
15 drinking when they were driving? Or when they were
16 cruising around, were they drinking? Were they having
17 some beers?
18 A. I didn't see -- I didn't -- no, I didn't see
19 Corey with a beer in his hand. I think I was pretty
20 aware that he had been drinking, I think, but I didn't
21 see him with a beer in his hand when he was driving.
22 Q. Okay. When you say that you were aware
23 that they had been drinking, did you see Jerry with a
25 A. Yeah, Jerry had a beer. He was in the back
2 Q. Did you see -- did you see Corey with a
4 A. No, not Corey.
5 Q. Did you see Kyle with a beer?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. What kind of beer was it?
8 A. Budweiser I'm pretty sure.
9 Q. The King of Beers?
10 A. Oh, yeah.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. I hate beer.
13 Q. How do you know Corey was drinking? You say
14 it was obvious to you that he was?
15 A. Because it just seemed -- it seemed as
16 though they were all -- they were all riled up, they
17 were just listening to music, and I know them, but I
18 don't know if Corey was honestly because he didn't have
19 a beer. I knew those two because they had a beer in
20 their hand.
21 Q. How was their speech?
22 A. How was their speech? Sounded fine to me.
23 Q. Their eyes?
24 A. Looked fine to me. That other two, Jerry
25 and obviously Kyle were drinking.
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. But I don't know about Corey. It just seems
3 as though, but I don't know if he was or not. He could
4 have been at his house. Who knows. But I didn't see
5 Corey with any beer.
6 Q. But without a doubt, you're positive you saw
7 Kyle and Jerry drinking beer?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Budweiser?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. How many did you see them drink?
12 A. Two or three within the time I was with
14 Q. Two or three at the time that you were with
16 A. Um hum.
17 Q. Did you see any empty cans?
18 A. Did I see any empty cans? Yeah, they must
19 have had empty cans in the -- in the 12-pack or whatever
20 they had. I didn't even see whether it was 12- or
21 24-pack, but I imagine there was some in there, but no,
22 I didn't see it.
23 Q. Was it more than a six-pack they had?
24 A. I'm pretty sure there was a 12-pack.
25 Q. Okay.
1 A. I don't know if it was 12 or 24. I don't
2 know honestly, and I'm sure they were putting them back
3 in there.
4 Q. Okay. So my question is this is taking
5 place. You guys think this Vincent -- or you think this
6 Vincent -- because it doesn't sound like Jerry's afraid
7 of him?
8 A. Well, if he's calling Tim Arbuckle, it does
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. To me. I mean, I think he -- I think people
12 try to act tougher than they are, and when you see
13 something like that, when he's calling Tim and just
14 explain to Tim, you know, this kid --
15 Q. At what point --
16 A. -- it sounded like he was scared of him at
17 that point.
18 Q. At what point while you --
19 A. (Inaudible).
20 Q. -- you're riding in the truck with these
21 three people who you know have been drinking --
22 A. The two.
23 Q. Or two that you know have been drinking.
24 You think -- you thought Corey might have been
1 A. I'm not sure if Corey was.
2 Q. But you're not sure. Okay. You're not
3 sure. You're not sure. Kyle and Jerry are definitely
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. They've got guns in the truck. They're on
7 their way to confront this Vincent, Jerry and Tim
8 Arbuckle and whatnot. You're going to the ball field to
9 confront him. At any time during that, did you or
10 anybody else in the truck say hey, let's -- let's go
11 to the police station, let's tell the police about
13 A. No, and you want to know why in my eyes?
14 Because Springfield PD didn't do their job.
15 Q. Okay. At what point did anybody say let's
16 go to the state police barracks in Rockingham?
17 A. What's the state police any different than
18 Springfield's around here. Statewide jurisdiction.
19 They're all the same to me, and I've dealt with all of
20 them --
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. -- and I can tell you right now that they
23 weren't doing their job.
24 Q. You're saying the state police?
25 A. I'm saying that Springfield didn't do their
1 job --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- and the state police should have been
4 involved when that kid came, you know, trespassing at my
5 house and I told him not to.
6 Q. Okay. Now, when you guys are in the truck,
7 you're going to meet with this -- this is important.
8 Okay? It's important.
9 A. Oh, yeah, definitely.
10 Q. All right? You guys are on your way to
11 confront somebody who you -- you're afraid of, you said,
12 and you've got guns in the trucks, there's alcohol
13 involved, and I'm wondering did anybody say let's call
14 the state police?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did anybody say let's call Springfield
18 A. Why would they?
19 Q. Okay. Did anybody say let's call Chester
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. But you have a cell phone with you;
23 is that right?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. You have the ability to call 911; is that
2 A. Um hum.
3 Q. Okay. I --
4 A. I wasn't doing anything wrong, though, but
5 it was --
6 Q. And that's fine, but you --
7 A. I wasn't drinking, I didn't have a gun in my
8 hand --
9 Q. I -- I'm not saying --
10 A. -- I wasn't doing nothing --
11 Q. Believe me --
12 A. -- and why am I going to call someone that I
13 don't feel is there even to help me.
14 Q. Tristan, believe me, I understand that
15 you --
16 A. I'm just saying I'm going to explain my
17 side on this a little bit, too, and how I feel about
18 the situation and how I feel about them doing their
20 Q. Right. I understand that. But what I'm
21 saying is you -- you saw these guys put guns in the
22 truck and you know where you're going. Now, I'm not
23 saying you did anything -- I'm not saying you did
24 anything wrong, Tristan. I'm trying to get to the
25 bottom of it. Okay?
1 I'm trying to understand the mood, the
2 situation where you guys are moving to this ball field.
3 Okay? What's taking place here and what's taking place
4 to lead up to that, and I'm -- I'm trying to see that,
5 you know, you know where you're headed with this -- I
6 mean, you got -- you're sitting in the truck headed
7 there. You -- did you -- did you think this was a bad
8 situation as you're driving there?
9 A. I told you when Jerry and Kyle got out of
10 the truck, I said to Corey I'm scared, Corey, you know,
11 I don't know what's going to happen.
12 Q. Okay. So you -- you knew it wasn't a good
14 A. I knew that that kid is not a good
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I knew he was going to hurt somebody. I
18 knew he -- you know, I thought --
19 Q. So when he was standing up there
20 approximately 75 to 100 yards away and you saw Kyle,
21 Jerry and Tim headed toward him, you didn't think that
22 was a good situation, did you?
23 A. Scared shitless.
24 Q. You were what?
25 A. Scared shitless, shaking.
1 Q. Okay. Okay. So --
2 A. I know I -- I told everyone -- I told
3 everyone that this kid is psycho, he's huge, he's big.
4 No one listened to me, dude. I can -- I didn't -- you
5 just see him -- I didn't feel comfortable in my house
6 anymore after he came to my house that night. I have
7 never -- when that kid walked up in my house that day,
8 Detective, I have never felt so uncomfortable in my
9 house when he walked up there, when we told him not to
10 come up there.
11 Q. Tell me about this -- did -- what was the
12 situation between Ben, Julie and Vincent?
13 A. I don't know because I've never been in the
14 middle of that. All I know is what was said that day at
15 my house (inaudible).
16 Q. Okay. But it was said there. Did -- did it
17 seem to you that Vincent was there to see this Ben?
18 A. Um hum. And because I don't think he
19 liked the text message I wrote to her saying don't
20 bring strangers to my house, which clearly meant
22 Q. Yeah.
23 A. I mean, he was there that -- on Thursday
24 night, and we were scared shitless and intimidated by
25 him, and Michelle said please don't ever let that kid
1 back in our house. I said trust me, I won't. And then
2 Kirby was calling us that day and we didn't answer, and
3 I wrote a text message saying please don't bring
4 strangers into our house, we can't deal with the drama
5 at our house, short story, and please don't call mine or
6 Michelle's phones. 20 minutes later, he's walking in my
7 house, and I never felt like I could not protect myself
8 or my girlfriend for the first time in my life.
9 Q. What was the conversation in the truck with
10 Jerry, Tim, Kyle? What -- what was going on when they
11 were talking about meeting this Vincent? What were
12 their intentions? What were they going to do?
13 A. They never said what they were going to do.
14 There was never any intentions to fight, there was never
15 any intentions to shoot somebody, there was never any
16 intentions to anything. All that I thought was going to
17 happen to is someone was going to get scared, at the
18 least, someone was going to throw a punch. That's what
19 I thought was going to happen.
20 I figure that these kids just don't want
21 people coming into Vermont and going in people's houses
22 and scaring the shit out of someone like us and carrying
23 a knife around, carrying a stun gun around, punching
24 somebody with an open knife in his hand. I mean, people
25 are scared of this kid. This kid is crazy and that's
1 how I felt.
2 Q. Okay. Okay. You understand I'm trying to
3 get the full picture --
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. -- because, you know, at some point during
6 that road trip with the alc -- with Jerry and Kyle
7 drinking -- were you drinking?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. So Kyle and Jerry drinking, the
10 conversations you're hearing take place --
11 A. They tried to offer me a beer.
12 Q. -- knowing where you're headed, guns in the
13 vehicle, and I -- I just -- I wanted to understand, you
14 know, the situation that -- and you had the cell
15 phone --
16 A. I think that everyone -- I think everyone
17 felt scared because if -- I mean, if Kyle's got a --
18 Q. But not --
19 A. -- Kyle's got a gun, Corey ends up getting a
20 gun, that seemed like scared acts to me, and then Jerry
21 calling Tim, another scared act. I mean, I'm filling
22 these kids -- telling them that I -- this kid's crazy.
23 I go I'd even -- I said it. I told them plenty of
24 times, I said this kid's crazy, I don't feel safe at my
25 house, I don't know if he's going to be there when I go
1 home at nighttime.
2 I can't even sleep anymore. I'm staying
3 at my sister's house. I got -- we got to move out of
4 our apartment over here in Chester now. And now me
5 and my girlfriend are scared shitless, and she's so
6 scared that we can't even stay in our apartment that
7 people are going to come up from Boston because of this
9 Q. Okay. Okay. What I'd like to do -- and
10 time right now is 1899 hours. If you could raise your
11 right hand for me, please. Do you swear everything you
12 have told me is the truth, nothing but the truth, so
13 help you God?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Do you have any reason to lie to me today?
16 A. No, I don't.
17 Q. Is there any lies in this statement that you
19 A. No, there is not.
20 Q. Okay. Have you got any reason to lie for
22 A. No, I do not.
23 Q. Okay. Would you lie for somebody?
24 A. No, I wouldn't.
25 Q. Okay. Again do you swear everything you
1 have told me, including what we just went over, is the
2 truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
3 A. Yes, I do.
4 DET. SGT. WALT SMITH: Okay. And that
5 concludes this statement. The time now is 1820 hours.
6 The date is still 8/18/2008.
7 (Thereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
3 I, Donna Gould, do hereby certify that the
4 foregoing pages, numbered 1 through 80, inclusive, are a
5 true and accurate transcription, to the best of my
6 ability, of the digitally-recorded statement of Tristan
7 Blanchard held on August 18, 2008, in the matter of
8 State v. Kyle Bolaski, at the Vermont State Police
9 barracks in Rockingham, Vermont.
15 Donna Gould
THE FOLLOWING ARE THE GRAND JURY STATEMENTS OF TRISTAN BLANCHARD. YOU WILL SEE HOW MUCH IT DIFFERS FROM HIS INITIAL STATEMENTS TO NOW COINCIDE WITH BOLASKI'S. YOU WILL SEE HOW ROBERT SAND ALLOWS, AND EVEN ENCOURAGES BLANCHARD TO LIE ABOUT THE EVENTS. HOW SAND NEVER CHALLENGES HIM ON ANY OF HIS TESTIMONY. HOW SAND ALLOWS PERJURY!
05 MR. SAND: Tristan Blanchard is the next
07 (Witness sworn by Foreperson)
08 THE WITNESS: Yes.
09 BY MR. SAND:
10 Q. Would you introduce yourself, please, to the grand
12 A. Tristan Blanchard, born in Springfield, work for
13 NBC Solid Services, Springfield.
14 Q. Where do you live now?
15 A. In Chester, Vermont, 23 School Street, middle of
16 Chester, on the green.
17 Q. And who do you live with?
18 A. My girl friend, Michelle Lachapelle.
19 Q. How would you like me to address you,
20 Mr. Blanchard, Tristan?
21 A. Tristan's fine.
22 Q. Okay. Tristan, before you came here today, are
23 you aware that I had some discussions with an attorney
24 that you had spoken with?
25 A. Yes.
01 Q. Okay. And are you aware that I indicated in a
02 letter to your attorney that, to the extent you had any
03 contact, connection with, involvement with anything
04 involving any illegal drugs that related to this case,
05 you would not be prosecuted for that?
06 A. Yep.
07 Q. You remember?
08 A. Yes.
09 Q. So you were given what we call immunity so that
10 could you talk here today, tell the jury, grand jury, the
11 truth, and you won't have to worry about getting yourself
12 in trouble?
13 A. Um-hum, yes.
14 Q. Right? So is it your understanding today as I ask
15 you questions you won't get in trouble for anything that
16 I ask you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. So with that understanding, when is the
19 first time that you met a person who, by the name of
21 A. It was the Thursday night prior to Sunday which
22 was the incident on Sunday.
23 Q. How did you meet Vinny?
24 A. Kirby had called my phone, Kirby Donahue, they
25 had -- Gib Bastian, one of the other people involved,
01 they used to come over to our house frequently because me
02 and Michelle known Gib for years, and she used to date
03 Gib. They broken up before this happened. And we didn't
04 really want Kirby at our house anymore. We knew she was
05 trouble. We knew she was problem. She caused a lot of
06 drama between Michelle and her cousin and other friends
07 involved. We basically, we didn't want her at our house
08 anymore. She called our phone Thursday night. I wasn't
09 aware of her number. They changed her number because Gib
10 and her broke up. A lot of people were answering her
11 phones for that reason. Me and Michelle aren't going to
12 be one, do you want to go out and party, you want to go
13 out and do something? Basically getting us to go out.
14 Can I stop by? I have a friend with me, his name is
15 Vinny. I mean, friends stop by, so I said go ahead,
16 bring him over.
17 Q. As a result of that phone call, did they come to
18 your house?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Had you met Vinny before?
21 A. Never.
22 Q. Who arrived at your house?
23 A. As far as I know, Julie Kronberg.
24 Q. Who arrives in the house?
25 A. In my house, came in my house, was Kirby and
02 Q. Who was at your house?
03 A. Me and Michelle and Jeff Cole, C-O-L-E.
04 Q. How did that visit go?
05 A. A little scary. When he walked in the door, he
06 walked up my stairs inside the kitchen, I got the
07 impression I was in trouble. I mean, he wasn't a kid. I
08 can tell he was older, what, I know he was thirty-three
09 years old. He was easily two hundred fifty, three
10 hundred pounds, had a tools wife beater on, which is a
11 tank top, kind of, for guys. And we walked up and sat
12 down. Kirby sat down. They told us they were going out,
13 I want to say they were going to West Lebanon, New
14 Hampshire, out to the club. I'm not sure, pretty sure
15 that's what they said, though. And they were trying to
16 get Michelle more or less to go because they know I don't
17 like to go, or Kirby does, and Michelle's saying I don't
18 want to go, we're saying at the house . He started
19 introducing himself, he said my name's Vin, I'm from
20 Boston, with a Boston accent. He said my brother is CT,
21 he's known very well from being on the MTV show Real
22 World, where they bring a bunch of kids together from the
23 world, put them in the house together, and they live
24 together, and they tape it. His brother is pretty well
25 known. I know who he was. And he said I'm CT's brother,
01 I'm Vinny, I'm from Boston, I'm from Boston. He started
02 going on next about some pills, he said I can get
03 OxyCotin eighty milligrams, I just had a hundred, a
04 hundred fifty of them the day before, bring them back
05 from Boston, get you plenty more. Do you want any? Do
06 you like them? I said no, I'm not interested, I don't do
07 stuff like that. Well, you like Xanax? I can get them.
08 I said no, I don't like them. He sat there and kept,
09 you're sure? I explained several times I didn't want
10 them. He looked on the table, I had two pills on the
11 table, one and a half, actually, they were OxyCotin,
12 Percocet. I'm prescribed them for my work, I've been out
13 of work for workman's comp.
14 Q. You're --
15 A. I'm, for a back injury at NBC, I'm prescribed
16 OxyCotin. I've been to the Mt. Ascutney Medical Center,
17 plenty of places. Well, he said, can I get one of those
18 off you? I said no, I'm prescribed those, those are for
19 my back, I'm out on workman's comp. He said come on,
20 come on, I like those, too. I said I don't care.
21 Several times I told him no. Got to the point where he
22 kept asking, said, well, he picks up the half one, can I
23 have this, can I have this? I'll give you Xanax for it.
24 I sat there, I didn't know what to say anymore. I told
25 you no a thousand times. He put it in his pocket and
01 threw the Xanax on the table. Threw it out after he
02 left. Before he left he sat there, he said, Kirby, let's
03 get fucked up, here, this is this koladapin. She
04 swallows it. Ask Michelle again to go out. We made it
05 clear we didn't want to go out. He stood up, shook my
06 hand. That night I let him go on his good graces, get
07 him out of my house.
08 Q. Okay, I'm going to certain areas, try to move you
09 along a little bit. If I cut you off, I'm not trying to
10 be rude, but I'm also aware of the time.
11 A. Yep.
12 Q. As a result of that visit, did you call or text
13 anyone about telling them not to come back to your house?
14 A. Not until they called again.
15 Q. Who called you?
16 A. Saturday, Kirby called me. And she called me
17 several times. Only reason I answered her phone call on
18 Thursday was because she had broken up with Gib and
19 changed her number. Now I have her number, I said I'm
20 not answering this phone call. Michelle said several
21 times don't answer it, so I didn't. I had decided the
22 best thing to do is write her a text message, which write
23 on the phone, she can read it. I wrote to her simply
24 stating there's been problems with you, Michelle, other
25 friends that came here for years, I said obviously if
01 there's problem with you and the people coming here, you
02 can't be coming here anymore. I said don't call my
03 phone, don't call Michelle's phone anymore, and please
04 don't ever bring a stranger to my house again. Thank
05 you. Very simple and nice.
06 Q. In referencing that you're telling Kirby stop her
07 contact with you and Michelle, and you are indicating
08 don't bring strangers, referencing Vinny?
09 A. Um-hum.
10 Q. Yes?
11 A. Oh, yeah.
12 Q. That's a text message?
13 A. Yep.
14 Q. When's the next time that you see Vinny?
15 A. About ten, twenty minutes later.
16 Q. After sending the next message?
17 A. Yep.
18 Q. What happened?
19 A. We're sitting there playing PS3 on my TV in my
20 living room, me, Ben Millay, was there, and Jordan.
21 Michelle was in the bedroom. I look over, and it was
22 like stunning, he's standing in my kitchen. He got to
23 walk through two doors at the bottom of my stairs to get
24 into my apartment. It's apartment building. You walk
25 through one door, mud room, walk through another door, go
01 upstairs, you're in the kitchen. The kitchen is the
02 living room. I look over, he's standing in my kitchen.
03 Standing there. I said, I looked twice, what's going on
04 here? Said something bad is going to happen here. Don't
05 know what he wants, don't know what he needs. He
06 obviously saw that text message, was upset. She showed
07 it to him. Well, out comes Kirby. Michelle came walking
08 out of the bedroom and looked and saw him. Michelle
09 didn't take that kind of stuff, is not one to take him
10 walking into her home. Michelle came out, get out of my
11 house now. He didn't move, didn't listen, didn't say
12 nothing. Kirby started yelling, Michelle, what did I do
13 to you? What's wrong? What did I do to you? Michelle
14 started explaining herself quickly, she said I don't have
15 to explain myself, this is my house, get out.
16 Q. If I do this, Tristan, I'm slowing you down.
17 A. I'll try to watch you. She turned around, crying,
18 turned around, down the stairs. And he stood there,
19 still didn't say anything. He approached, come walking
20 up that first step, walked right up in my living room.
21 That's when I needed to stand up, stand up in my home,
22 say something, do something. I didn't know exactly what
23 to do. I was still nervous, and he's a lot bigger than I
24 am. Walked up, stands in my face, he puts his finger in
25 my face, and he says you got a fucking problem? I said
01 not really, other than you're in our home, I don't know
02 who you are, you're a stranger to me. He looked at Ben
03 sitting on the couch, he goes who are you? I'm Ben.
04 Let's go outside and talk. Ben goes no, don't want to go
05 outside and talk. I said, Ben, stay right here. He
06 goes, goes again, let's go outside and talk, what, are
07 you scared? Ben says, no, we're talking right here,
08 talking right now, you can talk to me right here. He
09 said no, come on, let's go outside. Said it several
10 times. Ben told me later on that night he put a
11 cigarette in his mouth and went outside with him to get
12 him out of my house. He felt it was the best thing, just
13 to get him out.
14 Q. Did he go out?
15 A. Yes. Michelle said don't worry, Ben, we are right
16 behind you. He went down there, he got in Ben's face. I
17 couldn't hear what they were talking about other than
18 Vinny saying something about a text message sent to Julie
19 this morning or some point, and Ben, I heard say, there's
20 no text message, I don't know what you're talking about,
21 said I don't know what to tell you. Said so there is a
22 text message, you're lying to me, it's like you want to
23 fight me right now. Ben says no, I don't want to fight
24 you. Told him flat out. What, are you scared? No, I'm
25 not scared because I'm not going to fight you.
01 Q. Is that Ben talking or you talking?
02 A. That was Ben talking to him. He said I'm not
03 going to fight you, I'm not scared, the only reason I'm
04 not scared because I have no reason to fight you, he
05 said, over a girl, when I didn't even write this, Ben
06 said. Here, come over with me. Walked over to Julie's
07 car and Julie was sitting in the back seat. Said Julie,
08 where's that text message? She didn't have anything to
09 say. There was no text message.
10 Q. Did you have some further interaction with Vinny?
11 A. Oh, yeah. At that point, he came over and looked
12 at me, started yelling, get me a forty bag, get me a
13 forty bag, which meant a bag of marijuana, and I went
14 upstairs. Michelle was still upstairs. I said Michelle
15 we call the cops. Why should we? He's going to attack
16 Ben right now, I don't know what to do with this kid. I
17 want to get him out of here. She said give him what he
18 wants. Grab my own personal bag, my pot on the table,
19 which probably make a forty bag, I don't know what it
21 Q. Is that, that weight or dollar amount?
22 A. What he was saying was dollar, a forty bag, forty
23 dollars. I went up, grabbed what I had on my table, my
24 own bag. I said here's some here. Walked away by
25 ourselves. That was about my dumbest move to this day.
01 He could have stabbed me, he could have hit me, stabbed
02 me, anything. He smelled it, I'll get your money. Felt
03 like, I don't want your money, get out of here. It was
04 mine, anyway, I don't sell drugs. I said it was mine, I
05 felt like saying, to get him out of here. Followed him
06 up. He said Julie, give me money. Julie, give me money.
07 She goes to open her purse, and she closes it back up.
08 He says, Kirby, get in the car. Why does Kirby need to
09 get in the car? Kirby, get in the car. What are you
10 doing? He backs up, and Kirby gets in. I said what are
11 you doing? He keeps backing up. All right, said that
12 was it. Worst mistake, I started getting upset. I
13 started crying. I realized at that point I felt about
14 this low. I couldn't protect my home, couldn't protect
15 my girl friend, my friends in my own home. Never felt so
16 scared, so lost. He was twice the size I was, you could
17 tell the kind of person he was by looking at him. My
18 reaction was to do something about it. I hopped in my
20 Q. They left, and you hadn't been paid?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Is that right?
23 A. Nope. That was the last thing I was worried about
24 at that point. I was mad about, about him breaking into
25 my home.
01 Q. You were mad he broke in your home?
02 A. Threatening my girl friend, threatening me.
03 Q. You said you didn't want strangers --
04 A. Oh, yeah.
05 Q. Followed him going to Springfield?
06 A. What happened was I followed him out of there. I
07 jumped right in my car, followed him right down to the
08 middle of Chester, down to Mike Gleason's house, right in
09 front of Mike Gleason's, and I was right behind him. My
10 instant reaction, I wanted to smash my car into this kid,
11 I wanted to do anything, I need to do something. I
12 didn't do anything, but I didn't, I held back. I've been
13 in trouble, I know what you're supposed to do. I held
14 back. He turned in this road, turned into driveway, came
15 back out after me. That's when I realized I got no shoes
16 on, I don't have a cell phone, I don't have a weapon, I
17 have nothing. What am I going to do? So I pulled into
18 Mike's. That's when I started banging on Mike's door,
19 screaming and yelling. I thought they were going to pull
20 into Mike's, and they didn't. Mike said, Tristan, calm
21 down. I told him the kid had threatened me and my girl
22 friend and Ben.
23 Q. Tristan, one of the reasons that I'm going to move
24 you along is we've heard a lot of this, so if it feels
25 like I'm pushing you a little bit, it's probable because
01 I am, to some areas that may be more critical. Did you
02 go to Springfield?
03 A. Yeah.
04 Q. Okay. And who are you, were you with?
05 A. Mike Gleason.
06 Q. Anyone else in this vehicle?
07 A. No.
08 Q. Did another car of your friends go to Springfield
09 as well?
10 A. Yeah, Michelle, Ben, and Jordan went looking for
11 me when I went down to Mike's.
12 Q. Okay. What happened when you got to Springfield?
13 A. I got to Springfield, and everyone had already
14 followed him up to Julie's house. There was an
15 altercation on the back road. Michelle, and then -- but
16 you'll find that out.
17 Q. You weren't there for that?
18 A. I wasn't there for that. They followed him, found
19 him on the North Springfield. They were at Springfield
20 over Julie Kronberg's house at Summer Street where he was
21 staying and at his girl friend's house. I pulled into
22 Summer Street. I pulled into a funeral house, which is a
23 few houses down, so I could park. I got out of my car,
24 and I could see probably eight to ten people down there,
25 grouped up. I said what is going on? What's this kid
01 doing? And my first instant reaction, grab my little
02 crowbar, bar this big. I went running up there because
03 my girl friend was up there. I didn't know what was
04 going on. I know this kid came into my house, broken
05 into my house, done this stuff, what he was capable of
06 was beyond me. I run up there, I started to get up
07 to him. I didn't have it drawn back, I didn't have it,
08 nothing. I ran up to him. I saw he had a blade sticking
09 out about this high in his hand yelling at everybody,
10 come at me, come at me. He saw me. When he came at me a
11 little bit, he said come on, come on. I said I don't
12 think so. I ain't going at you, forget it.
13 Michelle's brother was up there, Jeremiah
14 Lachapelle. Jeremiah is probably twenty-seven, twenty-
15 eight. I'm twenty-two. Jeremiah is protecting his
16 sister. He was up in this kid's face. Mya was from me
17 to her. I was standing right here next to Mya. Mya
18 said, Tristan, you and me are close, he could have
19 stabbed us any point in time. Mya was smoking a cigar,
20 saying drop that knife right now, you want to go my
21 sister's house, you got a problem, drop the knife, we'll
22 settle it. No, back up, back up. Mya's still standing
23 there. He didn't like it. He kept telling Mya back up.
24 He went to flip at him, went to stab him. I jumped back,
25 said he's going to stab you, Mya. I don't care. Look at
01 this, I got scars, my knife wounds, I got wounds
02 everywhere. Mya just had surgery, was cut open from here
03 to here. Shows him cut from here to here. Done by a
04 hospital, not on the street like him, and the kid didn't
05 like that. Again he went at Mya a second time. And I
06 said, forget this, we need to get out of here, we need to
07 do something.
08 That point Michelle and Jordan and the
09 other two girls up on the porch. Julie Kronberg and
10 Kirby were all yelling at each other, they are on the
11 street, and they were all here. Michelle and Jordan
12 approached halfway up the lawn, and those girls stayed
13 there. Michelle and Jordan Ebelt were yelling. Julie's
14 mom came running out of the doorway, jumps in Michelle's
15 face, starts pushing her, pushing her, get the fuck off
16 my property, leave my property now, Michelle. Tried for
17 a second to explain this kid broke in her house, you
18 know, who you got living in your house, I don't
19 understand. The lady wasn't having it, get off my
20 property. Michelle had enough, walked away. Jordan
21 begins to run away. Vinny's full speed, five-six, arms
22 out to here, throws them back, they almost went backward
23 and fell over. I came from this way, Mya came from this
24 way, and Gib was over here making the girls, sure the
25 girls were okay. He went at Mya again, Mya's the bigger
01 one, he's the tough one, he's more worried about him than
02 me. He went to stab Mya a third time from what I saw.
03 Mya backed up. We needed to get out of here, something
04 is going to happen, this kid is going to do something
05 stupid. We all started to walk, turnaround and walk
06 away. I looked at Gib, was talking to the girls, asking
07 them are you okay, are you okay, he's looking at them
08 like this. I watch Vin over here run full speed, knife
09 sticking sticking out, punching him right here on the
10 lip. Drops a three-hundred-eighty-pound man on the
11 ground like nothing. I mean, Gib's three hundred eighty
12 pounds, big kid. Hits the ground.
13 Q. So I understand the police are called?
14 A. Police are called.
15 Q. Police respond?
16 A. I don't know who called them. I think Mike said
17 he did, Gleason. And police --
18 Q. Okay, police, did the police arrive?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Was anybody arrested?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did Gib go to the hospital?
23 A. Yep.
24 Q. Did you go to the hospital to see him?
25 A. Yep.
01 Q. Did you end up going home that night?
02 A. Yep.
03 Q. Okay. Did, when is the next time that any of the
04 people you now know heard or had any type of incident
05 with Vinny?
06 A. Later on that morning.
07 Q. What happened?
08 A. I mean, Sunday morning.
09 Q. What did you hear about or learn about?
10 A. Went to Alstead later that night to hang out with
11 some friends, came back to town, got to my house at four-
12 thirty in the morning. Ben left my house the, about four
13 forty-five, got home at five, and left for a ball game at
14 seven in the morning, Boston Red Sox. Within those two
15 hours, they got home between five and seven a.m. in the
16 morning. Vinny and them were driving around waiting for
17 him to get home, slashed the tires on his truck.
18 Q. How did you learn that, Ben's truck?
19 A. Ben called me in the morning and called Jordan and
20 texted a bunch of us.
21 Q. Did Ben go, end up going to the ball game on
23 A. No.
24 Q. Eventually did he go to the baseball game?
25 A. No, I don't think so. Ben wasn't at the ball
02 Q. Not the softball field; did he go to the --
03 A. Oh, yeah, he went to the Red Sox game. Sorry.
04 Q. So he was the lucky one.
05 A. He went to the Red Sox game. I talked to him
06 right before he went. What he said to me, Tristan, I
07 talked to him this morning, and he said, he called me up,
08 he said, hey, having a nice day? Pretty much indicating
09 that obviously I'm going to have a bad day. I just got
10 my tires slashed.
11 Q. This is Ben telling you Vinny had called Ben?
12 A. Yes, and Vinny ended up telling him, he said word
13 for word, I'm going to find every person that was up
14 there that day, and I'm going to find all of them, I'm
15 going to kill them, and rape their mothers.
16 Q. Did you have contact with Vinny Sunday?
17 A. After I had heard all that stuff from Ben, I tried
18 calling his phone. He hung up. I tried calling again,
19 he hung up. Four times. I called one more time, he hung
21 Q. How are you feeling right now?
22 A. Pretty upset, pretty irritated. My girl friend
23 wants to move out of my home, and also scared. My girl
24 friend wants to move out. I'll about ready to move out
25 of my place. I can't afford it right now because
01 somebody wants to come from Boston and tear all our lives
02 up, because that's what he's looking to do, for trouble,
03 he's looking for, that's what I see, you come breaking in
04 homes, houses, you pull out knives, you do the things
05 this kid does, he was looking for it.
06 A. Do you know Kyle Bolaski?
07 A. Yeah.
08 Q. How do you know Kyle?
09 A. Corey, his younger brother, is in my class in
10 school, went to school with him my whole life. Kyle is
11 only two years older than me.
12 Q. So how would you describe your relationship with
14 A. Friends.
15 Q. And Corey?
16 A. Friends, really good friends.
17 Q. Do you know Jerry Ucci?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. How, what's your relationship with Jerry?
20 A. I don't know if you'd call us friends. I only met
21 Jerry a few times before this, this incident. He was
22 friend, a nice kid, I just don't know his background,
23 enough about him.
24 Q. If you know, before Sunday, did Kyle know Vinny?
25 A. No.
01 Q. Did Corey know Vinny?
02 A. No.
03 Q. Did Jerry know Vinny?
04 A. No.
05 Q. Okay. Kyle, Corey, or Jerry, before Sunday,
06 before involved in any way in the stuff that was going
08 A. As far as I know, I mean, Springfield's a little
09 town, everyone hears what happens, so I'm sure he heard
10 what happened, and I knew that they had heard what
11 happened. They, they called me that afternoon.
12 Q. So who called you?
13 A. Kyle.
14 Q. And what happened in that conversation?
15 A. I had, we had all went to town. Michelle had to
16 bring Jordan a change of clothes. Gib had to go to his
17 house. I had to go to my dad's to get mail. Came back
18 to the house, Michelle was in the driveway. Michelle was
19 in the driveway. Michelle's car was in the driveway, and
20 so I knew she was already back. And they came driving
21 right by me, right in front of my house on Sunday
22 afternoon, and screaming, yelling, fuck you, we're going
23 to get you. I had called Michelle, I said, lock that
24 door, they are back. And I didn't know what to think. I
25 followed them down right past my house. I turned around
01 right in my driveway and followed them down to Jiffy
02 Mart. They pulled in Jiffy Mart gas station, came
03 around, because it has a roundabout, came behind me. I
04 said, forget it, I took off by the post office, went by
05 the, some back roads. Also then by the time I got back
06 to my house, Michelle was outside. What do we do. Are
07 they coming? I said I don't understand. I was standing
08 there, I get a call, Kyle, answered it, I said what's up?
09 I was pretty much in tears. He says what's going on? I
10 said this kid's driving by my house, I don't know if you
11 heard what's going on, Vinny, kid's driving by my house
12 threatening me and Michelle, I know he's coming back,
13 we're on Tribow Road in Chester. And he said he'd be
14 over, and it's pretty much all he said. I hung up.
15 Q. When -- in that conversation with Kyle, did he let
16 you know that he knew that there had been some bad blood?
17 A. No, no.
18 Q. No. Did you know that Kyle was going to call you?
19 A. No.
20 Q. So it was just a call essentially out of blue?
21 A. Um-hum.
22 Q. Yes?
23 A. Um-hum, yes, yes, yes.
24 Q. Did Kyle come and pick you up?
25 A. Yep.
01 Q. In what vehicle?
02 A. It was Corey who picked me up, actually. Corey
03 was driving, Kyle was in the -- Corey was driving, Kyle
04 was in the passenger seat, and Jerry Ucci was in the back
05 with Kyle's dog.
06 Q. Did you get in the car?
07 A. Yep.
08 Q. Or the truck?
09 A. Yep.
10 Q. Whose truck was it?
11 A. Corey's.
12 Q. All right. And about what time of day is it?
13 A. Early afternoon or mid afternoon, sometime between
14 eleven and two, I want to say, sometime around there.
15 Q. Do you then drive around for awhile with those
16 three other guys?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Do you discuss with them what is going on?
19 A. Oh, yeah, yes.
20 Q. Yes? Do you tell them the details of what is
21 going on?
22 A. Yeah, I told them what had happened.
23 Q. Okay. Could you tell if they had heard anything
24 about it beforehand?
25 A. Yeah, they knew, they had told me they knew what
01 happened, they had heard of him.
02 Q. And had they heard about the Springfield incident
03 where Gib had been --
04 A. That's where most of them heard, most of it from
05 that incident.
06 Q. They had heard about that from --
07 A. Because, I mean, Thursday night, only came over,
08 there is no real problem that night, just met him.
09 Saturday was the day everybody heard about.
10 Q. Did you tell them about what had happened to Ben?
11 A. Getting his tires slashed, yes, yes.
12 Q. Did you tell them what Ben had said, what Vinny
13 said he was going to do?
14 A. Yep.
15 Q. Where are you guys driving around?
16 A. We went back roads, Tribow Road.
17 Q. What else are you doing in the vehicle?
18 A. We are driving around. They had a few beers and a
19 pint of vodka in the car. They were taking a few shots,
20 had a few beers. I don't know how much they were
21 drinking that day. I just got to the car. We drove
22 around, back roads, drove to Springfield, and went to
23 T-Birds, then started going, coming back to Chester. We
24 have came back towards Chester. We had passed a cop on
25 Chester Road, and Corey got pretty upset, didn't know
01 what to do.
02 Q. What was he upset about?
03 A. Well, they had been drinking a little bit. I
04 don't know if he knew whether he'd blow numbers or not.
05 I mean, he had open container in the car. From what I
06 know, Jerry had pot in the car. And they wanted to get
07 out of there. So we took right, when you get off Chester
08 Road, there's a dirt road right to your right, Green
09 Mountain Turnpike Road, I think it's called. We took
10 that, went back out by Tribow Road, back out in those
11 roads to North Springfield. Decided to go to Gib's house
12 and call Gib and see if he'd come pick us up so we could
13 drive the truck there, didn't want to drive around in the
14 truck anymore. Obviously we couldn't get ahold of Gib.
15 I talked to Jordan, she was at my house with Michelle.
16 She said Michelle was really upset, she was scared that
17 the kid was coming back.
18 That point I want to say before we went to
19 Gib's, Jerry had placed the call to Kirby's phone and
20 talked to Vinny. He asked to use my phone, how can I get
21 ahold of him? I don't know, he was with Kirby, Kirby has
22 a cell phone, obviously, let me see, here you go. Called
23 up Kirby's phone, and said Kirby, let me talk to Vinny.
24 From what I know, she said he's not around, because he
25 was, like, what do you mean, you guys just drove by
01 Tristan's house, you were just with him, he's always
02 with him, let me talk to Vinny, I want to meet him. And
03 she's telling him no, and no. They started yelling a
04 little bit louder. Jerry is like, Kirby, don't play
05 games with me -- he went to school in Chester with Kirby,
06 we went to school in Springfield. He told her several
07 times, don't play games with me, I want to know where he
08 is, I want to talk to him. And everything stopped. Is
09 this Vinny? She put him on the phone. And he had talked
10 to him, Vinny, and he said I want to talk to you, I want
11 to meet you, Vinny, I want to meet you, I want to know
12 why you're pulling out knives on people, why you're
13 breaking into peoples' houses, why you are stealing
14 stuff, why you threatening friends, why you slashing
15 tires, basically why are you doing all this? And Vinny
16 was yelling, from what I know, come to me, come to my
17 house, which is Julie, again, Julie's, come on, Summer
18 Street. And Jerry said I'm not going to come to your
19 house, that's stupid. And Jerry had already previously
20 talked to Tim Arbuckle on the phone, one of his friends
21 which was already down at the ball field because he just
22 got done playing a softball game, and he had told him
23 what was going on. Tim had heard about this Vinny guy
24 just like everyone. And Tim's pretty well known as a
25 fighter. He's an older guy, I don't know him very well,
01 but I heard stories, and I guess he said to Jerry, let
02 him come down here, we got a bunch of people down here at
03 a ball game, public place, if he wants to come down here
04 start something, that's his deal, who's stupid enough to
05 come to a public place and start problems.
06 Q. Tristan, did anyone ask Tim Arbuckle to help in
07 confronting Vinny?
08 A. There was no, let's beat this kid up, let's kill
09 him, there was no talk of this.
10 Q. Was there any offer of money?
11 A. No.
12 Q. To Tristan?
13 A. No.
14 Q. I mean to Tim Arbuckle?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Was it conveyed, told to Vinny to meet at the ball
18 A. At this point, when Vinny was telling him to meet
19 him at his house, Jerry decided, well, ain't going to
20 meet you at the house, the ball field.
21 Q. Tristan, was it conveyed to Vinny to meet at the
22 ball field?
23 A. That's what I just said. He said, yes, meet me at
24 the ball field.
25 Q. Okay. Did you at some point change vehicles you
01 were in, Corey's truck at some point, did you change
03 A. Yes.
04 Q. When did that happen?
05 A. After the phone calls, driving those back roads,
06 we were at Gib's house and called Gib. He couldn't pick
07 us up because we couldn't get ahold of him. We decided,
08 I think before we pulled to Gib's, Corey didn't want to
09 drive anymore, I'm so bored. I said, all right, I can
10 drive. I was already driving at that point to Gib's. We
11 left Gib's, I drove the truck back to their house, back
12 to their apartment building in Chester. We got to their
13 apartment building. The reason we went there is because
14 the truck was obviously hot, they knew the cops had seen
15 it and because pretty much out of gas. We pulled in
16 there, and they decided to get Kyle's truck.
17 Q. I need to interrupt you. I guess I'm not clear,
18 what is the concern about the police having seen the
20 A. Because we passed them and speeding.
21 Q. Did you get waved by police?
22 A. No, just worried, he braked a little bit, he was
23 worried that he turned around. Most cops do.
24 Q. So you arrived, then, at the Bolaski residence in
25 Chester to change vehicles?
01 A. Yep.
02 Q. And what vehicle do you get in at this point?
03 A. Kyle's truck.
04 Q. All right. Now, when you were riding around in
05 Corey's truck, were there any guns in the car?
06 A. Yeah.
07 Q. How many?
08 A. One.
09 Q. Do you know what kind?
10 A. Honestly, I want to say, I want to say .22. I'm
11 not honestly entirely sure but --
12 Q. When you get to the Bolaski residence, does
13 someone go and get another gun?
14 A. Yeah, there was talk in the car, Corey, he had
15 said to me, Tristan, you want a gun to bring to your
16 house? I said, didn't really give him an answer. I said
17 I don't know how to load a gun, I'm not a hunter, I don't
18 know how to load one. For me to take one home is pretty
19 skeptical. Corey wanted me to have protection in my
20 house if and when they had dropped me off that afternoon.
21 If that had never happened, they had got to my house, he
22 would have said, Tristan, you want to bring this inside?
23 That's when I would have decided yes or no.
24 Q. So the second gun gets into Kyle's truck, was the
25 thought that it would be available for you if you wanted
02 A. For protection, yeah, at my house, which I
03 explained to him, I'm not felon, I can go buy a gun, I
04 don't need yours, Corey.
05 Q. Do the four of you again then head to the ball
07 A. Yeah, because we were, I was talking to Michelle,
08 I got in Kyle's truck, Kyle got in. Jerry got in.
09 Talking to Tim, then Corey was walking down with the gun
10 out of his apartment, and he got in. That's when we took
11 off and started coming in the middle of Chester. They
12 had wanted some more, they had wanted some more beer, and
13 they were going to go to the store to buy some more, and
14 I said that I had some beer at my house, you guys could
15 have that. I don't drink. Michelle drinks, there's
16 probably twelve-pack there you can have, you guys can
17 have it. I again pass my house and pull into Jiffy Mart.
18 We were going to turn around. You can see the house from
19 Jiffy Mart. We were getting ready to leave Jiffy Mart.
20 He got a call, I want to say it was on Kyle's phone, Kyle
21 got a call from Mike Gleason, and Vinny had just drove
22 down to Mike Gleason's house, actually pulled in his
23 driveway or like in front of his house because Gib's car
24 was there. And Jordan was there, as well. Mike had told
25 Gib to run in the house.
01 Q. Tristan, we're covering some ground that we've
02 been over. Did you guys go to the ball field?
03 A. Yep.
04 Q. Okay. So who was driving?
05 A. Corey driving Kyle's truck. Yeah.
06 Q. Who was, had Corey been driving Corey's truck
07 earlier in the day?
08 A. Yeah.
09 Q. And driving, is it that Corey?
10 A. I want to say Corey. I'm not, I want to say Corey
11 drove Kyle's truck. Kyle may have, but I think Corey
13 Q. It's Kyle, Corey, Jerry and --
14 A. Me.
15 Q. You and the dog?
16 A. Yep.
17 Q. You get to the ball field; where do you park?
18 A. Right, there's a parking lot up top, you drive
19 down on to the side of the ball field, they had a tent
20 down there with a grill, and then having a barbecue and a
21 bunch of cars on the field.
22 Q. Does Gib drive to the ball field?
23 A. Yep, Gib showed up with Jordan.
24 Q. Does he park near you?
25 A. He parks down there, yeah.
01 Q. When you arrive, what do you do?
02 A. Kyle and Jerry got out of the truck, and me and
03 Corey were sitting there. I said, sorry, I'm scared, I
04 don't know what to think right now, this kid is going to
05 come here and do something. No one thought he was going
06 to do, no one thought he was going to do anything. No
07 one thought he was as crazy as I knew he was.
08 Q. Other people didn't think he was as crazy as you
09 thought he was?
10 A. Yep, and just, all Corey could say to me, don't
11 worry, don't worry, he's not going to do anything.
12 Q. Corey, Jerry and Vinny haven't had face-to-face
14 A. Corey, Kyle, Jerry haven't had any interaction
15 with Vinny yet.
16 Q. What did you say?
17 A. Just Corey and Jerry.
18 Q. Okay, Corey, Kyle and Jerry. At some point does
19 another vehicle arrive with Vinny in?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. How long had you been at the ball field before
22 that other car arrived?
23 A. Oh, five, ten minutes.
24 Q. Do you know what Kyle was doing during that five
25 to ten minutes?
01 A. Standing there. Like all of us.
02 Q. Any alcohol consumed at that point?
03 A. No. Yeah, by all the people down there drinking
04 the keg.
05 Q. All the softball players?
06 A. That gave statements.
07 Q. What was Corey doing?
08 A. Standing there.
09 Q. Jerry?
10 A. Standing.
11 Q. No one got out the guns?
12 A. The truck was locked.
13 Q. Did you see Tim Arbuckle?
14 A. Yeah, he was in the softball game.
15 Q. Were people talking to Tim?
16 A. There was a whole softball, a whole softball game
17 there. There was ladies, there was kids there.
18 Q. Okay. What happens after the car pulls in
19 in which Vinny is riding?
20 A. He gets, he pulled in, up at the parking lot,
21 which is a little ways up in the field, and he gets out
22 of the car. He's let off the stun gun, the Tazer,
23 lighting it. And Tim Arbuckle, saw him up there, there
24 he is, there he is, and telling Tim, and Tim's like,
25 well, he goes, get me a baseball bat.
01 Q. Who said that?
02 A. Tim, get me fucking baseball bat. No one gave him
03 one. I don't know why there wasn't one there. There was
04 just a call, he can't get one. He decided I'll go
05 walking up there. He looked up at him and saw what a big
06 boy. Come here with that, shove that right up your F-ing
08 Q. What happened, what happens next?
09 A. Tim kept approaching to go up there, kept walking
10 up there, and Tim ahead, Kyle and Jerry are behind him,
11 me and Gib and Jordan are right here. All the people are
12 behind us. They kind of approach here, Tim was ahead,
13 Kyle was a little behind Tim, then Jerry. The more they
14 walked up, the more Tim got closer, the more everyone
15 else kind of stayed back. The closer behind Tim was
16 Kyle, he got right up to the corner of that fence. He
17 said it again, pointed right at him. When I get there,
18 I'm going to shove the fucking thing up your ass. When
19 he said to him, hey, I heard that kid -- what I left out,
20 when he was in the field, he said, Tristan, I'm going to
21 fucking kill you.
22 Q. This Vinny?
23 A. Tim yelled up to him about the Tazer, and they
24 started walking up there, and he got right there to when
25 he said that to him, and he reached down on the floor of
01 that car and pulled out a splitting maul axe and started
02 running full speed, put the axe behind his back like
03 this, and he's running, and this kid, two hundred fifty,
04 three hundred pounds, never seen someone move that fast.
05 Q. Where's he headed?
06 A. Headed right after Time, was Tim was quick, he saw
07 it, quickly turned around. Tim was the first one to see
08 it because he's the closest. By the time I turned
09 around, started running, Kyle was like, whoa, this guy's
10 got an axe. Tim was running by him, so it just left
11 Kyle, well, the closest one to Vinny was Kyle. The only
12 reason I think Vinny excluded Kyle out because he was the
14 Q. What happens?
15 A. He started to chase Kyle. He was chasing all of
16 us, and me and Gib and a few of us ran to the left.
17 People ran over here. This lady was screaming about her
18 kids, she said this can't be going on here. And I just
19 remember her saying that so perfectly. I was worried
20 this kid's down there, everybody, this guy's coming full
21 speed with an axe. He runs down there, I ran, there was
22 a, like a little creek, a little stream that runs down
23 there. Some bushes that I hid behind. I was looking
24 through the bushes. When I looked back, Kyle was getting
25 up off the ground, and that kid was getting ready to
01 swing that axe. Kyle got up and started walking around,
02 started running around the truck. At that point he swung
03 the axe once, twice, three times. I didn't see it break
04 the window, but I saw him hit three times, that truck.
05 He was, put that axe through that truck and pulled it
06 back out. You wouldn't believe the hole. It wasn't
07 like, like an axe, you put it in something, pull it out.
08 No, he was pulling the whole thing in, pulling it back
09 out. This was a pencil in this guy's hands and --
10 Q. What happened next?
11 A. I started running, said forget this, he looks over
12 at me, he already met me. And Gib, he knows me, he
13 doesn't even know Kyle. He sees me over here by myself.
14 He could chase the people he wants, I said I'm running.
15 I started returning up the side of the ball field out
16 towards the road, and that's when I heard the gunshots.
17 I can't honestly remember how much I heard, but this was
18 three, four, two, I heard gunshots.
19 Q. Did the shoots all sound the same to you?
20 A. No, you heard the 30-06 first, way louder, then
21 you heard the .22, sounded said like a BB gun.
22 Q. And then any more 30-06?
23 A. I don't honestly remember. I mean it's such --
24 Q. Did you actually see --
25 A. No.
01 Q. -- Vinny get shot? No?
02 A. No.
03 Q. Did you actually see who shot him?
04 A. Nope.
05 Q. You made a comment earlier that the truck was
06 locked after you got out of it at the ball field?
07 A. As far as I knew, yeah. Because also when Kyle
08 was running up to the truck, he was yelling to Corey,
09 could hear him, unlock the door, yelling to him, so as
10 far as I knew, the truck was locked unless the passenger
11 side, unless the driver's side was locked and the
12 passenger side wasn't. One locked and one wasn't.
13 Q. So you heard more than one gunshot?
14 A. Um.
15 Q. The first one was loud?
16 A. Yeah.
17 Q. You didn't see who shot?
18 A. I was running.
19 Q. So what's the last image of the scene that you had
20 before you take off?
21 A. When I turned around and ran back and seeing him
22 laying there.
23 Q. All right. So before you take off, what's your
24 last image, the last thing you remember seeing?
25 A. Him hitting that truck.
01 Q. And you leave at this point?
02 A. After he was hitting the truck, I ran up, then I
03 ran, back saw him laying there.
04 Q. When you came back, he's already on the ground?
05 A. Um-hum.
06 Q. Where in relation to Kyle's truck is he?
07 A. Honestly, up towards the front. He was on the
08 ground not too far away from the truck. I want to say
09 more towards the front end of it, I want to say the
10 driver's side, too, but I'm not sure.
11 Q. How close?
12 A. It was such a quick, I turned around, I saw him
13 laying there, I said I'm out of here. I didn't know if
14 he got, swung the axe, I don't know if somebody shot him.
15 Q. Why did you run back?
16 A. Because I wanted to know what happened. I don't
17 know if he got someone with the axe, and then he shot
18 them, I wanted, needed to know. I, all I saw was him
19 laying there. I still didn't know if Corey and Kyle were
21 Q. Did you see the axe at any point after you heard
22 the gunshots?
23 A. He had the axe right next to him the whole time.
24 Q. After he's on the ground?
25 A. It was right there on the ground.
01 Q. How much time do you think passed between, between
02 the two loud gunshots?
03 A. You mean --
04 Q. The first shot?
05 A. From the first one, .22, and then one after? Like
06 I said before, I don't remember honestly the one after.
07 I remember hearing the gunshots. I heard the 30-06
08 first. It's way louder than the .22. Then I heard a BB
09 gun. I don't honestly remember after that. I just heard
11 Q. Is it fair to say, then, in terms of where Vinny
12 was and where Kyle was after Kyle gets the gun, you don't
13 have, you didn't observe that?
14 A. No, I, when I came running back, I even, didn't
15 even see Kyle or Corey anywhere.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. Kyle, Corey, the only one I saw was Gib. I kept
18 yelling to him, what are you doing standing there? Why
19 aren't you running?
20 Q. After Vinny was on the ground, did you see anyone
21 go up to him and hit, kick, do anything?
22 A. I heard about it, but I didn't see it.
23 Q. So if these folks have questions for you, they
24 have the opportunity to ask, and I may have some
25 follow-ups, as well.
01 A. Um-hum.
02 JUROR: Were the guns already loaded when
03 you guys left the house, the apartment?
04 THE WITNESS: They were loaded, but they
05 were unloaded before we got there. One of them was, at
06 least. Because when they showed up, they were unloaded,
07 and Kyle loaded it in front of me when Corey asked me if
08 I wanted to bring it in for protection to my house, Kyle
09 had showed me how to load it. I don't know how to load a
10 gun. This is how you load it. Left it loaded. Corey
11 said don't need it loaded in the car. What do you mean?
12 If you get pulled over, can't unload it. At this point,
13 pretty much at this point we unloaded it in case we got
14 pulled over. When we got to the field, the other one
15 that Corey had at the house, I don't know if it was
16 loaded. I'm assuming it was because that's the one Corey
17 grabbed when he was swinging at him with an axe. I doubt
18 he had time to load a gun. I'm assuming that was loaded.
19 The, another one was unloaded.
20 JUROR: When you were running away from
21 Vince, did you happen to see what became of Jordan?
22 THE WITNESS: Jordan, when he first
23 started running at us with the axe, he ran after Tim.
24 Jordan was standing right there with Gib. He overheard
25 him say something. I didn't hear what he said. Then he
01 ran right by her, Jordan. I don't know where she went.
02 I remember she had gotten grabbed because she tried to go
03 out, Kyle, she tried to stop him from shooting him. He
04 tried, it was instant reaction for her to do that,
05 someone grabbed her. From what I know, Kristina Morgan's
06 boyfriend picked her up on the shoulder and pulled her in
07 the car.
08 JUROR: Did you see her, I don't know,
09 when you were running, did you see, I don't know how to
10 put it, did you see anything happen to her at all?
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 JUROR: Was there, was there anyone in the
13 truck when Vinny was hitting it with the axe?
14 THE WITNESS: His dog.
15 JUROR: Just the dog?
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah, the dog was flipping
17 out. Smashed the window first, which I didn't see.
18 Because I was running. When I turned around in the
19 bushes, already smashed the window. That's when I saw
20 him hit the truck three times, put the hole in the door.
21 I can remember the dog was flipping out.
22 JUROR: How big a dog is it?
23 THE WITNESS: Not very big. Can't
24 remember what mix it is, but it's only, only about this
25 big. It's like, I want to say like a Golden Retriever
01 and Sheltie. It's really kind of a dog, not like a pit
02 bull or Rottweiler. It's not very big dog, about this
03 big, full grown.
04 JUROR: When Vinny was swinging at the
05 truck, where was the other two guys that were in the
06 pickup with you?
07 THE WITNESS: That's the problem, I wasn't
08 looking at anyone else. I was looking at him smashing
09 that truck. When he was doing that, I decided if he
10 looks over at me so --
11 JUROR: They weren't there.
12 THE WITNESS: They weren't there. Gib and
13 Jordan and I run this way. Corey, Kyle, Jerry ran that
14 way. He secluded Kyle out of that. I can't picture
15 where Corey and Jerry Ucci were. I remember after I ran
16 away from the ball field, Jerry was already half way up
17 the road, so I think he left early. I think Jerry took
18 right off when the gunshots were going on. He was, after
19 I had already run back and seeing him laying there, and
20 then came to the road, Jerry was way up the road, head
21 down, blood on him. He was walking, what are you going?
22 We taking him down to Corey's parents' apartment.
23 JUROR: So the plan was to meet up with
24 this guy, the idea was that it would be better to be
25 public place, and you would be in public place with a
01 bunch of people, and you would, you had guns there, and
02 there were guns in the car?
03 THE WITNESS: Yeah, they were in the car.
04 JUROR: So you were, you were not going
05 to -- you thought that this would alleviate violence to
06 go in a public place?
07 THE WITNESS: Two ways to look at it. You
08 could go winging it to come down to a public place, Six
09 Flags, start shooting stuff, you have stuff happens every
10 day, high school shootings, or you could say it was
11 better for six of us met in the middle of woods, and he'd
12 put us to rest. There was no one to call the cops, no
13 one there to do anything.
14 JUROR: So you, you, you didn't choose the
15 public --
16 THE WITNESS: I didn't choose it. Jerry
18 JUROR: The idea wasn't to choose a public
19 place to stop the violence; the idea was that it might,
20 you would all be a little bit safer?
21 THE WITNESS: We'll be safer if something
22 was to happen, if this kid did do something that,
23 something, the cops would be called, someone, someone
24 safety in numbers, basically, more people there, more
25 people can do something about it.
01 JUROR: Or if it didn't hurt anybody,
02 maybe other people would be hurt?
03 THE WITNESS: No.
04 JUROR: Apart from the group?
05 THE WITNESS: At that, he, at that
06 point -- I'm not sure, they were looking at safety in
07 numbers, once again, if you're down there, this kid did
08 what he did, one calls the cops, once got the cops there,
09 Jerry said we'll come to your house, right on the front
10 lawn, or meet us this back road in the middle of nowhere
11 in the woods. Had us there and chopped us up with
12 an axe, would anyone know for a day or two, two, three
13 days later, probably not, it seems like a safer place to
14 deal with the situation. And at that point, there was no
15 talk from me. Jerry, Kyle -- let's go get this kid,
16 let's go fucking kill him -- there was no talk of that.
17 Basically the talk was why is this kid doing this? He
18 can't be doing this. We had already heard of other
19 places he had broken in town. We already heard of the
20 disorderly conduct up at Bellows Falls Hospital, all of
21 the things he'd done. We looked up his record. We have
22 seen what kind of kid this is. And they looked at it as
23 smarter place, going to the ball field, be safer in
25 JUROR: But after knowing what kind of
01 record he had, you still made the mind up to go down
02 there anyway?
03 THE WITNESS: Now, when I look over
04 sitting on my couch, and I see someone standing in my
05 house -- I went down, unlocked the doctor because my
06 friend was coming over, that's the only reason the door
07 was unlocked -- you look over, someone breaks in your
08 house, three times your size, you know, you can't sleep
09 at night, my girl friend wants to move out of my
10 apartment, I can't afford another apartment, house, right
11 now. We have to think of this every night, morning, we
12 can hardly sleep after this incident. We expect
13 retaliation from family. I hate to tell you, something
14 needed to be done. I'm not happy he's dead, no, but can
15 I sleep at night? Yes. Something was going to happen,
16 he was coming back.
17 JUROR: You don't think the law would help
19 THE WITNESS: The law didn't. When he
20 punched Gib out with a knife in his hands.
21 I broke a kid's jaw because he had a metal
22 bat, self-defense, I got off, self-defense because he had
23 a metal, metal bat in his hand. He had a metal bat in
24 his hands, I swung, I broke his jaw. I got off
25 self-defense after a year and a half in court.
01 That's aggravated assault, at the least
02 it's simple assault. I told those cops that day several
03 times this kid's bleeding from his lip, you could see he
04 just got punched. That kid admitted to punching him.
05 No, they told us that day, calm down, you guys have had a
06 rough time, don't fill out the statements tonight, bring
07 them back tomorrow. Now in this case they say why didn't
08 you bring those statements that night? Well, we would
09 have if you didn't tell us to bring them in Sunday.
10 JUROR: You feel when you, before you were
11 riding around at the ball game, you said you weren't
12 drinking, that's why you were driving, I don't drink a
13 lot. Were there some of you doing drugs?
14 THE WITNESS: There was some smoking pot.
15 JUROR: Just pot?
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I am on Percocet, as
17 it is. I'm on the prescribed to me, but as far as them
18 smoking pot, they were drinking. I don't drink.
19 JUROR: Tristan, what would you say the
20 attitude of everyone was as getting into the ball field
21 and getting out of the vehicle.
22 THE WITNESS: I was scared. Corey seemed
23 calm and collected like nothing was going to happen. And
24 Jerry and Kyle little rowdy.
25 JUROR: How about as people are starting
01 to head up towards the vehicle, they, where Julie and
02 Kirby were?
03 THE WITNESS: Tim was ready, pretty much,
04 to fight.
05 JUROR: The other people with you guys
06 that what changed people's attitude?
07 THE WITNESS: Everyone said back when they
08 saw him up with the Tazer realizing this kid was here to
09 do something. Tim, he wanted to approach him. The was
10 the tough guy. And what I had thought that day, I mean,
11 I wanted it to come to an end. I wanted fifty people to
12 walk up in this guy's face, say you can't be doing this,
13 this is not what can happen, people need to be able to
14 sleep at nighttime, go back to Boston, for all we care,
15 do something else other than bother us. That's not what
16 was happening.
17 JUROR: Thank you.
18 MR. SAND: Tristan, thank you very much.
19 JUROR: Thank you, Tristan.
20 THE WITNESS: Yep.